Michael:

Yes, this is normal. The more vigorous your tree, the latter the leaves will remain. The leaves may not be killed by cold until temp reach single digits. On a mature tree with no late season growth, the leaves will drop much sooner.

Not sure what you are spraying for, but there should be time after the leaves fall even if that is next spring. What are you thinking needs spaying this fall?

The Fruitnut

Hi Michael-
I believe that I'm seeing the same thing. All the maple, and 98% of the oak leaves have fallen, yet my Granny Smith is still holding on to its leaves. Until recently, it was the only green thing around. Now, you can tell that the leaves are starting to darken/die/get crusty, but again, my apple trees are the only ones that have any leaves on them. My Williams Pride looks like a bit of a French poodle in this regard... all the inner leaves have fallen off, but all the leaves on the last 8 inches or so of the branch are still on. So, lateral looks a bit like a lollypop. Kinda funny looking. Not sure if this is all normal (IÂm guessing itÂs fine), but I'm not loosing any sleep over it.

I'm going to try 2 sprays of Kocide (to control scab) this year... one during the winter, and just before bud-break. But, I wasn't planning on doing the winter spray until Jan/Feb/early Mar. Hopefully this is OK. Is there a temperature limit on the Kocide? Or you just don't want to be too cold?
-Glenn

Granny Smith and Pink Lady never do lose their leaves here- The new ones just push the old ones out. They fruit just fine afterwards (so much for the dormancy theory).

Northern Spy on the other hand is almost bare despite temps never dropping below 50 degrees yet. It has a nice compact blossom period in the spring, making it low chill. Too bad the fruit really stinks in our climate.

Applenut

Friutnut, thanks for your response. To be honest, I found a log note reminding myself to do it, written last spring. At the moment, my intention is to go back through all of my notes to see what I had in mind, I.E. why and for what. Definitely, there will be an app. at green-tip for CAR on my susceptible varieties. CAR is very prevalant here. If I remember correctly, it works on leaf curl on the peach, which has finally dropped it's leaves. Unfortunately, all of this these fruit-related horticultural practices are not yet pounded into my head like the vegetable ones are. The way my memory is going, its a good thing I write ALOT of notes. I did remember to pick the berries, peaches & apples this fall, amazing!

Here in Santa Cruz county, some apple trees hang on to their leaves until about mid January, but after that, they're all bare, even on warm years where we don't get much chill, even if we get occasional heat spells into the upper 70's. Applenut, where in Socal are you? I went to Oak Glenn last weekend to taste apples, it was a bit disappointing.

Michael, in your climate I would expect the trees should all drop their leaves in the fall. In the warm climates this may be optional.

In the past I have observed that if the tree is finishing up and getting ready to drop leaves and a hard frost hits, the leaves will then fall off almost overnight. However, if the tree is still green and growing when the freeze occurs, it can remain covered in dead leaves for months until they just seem to fall off from wind, weather, or general wear and tear. It is more common to see this where there is new growth late in the season. The new leaves just don't seem to want to drop. To me it just means that the tree wasn't ready to shut down for winter yet, maybe due to plenty of moisture, warm weather, or high nutrient levels and the freeze forced the issue. When this happened, I've never noticed that the trees or young branches ended up with any higher rates of winter kill.

When I see this I just take it as a message that I shouldn't be watering the trees as much late in the season or fertilizing the trees much if at all. For very late varieties, this is probably a relatively common occurrence because northern seasons will really be a little short and will shut the tree down before it is ready.

Axel-

We're in Riverside. It's way too late for apples in Oak Glen- the U-pick folks decend like locusts and pick most orchards clean the first couple weekends in October, even if they're not ripe yet. Anything left is drops that goes into cold storage, which doesn't do it much good. You need to have your own stash if you want the good stuff.

Applenut

just thought i'd chime in on this issue since some of my apple trees still have their leaves also.

some of the trees appear as to have new growth. at the branch tips new leaves are in that unfurling state. since water freezes during the day i can't imagine them continuing.

advice i've read in these forums state fall fertilizing will cause new unwanted growth but i never have fertilized these trees with the exception of coffee grounds and kitchen scraps with a small dosing of wood and bone ash in winter. maybe the kitty cats and deer have something to do with fertilizing.

as a note the peach,sweet and tart cherries,european and asian pears, apricots,plums and prunes are completely bare.

wildlifeman

My trees have never been fertilized as they have all shown vigorous growth since planting. The 4 yr old trees are going to get leaf sampled this summer for reference and to spot unobserved problems. We did have an unusually wet summer this year but, the trees that held their leaves last year did the same thing last year when it was much drier. Last year I made a point of stopping irrigation in sept. to allow for hardening off.
I think the older trees are starting to drop the leaves towards the center of the canopy.
By the way, any suggestions on visually telling the difference between manganese and iron chlorosis on apple leaves? I haven't read anything that gives me much hope for managing either. I suspect Fe is the problem because the maple nearby exhibits classic Fe chlorosis symptoms. The best management alternatives seem to be 1 or some combination of foliar sprays w/sequestered Fe or Mn, amending the soil w/sulfur to drop the pH to about 6.6-6.8 (from 7.2) and a soil drench w/sequestered Fe or Mn. I've worked with sequestered iron in the past with hydroponic cucumbers and tomatoes and know it to be quite expensive.

Well, it's almost the middle of December, and some apples are shedding, others are totally green and still growing. The ones shedding are the minority, and include Cox orange pippin, yellow transparent, Rambour Franc (Summer rambo) Gravenstein and McIntosh. Apples that are completely oblivious to the cold include amongst others Winter banana, Dorsett Golden, Spigold, Carmijin de sonaville, Calville Blanc, Belle de Boscoop, granny smith, Ernst Boch, Orelans Reinette, etc... well, you get the drift. Some apples are still in a major growth pattern, putting on new leaves.

it's typical for apples, since they come from higher elevations in Central Asia, so they're quite hardy and cool growing. We've got an arctic air mass heading down our way this weekend, so we should see daytime highs only in the 40's and lows in the 30's, that should convince some of these apples that it's time to shed.

My allington pippin apple tree is loaded, talk about some of the most delicious apples I've tasted. It will be a one shot deal, because I doubt I will get another late crop like this.

My Pinova tree has fruits the size of golf balls, it will be interesting to see if they make it through the Winter.

We've hit 0 deg. F several time this month yet there are still some leaves hanging on (10-15% left) to all 7 trees. I just went out today to give them a little gentle persuasion in hopes they'd fall off, nope. Oh well, surely the hail will get them this spring here in tornado alley.

i also still have leaves on some of my trees and have been well below zero. there could also be some leaves left on some of my smaller 4 foot tall trees but i can't see them because they are completely buried under snow.

i mentioned in an earlier post i put small amounts of ucg's and other organic materials on my trees to somewhat fertilize them. i'm thinking maybe what i deemed small amounts may have fertilized them more than i thought. next year i will suspend anything organic about july or august until they are fully dormant.

joy of joys it's snowing again... heavily.

wildlifeman