I made some interstem apple trees last spring, B9 on Antonovka with Golden Russet or Bullock on top. Two whip and tongue grafts done at the same time, 90% take. 6" or so of interstem. They've grown well, now are around 3' tall. I don't have any cropping experience since they are so young still. Planning on making a bunch more next year.

Zen. From reading your post it appears that we have a similar interest in interstem grafting. As you have already discovered there are only bits and pieces of information online. You might want to look at this website.

http://turkeysong.wordpress.com/2010/07/20/interstem-grafting-of-apples-small-trees-big-roots/

Harvestman has shared with me some of his vast knowledge about different rootstocks and the vigor of spur and none spur apple varieties. My opinion is that in some cases you may get the results wanted simply by grafting scion from a spur apple onto M111. On the same topic I have a few interstems growing with approximately 15â interstems. It appears that the length of interstem also plays a role in how much dwarfing you will get. I will post some updated picture later for anyone that is interested. Good luck, Bill

Jesse: Thanks for sharing your experience. Based on your success and Bill's I was going to do both grafts at the same time as well. I hadn't heard as much about interstems on Antonovka, but that is an interesting thought as well. I have one of those median sections between the sidewalk in front of my house and the street that is about 3 feet wide and currently just grass. I was thinking of sticking a few apple trees in there and maybe the Antonovka would do a better job getting its roots down further in that limited area... hmmm.

Bill: Thanks for sharing your experience as well. I had actually seen your blog posts and found it was one of the more detailed descriptions out there. How has your harvest gone this year? Any thoughts on using any of the G rootstocks for the interstem and burying that graft to reduce the suckers? Are you considering the dwarf G rootstocks at all and if not is there any particular reason I should avoid them for interstems?

Since the connection to the scion was mentioned, I should add that I'm looking to try an Arkansas Black and an Ashmead's Kernel for full sized apples, then wanted to try a Chestnut, Geneva, Almata, Kerr and Wickson crabs... if I can actually find all those scions since a lot of the crabs seem harder to find.

I was going to say M-111 is drought tolerant. So I agree, I don't see the need for an interstem nor how that would improve even more drought tolerance or vigor.

An M-111/BUD9 interstem would certainly be ornamental!

FN: If I had the space and a little more patience, I would certainly consider just going with M-111. But by using the dwarf interstem I can grow smaller trees and fit in more varieties, plus get the benefit of them fruiting earlier.

Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a lot of testing of various interstem combinations that I can find so it is hard to know what combinations are possible.

Zen. My apple trees are still small and only 1-3 years old so my apple harvest is still very limited. Through reading the post of more experienced posters on this site I am making progress and anticipate improvement each year going forward. My choice of M111 rootstock was for its disease resistance, good root anchoring. Bud 9 appears to be the choice rootstock for commercial orchards that are going to the close spacing. IâÂÂm of the opinion that M111 root/Bu9 interstem/Tip bearers will result in what I desire from a tree. The other rootstocks you mention might be better than what IâÂÂm trying but at some point you just have to get started. IâÂÂm also considering M111/Spur bearers without an interstem. From some of my online reading there is about 25% reduction in tree size on spur trees and IâÂÂm assuming you will get another 20% reduction by using M111 roots resulting in a mid size tree on a very good rootstock. The combinations that IâÂÂm trying are in the early stages and time will tell how they meet my needs. I like what your considering and these may work out better than my own. Good luck, Bill

Yes, a 111 with a 9 insterstem has worked extremely well to encourage early fruiting on a well anchored tree for me as well. The only nursery I've seen them available is Cummins, though. Nurserys should be able to charge more for this more complicated method- it would be worth an extra couple of bucks, IMO

I planted 6 interstem trees in the spring of 2012 (from Cummins). 5 of them are on MM111, with a G11 interstem. From what I've read, I thought that they would be dwarf or a bit bigger. Instead, all 5 have been smaller than B9 (which is smaller than G11 or G16). In fact, they are only a bit bigger than G65 (mini-dwarf).

The 6th (Egremont Russet) is on B118, with a B9 interstem. This one has grown pretty strongly, at least as vigorously as G11, if not a bit more.

Of the 6 trees, 5 of them produced in the 2nd year, the only exception being Erwin Bauer, which produced in the 3rd.

I planted 2 more on G11/MM111 last spring (both Kaz apples) and neither has grown very quickly. Both were on the small size at planting (unlike the trees from the prior year), so that may also have something to do with their slow growth.

I planted the trees with the interstem completely above the ground level, as I didn't want them to get too big. It is possible that this is why the G11/MM111 have been so non-vigorous. Here's a pic of one of them. The interstem is swollen like this on all the trees, including the B9/B118, but it more prominent on the G11/MM111.

Harvestman and Bob, thanks for sharing your experiences. It does seem like there would be demand for these if more people offered them. I've found a nursery not too far away from me that offers M111/M9 rootstock, so I might also just buy a few of those to try putting scions onto.

Bob, did your trees come with the interstem section already swollen or did it swell up over time? Does it seem to continue swelling? Kind of odd looking... Also, do you have both regular single rootstock trees and interstems and which do you prefer?

Thanks again.

I'm not sure yet. In theory, I love that they are drought tolerant and well anchored. But, in practice, I'm not sure, since I haven't had any issues. All my trees are well staked and I haven't had any (interstem or dwarf) topple over. They are also heavily mulched with wood chips, so I don't normally see much water stress. I suppose I would need to plant them side-by-side and not take good care of them to see the difference. It's a good experiment, but, I don't have enough space to potentially waste some that way.

So, the main complaint I have for them is that they are smaller than I expected. If I had expected it, I would be good with it, after all, I'm growing quite a few on M27 and G65 (both even smaller). But with those mini-dwarf, I put them closer together (mostly 2-3'). The interstems, I have at 5-7', so I'm currently wasting some space.

My favorite apple rootstock is B9. It seems just about perfect for 4-5' spacing in my soil. I'm optimistic about G41, which I added for the first time this past spring.

I checked back to pics I took of the trees when they first arrived. Some had the swelling and some did not. The one pictured above have very little swelling at the time of planting. Here's the pic from when I first received it in March 2012.

Here's a pic of a different tree, from the same March 2012 order. It does have the swell, even at the time of planting. I haven't kept track of how it changes and don't know if having the interstem swell is a problem or not- just interesting.

Bob
Thanks for posting the pictures of your interstem grafted trees. I was trying to decide how long your interstems are. Is the ruler 12"? Thanks again. Thanks, Bill

Yes, the ruler is 12". Most of the interstems are ~6-8" long.

Do you think a G.41 would work on Antonovka? I'd like to plant a U-Pick orchard with berries, herbs, and flowers in the understory, which from what I've heard seems wouldn't be possible with a dwarf rootstock. I'm wondering if interstem grafting would allow the trees to have intensive understory plantings similar to the ones that are possible with standard sized trees. Would it be possible to avoid irrigation as well?

Hi food-dood,

I don't know if anyone can give you a very definite answer to this question based on experience since interstem apple growing is fairly rare from what I read.

Hopefully someone with applicable experience will weigh in, but my guess (and I emphasize that it is a guess) is that if your soil allows the Antonovka to send down deep roots it would keep the trees' roots from having too much competition with the understory plantings. So you'd get a well anchored tree and might not need to do much in the way of irrigation if you have reasonable rain, plus you'd get early fruiting, smaller trees from the G41 and you'd be able to grow your understory plants.

So logically it seems like a good strategy for what you'd like to accomplish, but I don't know that you can always count on logic for fruit trees... there is plenty of heartbreak to be found on this forum when theory and expectations didn't pan out. So unless you can find direct experiences or even research studies with that combination of rootstocks, you would certainly be taking a gamble if you are investing in a full orchard of trees. But it would be a great experiment...

Food-dood,

I agree with zendog- few, if any people have probably tried a G41/Antonovka combination.

G41 is a pretty new rootstock. I'm not sure where you would get enough G41 wood to graft as interstems. Go you have a few stock-trees of it growing? Or would you just buy a bunch of rootstocks and trim off the top 8" of each? A lot of the rootstocks I've received are tall enough that it could be done.

Also, given how G11 seems to be a very weak grower (at least for my small sample size of 8 trees), you may get a smaller tree than you want- though I'm not sure how closely G41 is related to G11.

One other consideration is how closely you plan to plant the trees. If you do 5-7', as most of my interstems are planted, there won't be a ton of space to grow berries/flowers/etc. If they get too close to the trees, it could make it hard to pick, or impact airflow, increasing disease pressure.

I like the theory, but issues may come up in a less-trod path. You may want to try it on a small scale first before making a big investment.

Can the rootstock, interstem, and the final variety all be grafted together at the same time? Or is it better to let rootstock/interstem graft heal and get established before grafting the final variety?

Hmmm.
Most of the first apples we planted here were on M111/M9 - or, at least, purchased as such; I was a novice, but looking at the photos in this thread, I don't know that I was ever able to ascertain the graft union between the understock and interstem - between the interstem and scion, yes.
I presume I planted them all with the root/interstem union below grade, but interstem/scion union above grade.
Have been unimpressed and disappointed with 'anchorage'; my site is exposed, fairly windy, and with fairly high water table. Many of those first trees leaned badly...and progressively more so each year - some far beyond 45 degrees, and required jacking back into upright position and propping up with big chunks of osage orange wood or a concrete block wedged up against the trunk.

NY
If youâÂÂre careful a double graft can be completed in one-step and achieve a high success rate. The doubles that I have done was with similar size wood and using a whip graft. The scion will leaf out slower than the interstem so you need to be patient. Good luck, Bill

Lucky: I wonder if they really were interstem trees you got if the anchorage is so poor. But I also wonder if burying the rootstock/interstem union might somehow reduce the overall benefit of the rootstock's anchorage characteristic. I like the idea of burying it to control suckering, etc. but I have to wonder if maybe as the interstem roots grow out it takes over as the main root and the rootstock below atrophies. Maybe I'll try a few buried and a few keeping the interstem/rootstock union above the soil to see if they show any differnces in anchorage or even drought resistance.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Sometimes things just donâÂÂt look like you think they should. My trees on rootstock M26 and B9 are much larger than the section above the graft. Apparently this characteristic carries over into interstem as well. This was not the case for my only long-term interstem with a pear tree (20 years ago). This tree had a Callery root and a 7â dwarf interstem (unknown dwarf interstem variety). The interstem was a little smaller in diameter than the rootstock or the fruiting variety above. The pear did extremely well and fruited early and often.

I wonder if quince can be used as a dwarfing interstem on pear roots.

NY
Compatibility between the Pear root and the Quince root will determine your success. IâÂÂm not certain but I feel like it would work because the Quince root is sometimes used to dwarf trees. There may be some pear varieties that arenâÂÂt compatible. I suspect the majority are. You will never know for sure unless you give it a try. The experiment sometimes is more enjoyable to me than the fruit off the tree. Both are good.

This site has a good list of what pears are compatible with Quince.

I tried to make a multigraft pear on a quince rootstock this past spring. The two varieties of pear that I grafted directly didn't take. But the two I grafted through an interstem of Magness both took. I let a shoot grow out of the Magness as well, so I've got 3 varieties on it. All the grafts were simple cleft grafts on scions of similar width.

What wil give more viggor:

MM111 and 30cm M9 interstem

MM111 and 30cm B9 interstem

Are there more differences between these combinations?

I've grafted M7 on M111 interstems and found that the size is smaller than I expected. Could have been my work at fault; but all the grafts took.

The posts above by 2010champsbcs and by bob_z6 discuss the above problem. I assume you're considering the B9 because you're location is far north?? If so Fedco suggests that apple trees grown in colder climates grow smaller than farther south. So I'm thinking that you're combining the size reduction of the interstem and from the colder growing zone.

Also some varieties of apples aren't very vigorous. And a further complication: some sports of a variety have different growth habits than other sports of the same variety.

M9 is the most commonly used rootstock in commercial orchards in the Netherlands.

As a private individual I want a drought insensitive tree and weak growth that is wind resistant.

That's why I used M9 as interstem on M111.

However, I have also put a B9 as interstem on M111 and I am curious whether a difference in vigor can be expected.