In my opinion, which is, I believe, backed up by controlled tests, Marigolds do little to repel pests. Not all Marigolds are equal, but even for the best ones the plant to be protected needs to be planted in an ocean of them.

On the topic of Neem, it may surprise you, but some beekeepers spray it directly on their colonies to control mites that prey on the bees. It is an oil which means it will kill soft bodied insects it is sprayed directly on such as aphids. It's primary mode of action though is from it's active ingredient which *must* be ingested by the insect. Once ingested it is an anti-feedant and a reproductive disruptor meaning the insect will starve to death and not reproduce.

This makes Neem fairly safe on beneficials since they don't eat our plants and thus ingest the active ingredient. Spraying it in the evening will reduce the risk of spraying beneficial insects, but keep in mind it's sprayed directly on bees by some bee keepers.

Great info. Thanks!

Some marigold varieties are known to repel harmful nematodes, but (as justa says), you need to plant an ocean of them and allow them to grow for an entire season. Once harvested, that plot will be relatively nematode free for a season or two.

I know of no 'bad bugs' that marigolds repel. Lots of beneficial pollinators like them, though. That's a good thing.

What kinds of pests are you having problems with? I often recommend neem, but I think you should have a targeted pest in mind.

Neem Oil products are also contact poisons and as such they will kill bees if the bees are sprayed, even accidentally. Neem Oil products kill insects by contact as well as ingestion and they are very broad spectrum and will kill bees, butterflies, Lady Beetles, etc. contrary to what I have seen written by many people. Planet Natural and BioNet will tell you that right on their label, as will many others most likely.

Kimmsr, google 'neem oil honey bees' and I think you will find the beekeepers spraying neem on their colonies to control mites don't find it a 'bee killer'. Neem doesn't kill lady bugs either.

It's not like this hasn't been studied and the information published... years ago.

Neem really should not be considered a broad spectrum pesticide. It has little effect on insects that are not actively feeding on the tissues or juices of plants, when used properly. (Naturally, one would not go around the garden looking for butterflies to soak in mid flight.)

The warnings about honeybees are important. One shouldn't spray ANYthing directly on actively foraging bees. It's as simple as that.

Attached is the label from Biconet's neem product. I'm afraid that I can't locate the area where it states that it will kill beneficial insects. Please point it out for us.

Here is a link that might be useful: Label

I really like Neem Oil, and it's not a 'contact poison'. It's used in stomach medications, lipstick, body creams, and mixed into grain bags (rice) to kill insects in India and other countries. I find it extremely effective & easy on the predatory beneficials.

I would only add the fact to what JaG & Dori offered that all products that contain 'neem derivatives' are not created equal. Solvent and steam extraction methods (possibly other methods as well) reduce the amount and/or effectiveness of the ingredient (azadirachtin) in the extract that is responsible for its efficacy.

Though there is little in the way of immediate knock-down when using neem extract, it is a powerful anti-feedant, an oviposition deterrent (anti-egg laying), a growth inhibitor, a mating disrupter, and a chemosterilizer. Azadirachtin, closely mimics the hormone ecdysone, which is necessary for reproduction in insects. When present, it takes the place of the real hormone and thus disrupts not only the feeding process, but the metamorphic transition as well, disrupting molting. It interferes with the formation of chitin (insect "skin") and stops pupation in larvae, thus short-circuiting the insect life cycle. It also inhibits flight ability, helping stop insect spread geographically.

I suggest you use only a raw, or cold-pressed neem oil product (so you maximize the level of the azadirachtin), such as the one made by Dyna-Gro.

Al

From the label of PlanetNaturals Neem oil product, 'This product is toxic to bees exposed to direct treatment. Do not apply this product while bees are actively visiting the treatment area.'
The product that Biconet sells has the same warning on it.
Improperly used Insecticidal Soaps can kill bees. Improperly used a sharp stream of water can kill bees.

Here is a link that might be useful: Neem label

Both labels are from the same product manufacturer - Monterey Lawn and Garden Products.

As to the toxicity of neem and bees - neem is an oil based substance. Spraying any oily product directly on bees will of course affect their ability to fly and possibly respiration so should be avoided when bees are present. That's just common sense. However it is considered non-toxic in that sprayed plants, including plant pollen, has minimal to no effect with respect to bees. And its use on beehives to control mites is well documented and the subject of numerous scientific studies.

Neem oil and neem products are a very valuable organic tool for both insect and specific fungal issues and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend or use them appropriately and according to label instructions.

So we should also avoid watering our gardens and all forms of nuclear control? ;o) ... so don't spray it on the bees - or use it only late in the day. Perhaps it's the 30% of vehicle that is toxic? - not a problem in cold-pressed or raw neem oil, which is also applied at a much reduced rate.

Many of us DO take into consideration how to use a product that is effective and still minimize risk. Nothing is fool-proof. Irons often tell you "... do not iron clothing while wearing", too.

Al

Common sense should tell you that any product that kills insects does just that, and to state that Neem Oil is non toxic to bees is untrue and putting certain qualifications on that after stating it is not toxic to bees is wrong. Neem Oil products are toxic to bees. Neem Oil products are meant to kill insects.
Neem Oil products are broad spectrum poisons that need to be used with due care and should not be the first thing to reach for when you have a problem with insects, although it might be something too use before pyrethrin based materials.

There seems to be a short circuit in the logic being used here :-) When used properly - just as one would use appropriate caution when using insecticidal soap or even water when bees are present - Neem IS non-toxic to bees. That it can be used directly on beehives to control mites should be ample evidence of that. Because of its primary mode of action, it requires ingestion by the insect to be effective. Bees don't eat the plants and it has been found that even neem treated pollen has minimal on bees. So if you spray the neem when no bees are present, there is no toxicity to the bees. Period.

From Extoxnet:
Effects on Other Animals (Nontarget species): Azadirachtin is relatively harmless to spiders, butterflies, and insects such as bees that pollinate crops and trees, ladybugs that consume aphids, and wasps that act as parasites on various crop pests. This is because neem products must be ingested to be effective. Thus, insects that feed on plant tissue succumb, while those that feed on nectar or other insects rarely contact significant concentrations of neem products. Another study found that only after repeated spraying of highly concentrated neem products onto plants in flower were worker bees at all affected. Under these extreme conditions, the workers carried contaminated pollen or nectar to the hives and fed it to the brood. Small hives then showed insect-growth-regulating effects; however, medium-sized and large bee populations were unaffected (234). A study of neem products and their effect on mortality, growth and reproduction of earthworms in soils was conducted. Positive effects on weight and survival were found in soil treated with ground neem leaves and ground seed kernals under greenhouse conditions. Reproduction was slightly favored over a period of 13 weeks in a neem-enriched substrate in rearing cages. Various neem products were incorporated in the upper 10-cm soil layer of tomato plots. None of the materials had negative side effects on seven species of earthworms (240). No significant effects on other wildlife were reported (238).

Common sense should tell you that any product that kills insects does just that, and to state that Neem Oil is non toxic to bees is untrue

You are absolutely correct. I appreciate you educating all these people. If one were to grab a bee and shove it into a bottle of neem oil and seal it up for a week, I bet the bee would die. Sooo many people just don't realize this and just keep shoving bees into the bottle and sealing it up. I don't know what is wrong with them. Neem Oil products are toxic to bees.

I know, I agree with you 100%. Now if we could just convince the bee keepers to quit spraying it on their hives! Given how toxic this poison is to bees I just can't understand why bee keepers keep using it. When will those silly bee keepers learn? Neem Oil products are broad spectrum poisons

YES! They will kill almost any insect that gorges itself on plant material sprayed with it. Never mind that the insects that gorge themselves on our plants are 'pests' we would like dead. Neem is very effective at killing those insects that eat our plants. It's very bad stuff.

justaguy.................u tell em

Compared to what my neighbors in LA spray w/o thought, it is extremely benign. I don' particularly like the look of the oil residue or its taste if eaten too soon after spraying.

I'd like to help clear up the confusion about these oils on bees. I have kept bees before and have done much research on the subject.
Though I don't have personal experience with neem oil on bees, I do know about wintergreen and tea tree oil use. As far as I know, the pure oils are never sprayed directly on bees, as they are toxic to them in large enough quantities. I've only heard of it being used as a spray when a teaspoon or so is well mixed with water and lightly misted on the bees. The way the oils are commonly used is by mixing a small amount of it with vegetable shortening and sugar. In the proper proportions the shortening dilutes it to a level that will not harm the bees, but will be lethal to varroa mites. Though shortening itself will often smother mites, the essential oils increase the effectiveness of a shortening treatment. A cake of the sugar and shortening mixture is placed in the hive, and the bees will pick up the sugar crystals to carry them away. They end up getting a bit of the shortening on themselves and will spread it around as they groom their bodies, and the small amount of oil in it will only kill the mites. Another method commonly used is mixing up a sugar syrup to feed the bees and adding a small amount of oil to it (it works better if an emulsifier, such as honey, is used). Again, the amount used will not be toxic to bees. The bees will ingest the sugar water, and have just enough of the oil's toxin in their system to harm the female mite's reproductive system. When the bee larvae are fed the sugar water, they will also become toxic to the mites that feed on them. When the mites feed on the larvae and later hatch out with the new bee, they will not be able to reproduce.
So in conclusion, yes, the oils will kill bees, but only in a high enough quantity. It shouldn't be sprayed directly on the bees in any case, and should only be used if diluted to the proper percentage and used in the right dose (just like any other treatment for any animal or plant). If used properly it won't harm the bees. There's been a lot of research in this area, as beekeepers rely on their bees to stay alive and healthy. They're not trying to kill their bees, and if not treated, the varroa mites will take care of the bees anyway.
(Note: the sugar water treatments are only used after honey is collected, and stopped before the honey supers are put back on to avoid bees filling the comb with sugar syrup instead of honey.)

I would have thought it common knowledge by now.
You should spray late in the day, some say after 4.00pm to be as bee safe as you can.
Is there a Beekeeper among us, back me up. when it come to mites/ vampires or other wise, bee keeper use small amounts of many poison to save the bees.

justaguy2, have you talked to a beekeeper about the reason they use any product.
Digitalis saves lives, but if you do not need it ,then it will kill you.That makes it a poison to some one who does not need it. If bee keeper did not use these items to protect the bees, then we would not have bees.
Before you get on about poisons, do a search on Honeybee & the pest that they have to fight just to live for the 30 days they are alive.Parasites like Varroa & tracheal mites,CCD,Israeli Acute Paralysis Virus(IAPV),American Foulbrood, European Foulbrood,Nosema,Chalkbrood,Sacbrood,Stonebrood,Wax Moths,Small Hive Beetle,Ants,Bears,Raccoons,Skunks,Mouse & Birds.
Sorry folks, but some of these statements are a kin to throwing out any medicine in any hospital that was not grown organically. No matter how many live it has or will save.
Throw the baby out with the bath water.

I've been doing a lot of research on neem oil as we have beehives & wanted to make sure we were not doing anything to put our bee health in jeopardy.

Tine & time again research seems to say neem oil, when used in a diluted solution is safe for bees & is actually recommended for use.

'Dutch toxicologist Dr Henk Tennekes(3) has detailed the deleterious residual knock-on effects of using neonics in Western Europe, including contaminating fresh waterways, killing trillions of soil organisms and rapidly diminishing biodiversity from meadow birds to raptors like goshawks. Manufacturers say the pesticides are not harming bees or other species. BBC News reported Dr Julian Little from Bayer, one of the manufacturers of neonics, saying: “There is very little credible evidence that these things are causing untoward damage because we would have seen them over 20 years of use.” Nevertheless, Europe currently has a two-year moratorium in place preventing the use of neonics on flowering crops.Researchers from the University of Sussex, in the UK,(4) recently concluded that to save bees globally, neonics must be quickly phased out. One immediate alternative to neonics is the Indian neem tree and its potent natural chemical, azadirachtin. Extracts of neem are effective against at least 200 different insect species but are harmless to pollinators like bees, butterflies, moths, beetles and bats as well as beneficial insects, warm-blooded animals and birds.'

How marigolds are pest unfriendly

Marigolds’ greatest claim to pest control fame is their effect, documented in numerous studies, on nematodes, which are a kind of worm that in some cases is destructive to plants.

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Like other members of the daisy family, marigolds also do their share in feeding nectar to beneficial insects, such as syrphid flies, who prey on aphids and other insects that attack garden plants. Members of the daisy family do not yield nearly as much nectar as flowers of the parsley family — dill, for instance — but daisy family flowers keep the nectar flowing longer.

Other beneficial effects of marigolds are less dramatic or useful. They have been shown to have some slight effect in repelling cabbage worms from cabbage and their kin. And some marigolds, especially a variety called Stinking Roger, repel flies, except that the flies are the kind that bother cows and other domestic animals, not plants.

Read and listen to claims made for marigolds, and you also could press it into service as a fungus killer, an insect killer, even a selective weed killer.

Weigh pros and cons

Hold on a second, however, before you blanket your garden in marigolds. Some of these claims have been blown out of proportion.

Those marigolds that helped repel cabbage worms: They also stole water and nutrients from nearby cabbages. So which is better? Stunted cabbages, or those with some leaves lacy from caterpillar feeding?

Marigolds, especially the Gem varieties, also are a favorite food of slimy slugs and Japanese beetles. As such, they have been used to stop Japanese beetle damage — by attracting the beetles away from other garden plants. Of course, such schemes commonly backfire by attracting more pests to the area than would have been there otherwise.

And now, for some marigold reality

If you really want their pest-controlling benefits, blanket your garden with oodles of marigolds. British studies showed that African marigolds killed weeds such as ground ivy and bindweed, but the marigolds were planted densely and early in the season, then allowed to grow 5 feet tall. Might not any tall, dense growth do the same?

Similarly, marigolds suppress nematodes only when the marigolds are grown as a cover crop, that is, planted thickly and allowed to grow for many weeks.

To sum up, marigolds seem to have little actual benefit in suppressing disease and above ground insect pests, except perhaps to woo certain insects away from other plants. Be wary of such claims as, “I planted marigolds in my bean patch and did not have any beetles to speak of, while my neighbor’s bean plants were devoured by Mexican bean beetles.” Was this gardener growing the same bean variety as the neighbor? Were soil conditions the same? Did he or she perhaps forget about the insecticide also applied? It happens.

Below ground, marigolds do have some benefit — on nematodes, at least. However, you have to plant masses of marigolds to get this benefit and anyway, not every garden has nematode problems.

So why are those marigolds in my vegetable beds? ‘Cause they look pretty.

LEE REICH

I don't understand the logic. Yes, Neem oil won't hurt butterflies but where do butterflies come from? Voracious chewing caterpillars. Do you notice there are very few butterflies around.

Mine says it's safe for bees. The brand is Native Neem and is certified organic.