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Apple Recommendation, Please!

15 years ago

My husband and I live within city limits and have limited space on our property. We would like to grow a few different fruits, but I guess we will do one at a time. We are interested first in apples, but since we have limited space, we were hoping for a self-pollinating variety. However, we don't want GMOs and we don't use hybrid seeds in our vegetable garden. Is there such a thing as a self pollinating apple that is natural? Or do we really need two trees?

Comments (22)

  • 15 years ago

    michelle,
    I'm unaware that there are any 'GMO' apples on the market.

    I suspect that while there probably are some 'self-fertile' varieties, most if not all, apples will be more productive if pollenized by a different variety. That's nature's way.
    That said, if there are neighbors in the vicinity who have apples - or ornamental crabs - within flying distance for the bees and other pollenators, you'll probably have ample amounts of pollen to get the job done if you have space for only one tree.

    If you choose not to use 'hybrid' seeds, that's your choice - but 'hybrid' garden seeds are not bizarre, dangerous creations of some mad scientist(we've been breeding them for thousands of years) - and to a large degree, 'hybrid' vegetables are not really even 'hybrids' in the strictest sense of the word, they're just hand-made crosses of different strains of the same plant species that have been shown to result in plants that are more productive, resist certain diseases, pests, etc. better than either parent strain alone.

    Are you also opposed to cloning?
    Virtually all named varieties of fruits are propagated by grafting/budding - which is, in essence, a form of cloning - that has been practiced by orchardists for thousands of years.

    It's really not that scary.

  • 15 years ago

    Yeah, that came across as a frightened woman post. Very funny!

  • 15 years ago

    And that was unkind! Those are valid questions for someone just trying to start.

    Dave Wilson Nursery has several self-pollinating apples, plus the 4-in-ones--and much info on backyard orchard culture.

  • 15 years ago

    Raintree also has 4 in 1s, which would be a good option for this gardener.

  • 15 years ago

    Not to scare Michele more but all apples are hybrids since they are an outcrossing species - even the original wild apple trees in Kazakhstan are hybrids of two varieties.

    The reason why people don't like hybrid seed is not because it is a mutation but because the seed company taxes the grower every year since they can't save seed. Grafting is in fact more on the side of the individual grower, they can use it to propagate their own trees.

    I would say the easiest solution to the pollination problem is either get a 4-in-1 or get two trees and plant them in the same hole.

    Scott

  • 15 years ago

    @scottfsmith:
    You are correct, in that we don't like having to buy seed every year but like to save seed, which is why we buy open-pollinated or heirloom varieties.

    I didn't know you could plant two trees in the same hole! What kind of spacing is required?

  • 15 years ago

    Gravenstein is said to come fairly true to seed as it is self-fertile but I don't see how this would be much advantage when apples are so easily grafted. It does mean that there are lots of wild apples in the northwest that taste like Gravensteins- or so I've heard.

  • 15 years ago

    Since your space is limited, it's not likely that you'll be wanting to grow more apples from seed, so the hybrid issue would appear to be moot.

  • 15 years ago

    I would back up what Lucky said about pollination. I don't believe it would be a problem having a single apple tree. I'm willing to bet there are plenty of crab apples in the vicinity if not other apple trees(Malus domestica). I'd plant the apple variety you like best. If you plan to go completely "organic", which I suspect you do, you should consider the more disease resistant varieties.

  • 15 years ago

    Hello, Michele, buy two apple trees that will cross pollinate and that way you have your problem solved and two different apples to eat. Two is better and more fun! I have three large ornamental crabs in my upper garden and since they bloom so late, they do not help to pollinate my apples. Mrs. G

  • 15 years ago

    SoTX,
    There was no unkindness in my response to michelle other than that which YOU were apparently looking for - I answered her question - but since she also displayed the misplaced angst that's so frequently put forward by people who seem to be ignorant (no unkindness here, either, it's a word, with meaning) about plant breeding, 'hybrid' seeds, and, yes, genetically-modified organisms, I took the opportunity to try to allay some of her (IMO, unfounded) fears.

    I have no issue with anyone who wants to grow open-pollenated or 'heirloom' crops. I've done the 'antique/heirloom' apple thing in the past - none of them are still here. There are definite benefits in some improved varieties - improved by scientific approaches to plant breeding - over older selections.

  • 15 years ago

    I think SoTX was referring to lifespeed, not you Lucky.

    What made you give up on Antique apples? Was it a productivity issue (yield, biennial bearing, etc), marketability, or the apples themselves?

  • 15 years ago

    All the above. But the antiques/heirlooms weren't alone in falling out of favor. I initially planted far to many varieties that just were not suited for my growing conditions - or my lack of inclination to do ANY spraying, and minimal pruning or other care. I'm a laissez-faire orchardist.

  • 15 years ago

    Gravenstein has sterile pollen and needs a pollinator.

  • 15 years ago

    Hmmm, if Gravenstein has sterile pollen (triploid), then the story of it coming true to seed seems suspect. Can anyone in the northwest confirm the presence of many wild Grave-type apples in untended land?

  • 15 years ago

    Michelle-
    Since you want a more natural approach, I assume it also relates to chemicals. Start out with highly resistant varieties that highly resist scab, cedar apple rust, and fire blight. It will simplify things. Some varieties I've read that are resistant and highly prized include Gold rush, enterprise, liberty, and others. What type/flavor profile do you prefer in an apple?
    Apples are not my specialty, but I've included them in my growing experiences just because I love them.

    Site selection is also super important. You want as much early morning sun as possible to burn off fungus promoting dew. Do some research first, and do searches for past queries.Make sure the rootstock you chose is right for the growth parameters in the site you chose.

    For fire blight, streptomycin or other 'mycins
    I also hear surround, a superfine Kaolin clay spray has achieved success with repelling several insects. I'll be putting that on my Christmas list.

    Good luck,
    Noogy

  • 15 years ago

    Michelle
    Not too worry here is a list of Apples that are self fruitful with a few notes on individuals
    Akane nice dessert apple ripens august to sept
    scab, powdery mildew and fire blight resistant good for organic approach
    court pendu platt an anciant variety
    scab resistant ripens november to december
    coxs orange pippin
    grimes golden
    all are great apples
    i dont prefer the 4 in 1 in m y experiance they are more dificult to prune and one variety seems to always do better any ways. they are a good option for small spaces if many different types are wanted
    good luck
    a note about seeds are you a member of Seed savers exchange
    what do you grow and save
    we have over 400 varities in our vegetbale collection and around 300 types of fruit trees
    if you have any specific Questions id love to help you
    Cory

  • 15 years ago

    It might be a little easier if we have an idea where you live. Case in point, I'm in Phoenix, Arizona(8B) and my subtropical climate is not at all like parts of Alabama, for example, which are also 8s.

    That being said, I'd pick an apple that was fire blight and scab resistant, easy to grow, and self pollinating. There are a few apples that come to mind, but probably an easy apple to grow for your area will probably be a Liberty. I wouldn't do heirlooms or pickier trees until you successfully get one tree growing well under your belt.

  • 14 years ago

    We're in zone 5B in north central Kansas.

    I now realized that I have a neighbor two doors down with a small apple tree of some sort in her back yard. She only has one so it may be self fertile. Can her tree pollenize one in my yard? Or do they have to be certain kinds?

  • 14 years ago

    "Can her tree pollenize one in my yard? Or do they have to be certain kinds?"

    Aside from pollinators (i.e. bees) the biggest issue with apple pollination is making sure the bloom periods overlap.

    Apples are generally classified into three different bloom categories: Early, Mid, and Late. If the bloom period of your apple overlaps with your neighbors, they will likely pollenize each other.

    As alluded, if there are any crab apples in your neighborhood, you likely have no worries. One of the reasons commercial apple growers sometimes use crab apples as pollenizers is because they typically have a very long bloom time.

    There are a few triploid varieties that are pollen sterile, but most apples have viable pollen.

  • 14 years ago

    Another option for limited space is to espalier two or more trees. It's also very attractive.

  • 14 years ago

    Michelle,

    It is unlikely that your neighbor's tree is self fertile, which is good news for you.

    It means that that tree can probably help pollenize yours plus whatever is pollenizing it can help too.

    Even if your neighbor's is pollen sterile, whatever is supplying pollen for it can supply it for yours too.

    Once there are more than 3 or 4 trees in the area you don't have to worry much about bloom time since collectively they should cover a good range of times.