I've used carpet the last two yrs under melons and as mulch around grapes. It's worked pretty well. A few weeds started to grow thru the 2nd yr. I don't see any problems and it's better than putting it in a landfill. But it still might have to be disposed of at some point. Guess I could just put a second layer on top. Best of all it's free!!

The Fruitnut

You will find a fringe benefit to doing this
Rodents love it.

I've been putting down as much old carpet as I can "harvest" from the neighborhood on trash day. It works really well, and does make a big difference in terms of moisture retention. This past summer, during my late July-August drought, plants and trees with carpet and mulch were much less moisture-stressed than those without.

Obviously, you do need to put an organic mulch of some type on top of it for cosmetic reasons if nothing else.

I haven't moticed any particular rodent problems in my carpeted areas. I have a constant supply of voles anyway, but the addition of carpet to the garden hasn't seemed to increase them.

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Posted by imamensa (friday@optonline.net) on Wed, Jan 12, 05 at 19:13

I film and produce a cable access show here on Long Island that is all about Organic gardening and cooking demos on how to cook the harvest. Here in the garden, we do not use carpets since it attracts rodents who love to build their nest under that nice warm material in winter. I am not sure about whether any chemials would leach out, but I wouldnt want to take the chance. There are some gardeners who use black plastic and I wonder about the chemicals in that also. Why not find someone who shreds those beautiful Vermont fall leaves and use them as a mulch? You can also use compost, grass clippings, wood chips, or as a fellow Vermonter Ruth Stout suggests: salt hay. All of these mulches help to improve the soil. I hope to have a gardening website up soon. Hope you will visit.

Thanks for the input. I think I will give it try in the spring. That gives me a few months to find some purple shag from the 70's or something along that line that might even deter the rodents and maybe the deer.

Even if you do choose to ignore the toxicity warnings about using the stuff, at least be sure not to let weeds get a foothold in the stuff. If you ignore an infestation of Bermuda grass in the carpet for a little while, you'll need a backhoe to remove the mess it will make. Once the grass gets a foothold, it's protected by the carpet. The carpet is "glued" to the ground by the Bermuda grass. It's a viscous cycle and a tough mess to get rid of.

Seems old carpet would also contain remainders of whatever was tracked or spilled onto it during use, including lead, asbestos, used motor oil, pharmaceuticals, both medical and recreational ... in particular anything and everything liable to have been walked through by shoes on streets and parking lots.

Harvestman,
People have paid me a lot of money to get rid of the mess made by using carpet as mulch. If you have a better idea of how to remove carpet heavily infested with Bermuda grass, please let us know what it is. Carpet won't come up easily by hand. A tiller just winds the carpet up around the tines if you can get the tines to cut through at all. A mattock isn't effective. What's your idea?

>Wow, sometimes the cautions posted here do seem a bit over the top! Dangerous toxins from foot trafficA news reporter here had her blood tested for lead content. After she got her results back and saw what the report said she was shown in the follow-up TV broadcast taking her shoes off before going in the house.

We live in an industrial culture with a lot of crap having been put into the environment. Why needlessly put something under fruit trees that might contain toxics? Seems like much of the appeal of home fruit growing would be to get away from the pesticides poured on commercial orchards.

If I used local news to evaluate personal danger I would be a neurotic mess. I have heard of studies that indicate that the affect of excessive exposure to this kind of sensational media (local news loves all kinds of alarming stories to keep you tuned) leads to high levels of anxiety.

As far as weeds anchoring carpet, I suppose I would pull the carpet up and flip it as often as necessary to prevent this from happening. For me it's never been a problem but it really doesn't sound like a very insurmountable issue. Of course, where you are soil and weed conditions may be different than anything I've encountered. Every good idea is susceptible to objections, though.

I suspect your soil is not as rich and light as mine if your weeds are so difficult to pull. If this is the case I'd put a couple inches of wood chips beneath the carpet to keep things loose and develop a nice humus layer over time. Makes it hard for weeds to really anchor.

Lead etc. in the environment is not a secret. Automobile brake linings give off asbestos.

Extension service here used to recommend locating edible plantings 100' back from highways.

>I am hoping the chemicals in it's slow breakdown would be no more harmful than herbicides appliedWhile the level of activity would be expected to vary with the materials used to make the carpeting, if we take rubber (an ingredient used in some carpeting and mats) as an example...

Part of the toxic nature of rubber leachate is due to its mineral content: aluminum, cadmium, chromium,
copper, iron, magnesium, manganese, molybdenum, selenium, sulfur, and zinc have all been identified in
laboratory and field leachates. If rubber products have been exposed to contaminants during their useful
lifetime, such as lead or other heavy metals, they will adsorb these metals and release them as well

Here is a link that might be useful: Rubber mulch.pdf

Here's the thing. our civilization produces an awful lot of crap that has to be disposed of. When it is concentrated in landfills, normal biological processes cannot break down harmful chemicals for a variety of reasons, inadequate heat and oxygen leading the list. Very often chemicals cannot break down when brought into the home as well, such as organiphosphates which are processed pretty well in low concentrations outside. (I realize some of you will debate this but I'm not interested in that tired contraversy right now.)

Using a little carpet as mulch seems to be an ideal way of dealing with one form of waste. Everything leaches chemicals but I think it is counterproductive to be excessively conservative. The concern about produce near a highway doesn't have anything to do with ground pollution but with direct contact of chemicals in the air attaching to leaves and fruit. Plants do not pull everthing in the ground into their systems and if carpet does not create a huge health risk in someones home where they are breathing in its fibers and absorbing its chemicals through their skin how could it pose a significant risk as a mulch? It is possible I suppose but not likely enough to advise against it in my opinion. Someone can google the issue of whether plants selectively absorb lead through their roots if they like, but it's something I haven't heard about.

The danger of industrial pollution is not how it kills us one at a time- individuals are living longer than they ever have. The danger of industrial pollution is that it is altering the entire planet in ways that threaten the existence of our entire species. This is a fact that the organic agriculture movement seems to overlook. When the oceans themselves are dying, mostly from chemicals unrelated to agriculture, eating organic brocolli doesn't do a whole lot of good.

Harvestman,

Are you familiar with Bermuda grass? Whether it's in deep fertile rich soil or in hard clay, it can be a bear to pull up! It's especially hard to pull up in giant sheets. I've pulled this stuff up in all types of soil, and never found any that wasn't firmly anchored. It isn't an "insurmountable issue" with the right tools, but it's not something I want to spend my free time doing.

So far as the toxins go, I've seen a few studies about carpet breaking down and leaching all kinds of dangerous chemicals into the soil. The studies that I've seen make the stuff sound less than ideal for mulching around food plants. Sure, the studies may be hyped up, and maybe it's no more dangerous than smoking cigarettes, but I thought anyone contemplating using carpet in this manor at least needs to be aware that there could be problems. If someone chooses to use it, that's great. It's a free country, but there's no reason not to even consider the possibility of negative consequences.

Brandon 7, of course your advice is as valid as mine. We submit our arguments and let the advisee decide. I do not deal with bermuda grass here in the Northeast but I believe my brother in HI deals with bermuda and worse- I have dealt with his turf and it is extremely tough.

I work horticulture professionally and have for 40 years. I listen to advice, read and have done the academic tour, but we all develop our own techniques and styles. Much of what I do defies conventional wisdom and professional literature. I would guess you understand exactly what I'm saying and share some of this in your own business.

The internet is always interesting because it is difficult to assess the actual talent of the advice givers. All this advice but what do the advisers gardens actually look like and how much work and money did it take to get there? And how much is the advice based on ego and selective and twisted representation of "research".

I am going out now on a soil consultation and will be paid a professional wage for advice I send out free on the internet but that doesn't necessarily mean my advice is better than the weekend garden warrior.

Surprising debate about a somewhat mundane subject?
I think the fears about chemicals leaching out of carpets are a little much. BTW, asbestos is no longer used in car brakes. And no lead in gasoline which has hugely reduced the amount of lead on surfaces around roadways.

I have used carpet in my garden selectively for a couple of years as an experiment with very good results. I have no problem removing the carpet pieces, have no problem with rodents, and find its a joy to work on (as in getting on your knees and pulling tiny weeds, picking vegetables or planting.

I put down a layer of plain brown cardboard from boxes before the carpet mulch pieces. The carpet has been pretty much maintenance free, but I will probably pull it up and give it a good shaking this spring before planting.

Its surprisingly easy to find discarded carpet. Last fall I found a discarded heap of my "holy grail" of carpet: thick, grass green pile! Cant wait to see how that looks under my tomatoes.

cheers!

"I think the fears about chemicals leaching out of carpets are a little much."

I have no strong opinion one way or another about how dangerous chemicals that could leach from carpets are in this situation, but the studies I have seen on this subject focus on chemicals in the carpet itself, not chemicals deposited on the carpet when it was being used as a floor covering. Many/most carpets do indeed contain some pretty nasty stuff. Whether those things could possible get into your plants as the carpet breaks down is the debate. I would be hesitant to say that the controversy was "a little much" unless I knew more about it or was familiar with related studies. I'm not sure that anyone really knows for sure at this point, and, if that's the case, it would be wise to at least consider the negative possibilities when making your own decision.

It's coincidental that this post came back up. I was speaking with the guy at my local nursery and he said peach tree borers will be my biggest problem. I thought about this carpet idea and wondered if that would be a good deterrent.

I have been thinking to put peaches 4 to a hole, but worried about how easy it would be to deal with peach tree borers with the trunks so close.

So, those of you with carpet on the outside of the house please let me know how this method has fared in ridding your trees of peach tree borers.

Do you use the carpet right side up or up side down?