I have a patch of Zoysia and it is the easiest to maintain (out of my 3 types of grass i have) in the summer, im guessing in Fl it would be the natural choice. Hopefully someone with a bit more knowledge can respond better.

Check out Yukon Bermuda, it is very cold tolerant (for Bermuda) and requires less water than most cultivars. Of course it needs plenty of fertilizer and many mowings. Zoysia is going to be less work. I would advise against rototilling, as it will make your new lawn very bumpy, which isn't a good thing, especially with Bermuda.

Here's the deal -- That was the coldest winter in 30+ years.... It SNOWED!!!! in Central FLORIDA!!!!

That *Never* happens... (I grew up and lived in S. Florida for 30 years)

So... St. Augustine hybrids are an Awesome choice for most of Florida -- It grows thick and strong during the long hot, humid, wet summers.... It spreads fast and repairs quickly... Pretty good against bugs and fungus.... Did I mention it puts up with 70+" of rain a year? It may be worth the occasional once in 25 years dieback...

But... if you are totally against it -- Bermuda will certainly fit the bill... I would look into one of the Sodded Hybrids rather than a seeded cultivar -- it is much thicker, hardier, deals with drought and rain and cold and hot while maintaining a good looking turf appearance....

That said -- Bermuda is a nightmare to keep out of flower beds and mulched rings around trees... It sends stolons underground... You will see sprigs of Bermuda popping up 10' away from your lawn.... Start pulling it up -- yep... That's just your lawn creeping....

Best of luck

John

I would go with Zoysia, BUT, check with the local growers to make sure it will grow where you live without many incidents. I've heard some insects will devastate some Zoysia cultivars. The turfgrass in Disney World in Orlando is Emerald Zoysia.

Leave bermuda at the golf course, it is too much work as a residential lawn (to make it look like fresh sod)

I don't particular like the looks of St. Augustine, it kind of reminds me of crabgrass.

Zenith and Meyer Zoysia are very cold tolerant and good looking, check with the local growers to see if the have it and if it will grow in your neck of woods.

Thanks for the feedback and suggestions.

Because we have full sun, sticking with St. Augustine is not an option. On the north side of our house, for the first 6 feet out, it looked GREAT. But that was because it was shaded most of the time.

In my 2 years of taking care of this lawn, I believe that my St. Augustine (that's in full sun) needs to get water at a minimum of 3 times a week, to keep the blades from closing up. Either rain or the irrigation. (at least this is with my yard, your results may vary) And because we're on city water, I'd like to avoid that if I can.

I'm originally from Vermont, so I agree on St. Augustine looking like crabgrass. I like the looks of smaller blades of grass, because that's what I'm used to I guess.

But again... my concern is how much water this is going to require; Zoysia vs. Bermuda
From what I've read, I get the feeling that Bermuda can look good with less water that Zoysia. True?

As far as Bermuda being "a lot of work". Such as what? weed and bug control? Watering? In realize I will probably have to mow every 4-5 days or so. I can handle that. But what is most important is; how often will I need to water Bermuda or Zoysia, in full sun... compared to St. Augustine?

Thanks.

Now I'm reading that something called "sting nematode" is a problem for Bermuda grass in Florida. How much of a problem?

The answer to the question about Nematodes would be at your local UF Extension office... It probably depends on your location and specific culture...

I am surprised you are having trouble with S.A. in the sun -- we have had Flortam for 18+ years and *Never* once had trouble with sun damage... If you keep it watered and fertilized -- it will grow 6"+ per week through the hottest parts of the summer and choke out every weed and fill in every bare spot...

We did have quite a bit of trouble with white grubs leaving big brown patches... Standard treatments worked very well, and the grass recovered in a few months...

The Bermuda is *Very* drought resistant... The only grasses that are more drought resistant are some of the western prarie grasses (That don't grow very fast or super dense and don't handle traffic well)

The "High Maintenance" comment -- Bermuda is a lawn that requires a lot of fertilizing and cutting to keep it looking good... Stop fertilizing and stop cutting it short and frequently -- it gets ugly and patchy and weedy...

An interesting "Experiment" you can do is to fool around with culture to control what grows... Water a lot and cut high (3-4") and you will get St. Augustine filling in your yard over the Bermuda... Mow really short (Thanks

John

I think OP clearly states he does not like SA, which is understandable. Bermuda CAN be high maintenance if you're going for the golf course look. But you can have a decent looking Bermuda lawn w/ basic lawn care like mowing once a week (at a medium setting like 1.5"), water an inch weekly (if no rain), & fertilize every 45 days, and IMHO it will look as good if not better than an SA lawn. As for Zoysia vs. Bermuda, can't comment much other than Zoysia can be very tough on a mower's blade. So if you use a reel mower, expect more frequent sharpening.

After reading all the comments here, and doing quite a bit more research, I think I'm going to seed with Zoysia.

The deciding factor for me was all comments I heard about how Bermuda spreads like crazy. I don't want my flower beds along the house, and the neighbors lawn, taken over by Bermuda.

Florida passed a law last year where HOA's in deed restricted communities could no longer dictate which type of grass to use. Which in FL meant, most everyone was limited to St. Augustine. So now I have the option to do away with the St. Augustine. But, out of respect to my neighbors, I am concerned that the Bermuda would look quite different from the rest of the neighborhood, not to mention invading their lawns. Where as Zoysia, although it will have similar characteristics, it won't be to the extreme that Bermuda would. Or at least that's the impression I get from the research that I've done.

Now I'm down to; where to get the seed? In stores, all I find are the 5-7 lb bags at Lowes. Are they serious? 5lb bags? Online I've found larger bags of Empire Zoysia, but it's all Pennington brand. And I've read a lot of horror stories where little or none of that came up. I've read many more positive comments about Scott's Empire Zoysia. I've got to seed about 10,000 sq. ft. Which is looking like at least 6 bags from Lowes.

The next concern is; I wish I had a better idea on how much water a newly seeded lawn in central Florida will need. I'm going to mulch it with straw. I bought a rain gauge. Would 1" of water in the morning be enough, if I do that every day?

Thanks.

Because we have full sun, sticking with St. Augustine is not an option. On the north side of our house, for the first 6 feet out, it looked GREAT. But that was because it was shaded most of the time.

Ok I am confused. Shade is not full sun. No warm season grass performs better in moderate shade than Saint Augustine. Bermuda will not tolerate shade, and Zoysia depending on the variety will tolerate some light shade. So if you have shady area SA is the best choice.

But again... my concern is how much water this is going to require; Zoysia vs. Bermuda
From what I've read, I get the feeling that Bermuda can look good with less water that Zoysia. True?

In all honesty they are close with Bermuda having a slight edge over Zoysia. However don't be fooled into thinking either Bermuda or Zoysia does not need water to look good because they do. They just need less than SA to look good. Either Bermuda or Zoysia will need watered at least once a week. Otherwise the color will fade, and if it gets real dry will go dormant and turn straw colored.

As far as Bermuda being "a lot of work". Such as what? weed and bug control? Watering?

Depending on the height you keep Bermuda at, the real extra work is mowing. If you keep it around the highest of 1.5 inches you will need to mow about twice a week. If you keep it at 1 inch or less where it is happy, around 3 times a week.

Bermuda is also a very heavy feeder and in Florida requires 6 to 8 fertilizer application per season. You start in early spring just as it greens up, then fertilize every 30 days.

Zoysia only needs mowed about every 7 to 10 days, and no more than 2 fertilizer applications per season. Well in Florida with the extended season you can fertilize 3 times a year but you have to be careful with thatch build up from over fertilizing.

>>Ok I am confused. Shade is not full sun.

I was mentioning that to point out how badly our St. Augustine does in full sun, versus having some shade. The back of the house faces due north, so the first 5-6' behind the house gets some shade. The only shade, in the entire yard. And in the 2 years that we've lived there, that area looks great, and the rest of the St. Augustine looks terrible. Unless it's getting huge amounts of water.

There are other alternatives for establishing turf from seed. I cleared an additional 6000 sq. feet in my back yard 3 years ago (tractor and box blade). The adjoing 4,000 sq. feet is Tif 419 sod. The first year I seeded seashore paspalum (it was fairly expensive). It came in nicely, looked close to bermuda, more shade tolerant. I planted way too late (labor day), so I lost all of it to cold temps. Last year I seeded with Triangle bermuda on memorial day, thinking it would handle shade and drought (some of the area only gets 4 hours full sun) better than 419. It came in beautifully. More coarse than 419 but nice none the less. Along comes Sept and we experience the 2nd most rain in 100 years (after 3 years of drought). The area flooded over 4 feet so I lost 80% of the triangle. Two weeks ago I decided to go a different route. I don't want to cut two heights (fescue would probably do ok) so I seeded with True Putt, creeping blue grass. So far I'm paniced because I see NO germination.

I hope you will look at some of these options based on my experience. Seashore paspalum does very well in Florida (can survive salt water). Good luck! Zoysia is just too slow to establish and may look bad for the first year.

Good luck to you wrager. Planting a cool season grass, in Atlanta, in late spring is pretty much a losing proposition. I mean no offense of course, it's just that there are so many factors against you in summer with a cool season grass. From what I have read you should get germination in 5-7 days under ideal conditions, and it's been two weeks, I would be worried too. I hope it works out, and would love to see pics if it does. Good luck.

Oh boy, this isn't easy.

"So far I'm paniced because I see NO germination"

That's what I'm worried about, that I put all this work into this, and end up with just a yard covered in straw mulch, with NO grass, and a HUGE water bill.

Based on watering in the past, if I water 30 minutes a day, for the first 30 days, I estimate that my water bill will be around $600 for that month. A lot!

But I am willing to do that. I don't want to have to do this twice.

I've got some specific questions:
- if I plant Empire Zoysia seed, will 30 minutes a day watering it, every day, be enough to get it started?

- if Zoysia really does "look badly for the first year", does that equate to; I need to water it frequently that first year?

Here's what I did when I seeded Bermuda. The principles should be the same for Zoysia.

You should water for about 10mins at a time 3 times a day, keeping the soil moist (not flooded) & from drying out. Depending on conditions, seeds should germinate in 7-14 days. Once seeds germinate, change to infrequent and deep watering, meaning start watering longer w/ more time in between watering. As I recall, by month's end I was watering once a week for about an hour per zone. Do a search here on "deep and infrequent watering."

The reason Zoysia will look bad the first year is b/c it's slow to spread, so it will take at least another season to cover. Watering more frequently will only waste water and help the weeds. You were concerned about Bermuda invading your flower beds, now you're seeing the opposite effect w/ planting Zoysia.

Also, I'm not sure about Florida weather, but my guess is if you're gonna do seed this year, you should be starting ASAP. Good luck.

johnb, I forgot to mention. Something for you to think about. If your neighbors have St. Augustine, there's a good chance their lawn will invade your Zoysia lawn. My friend here has a Bermuda lawn (which is more aggressive than Zoysia) and he has problem w/ his neighbor's St. Augustine.

I've got some specific questions:
- if I plant Empire Zoysia seed, will 30 minutes a day watering it, every day, be enough to get it started?

There is no such thing a Empire Zoysia Seed.

Everything talked about here is hybrid grass for which no seed exist. They can only be propagated by vegetative means like sod, sprigs or plugs.

In Zoysia there are only 3 seeded common varieties you can buy that I know of: Panda, Zenith, and Compadre. Otherwise every other variety is sod only.

Saint Augustine there is no seed period, just sod and some plugs.

Bermuda there are quite few common seeded types, but none will match the hybrid varieties in quality and performance.

texas-weed,

From this University of Florida article:
(http://polkhort.ifas.ufl.edu/documents/publications/Zoysiagrass.pdf)

"Empire zoysiagrass is a native proprietary
selection of Zoysia japonica."

John what is your point? There is no such thing as Empire Zoysia grass seed. Try to find some, it is a hybrid.

Any progress updates on this thread? I'm looking at seeding either Zenith Zoysia or Bermuda Triangle this year.