Hi Altair, Did you get your Chiloschita from a place in Montana called Botanica Ltd? I have not seen viridiflava for sale on many of the U.S. growers sites. Any how, I have both the Chilo. Viridiflava & the Dendrophylax Lendenii. The Chilos have not done this to me yet, but the Dendrophylax have. Here is my story, hopefully it will help you come up with a solution to your problem. They (the Dendrophylax) were growing great for a few months & then one day the roots started to Desiccate. I have two different sets of the Dendros, They were both doing it. I left on set of plants in its current situation & moved the other set lower to the humidity source & increased its water, I noticed that the roots stopped shriveling. They never filled back out, but the shriveling definitely stopped. I can not say if it was the extra water or the extra humidity that really stopped the desiccation, but the other set that was left alone continued to shrivel until I gave it the same treatment. Since then, the roots have not done much from the end of January thru March. I put the healthier of the two sets of Dendrophylax into a weak solution of K-L-N rooting hormone for about 30 minutes. From March 10th(the day of the K-L-N treatment) until roughly March 29, there was not a lot of change. Now in the last couple days, I have seen a couple small green roots starting to emerge from the crowns of the tiny plants. I will be trying this on the weaker set of plants in the near future.

My suggestion, would be to increase water. I think a lot of people kill these guys because they just give them a light misting instead of a good soaking. I think the culture sheet I got with my Chilos suggested to water them 3-4 times a week (thatÂs every other day for a plant with no pseudobulbs & not potting medium to store moisture) So I imagine if they are not getting enough water & the humidity is not high enough, then they will start to shrivel. Mine are being grown with my vandas, they get 20 minutes of watering in the morning with filtered city tap water. Before I put them with the vandas, I would give them (what I thought was a heavy misting) of RO water & put them back into their enclosure. But after the roots started to go, that is when I made the switch & have not had any more trouble sense.

There is a lady named Clara on this forum that lives in the north who has mentored me with my Dendrophylax. Hopefully she will see this & pop in to give some advice! She is the one who suggested more water for my little ghost orchids & it seems to have saved them For now There is also another guy named Tony from Atlanta who is very knowledgeable about Dendrophylax Lendenii. I think he soaks his in a bucket of water every day. Any how, if you see either of these two, send them a message & hopefully they will respond.

I know that growing outside of South Florida is very different, anyone else have a suggestion? Altair, be sure to keep us updated!

-Ray-

Ray - Thank you sooo much for this priceless info. Yes, I did buy them from Botanica Ltd. I stumbled across their plants for sale on Ebay and took a chance with one. I was so happy with it that since then, I've gone straight to their website for purchasing :)

So, do you trim off the area that has shriveled up, or do you keep it on? I'd feel horrible cutting it off - on one of the roots, it started to shrivel towards the middle area, but the root tip is still very healthy and green looking.

Yesterday after I noticed it, I pulled it out of the vase and gave it a good long soaking in rain water...well, melted snow that I warmed up. They're the same, right? I made sure the snow was really clean. Anyways, yeah, and I added a smidge of superthrive into the water and just let it soak for a couple hours. Would you recommend soaking it like that once a day until the roots stop shriveling?

Thank you so much for all of your help! :)

~altair

"Would you recommend soaking it like that once a day until the roots stop shriveling?" Not just till the roots look healthy again but for the rest of your life. Ray is/was exactly right and the roots are/were dessicated. Even in a high humidity situation like a greenhouse (vase?) mounted orchids are still high maintainance time suckers. Did I say that? Sorry. The good news is that it really need not be an hours long soak every day. A few minutes (every day) will do as much as a few hours. Once the velamen is completely saturated (~1+ min) further soaking doesn't do much. You know when roots are properly wetted when the velamen is a bright green. Dessicated roots will usually not 'green up' as well as healthy roots and that persists even after you have fixed things in much the same way that Intergenerics pleat their leaves when poorly watered and then remain that way forever to continually remind you of your lapse. Never mind, we know you wont do it again. Just remember, with all this watering that you will now be performing, light needs to be excellent. In addition to steady artificial light some sun really needs to fall on it for an hour or two each day. If not, then the artificial light really needs to get up into the 85W range for a single CFL.

H

Howard, thank you so much! Now that I know they like to be soaked, I will most certainly keep up on that :) In the past, I have a tendency to overwater things, so I was trying my hardest to avoid another root rot situation....it seems I've gone too far in the opposite direction (oops). When you said that the dessicated roots will remain that way forever, I'm gathering from this that I should leave them on the plant?

The lighting situation seems good (I think). In the mornings if it's sunny, I've been moving the vase and putting it onto the windowsill, which receives full sun for a couple hours in the AM. Also, when no natural light is available, I try to keep it near one of the two 85 watt CFL's I have going in my setup. In addition, I have a humidifier/fan that I sometimes put the vase near if I feel it's been sitting wet for too long....again, fear that no air circulation will cause root rot.

How often do you think I should give it a soak in fertilizer? I'm assuming I should follow the "weakly weekly" rule, but just wanted to double check and be sure.

~altair

I concur with Howard, Soaking for hours does nothing extra for it. If you really feel like it (and you have the time) after the roots have dried out & if it is not too late in the day, another good soaking couldn't hurt! In the summer my Vandas (and leafless orchids) get 20 min. of water in the morning & 20 minutes in the afternoon (around 12:00 or 1:00). For you growing indoors, it might need a little more time or a little less time to dry out (depending on your humidity levels). Also, make sure that if they are not back to that velum color by the time the sun is starting to set, that you adjust your 2nd water application time to give it enough time to dry out before night fall.

For fertilizing, I generally give it a single sprits of peters professional 15-15-15 fertilizer once a week. Again, I keep it with my Vandas, so it may get a bit more as the mists from my heavier feeding plants lands on it. If you are going to soak the plant in a bucket, soak it first, let it dry out for 30 minutes or so & then give it a good sprits. Repeat once a week unless you start to see burnt root tips or if there is a change in the plants health. Also, do not be concerned if the little leaves start to brown & fall off, that is a natural part of the plants growth cycle.

One more thing, I am sure that the plaque that you received the plant on has the green alge on it (as mine did). If you see that is drying out & starting to go away, it is a sign you need more water. Everyone I have seen that has successfully cultivated these leafless orchids has a good amount of the green alge, moss, or whatever that green stuff is built up on the surface of whatever the plant is mounted to.

I keep the roots that have desiccated on my plants. I do not know if it helps or hurts the plant, but leaving them on for the last couple of months seem to neither harm nor help the plants.

One more thing & then I promise I will stop typing. The Spanish moss that the plant came with, did you keep any of it? Letting a couple pieces of the Spanish moss hang on the mount (so it is touching the plant, I let the moss kind of hang over the front of the plant)is a great way to provide a little extra humidity without rotting roots as you would with sphagnum moss. When you water, just dip the moss in the water with your plant so it can absorb water & nutrients.

-Ray-

P.S. Did you see that the Chiloschista viridiflava they are selling are supposed to have a chocolate fragrance? That was a big selling point for me =0)

I do see a little green on the plaque...hopefully more will develop. I've seen pictures of leafless orchids, and come to think of it, the majority have had green algae growing very heavily on the plaque. I wonder why this seems to be so beneficial? I suppose out in the wild, algae and such would grow naturally on the trees and the plants would adapt. Yes, the plant did come with a bunch of live spanish moss around it - it was just beautiful! I kept all of it...couldn't bear to throw it away, it looked too neat wrapped around the plaque. I've heard that it's very beneficial for the root growth and that it inhibits root rot.

I think I'll leave the shriveled roots on the plant. One started to shrivel in the middle of the root, but it still has a green tip and I'd hate to cut it. This is probably going to sound like a silly question, but I'm curious...if you cut an area of the root off, does the plant require/use more energy healing the trimmed end so it's no longer open?

That Chiloschista viridiflava was the one I bought too. I read the description of how it's supposed to have a chocolate fragrance and couldn't pass it up :)

~altair

I do not believe that Chilos. grow offshoots of roots from other roots. When looking at my plants & from seeing plants of people in the F.L.O.S. meetings, every root grows from the crown of the plant. So if you were to chop a portion of a healthy root (or accidentally break it off). That root will not grow any longer. I think the only thing you need to do if you cut/break a root is treat the cut end with a powder fungicide (by the way, rooting hormone like Schultz Take Root, is mostly made up of inert materials & bacteria/fungicide, so it is an easy & inexpensive way to treat a damaged root, leaf, or pseudobulb).

Also, in the wild, orchid seeds form a symbiotic relationship with fungi growing on tree bark which helps them grow from seeds to protocoms & to small plants with leaves. Tony (the guy in Georgia I told you about) makes up a batch of water soluble mychrozzial fungi & dunks his mounted plant in it a couple times a week. Someone suggested that the fungal relationship is not needed past the early stages of the plants life when it has formed roots, but I'm willing to lay down a few bucks to try something to see if it works better!

If you get yours to flower before I get mine to, you have to put a post on here or send me a private message to let me know if the chocolate fragrance comes across!

-Ray-

You're *so* lucky to live in Florida and have people at your society who grow these guys. I asked a couple people that belong to the society up here and no one will fess up to growing (or knowing anyone who does grow) leafless orchids...so I'm venturing into unknown territory, lol. I think they aren't that popular here because of the climate. Anyways, just have one more question...after you started routine soakings, about how long did it take for the roots on your plant to show signs of recovery? Did the roots stop shriveling immediately (within a day or so), or did it take a few weeks? Just curious.

Thanks so much for all of your help, and I'll definitely post a message if it ever blooms - I'm really curious about the fragrance too :)

~altair

"I have a humidifier/fan that I sometimes put the vase near if I feel it's been sitting wet for too long....again, fear that no air circulation will cause root rot." Fans are very drying. Humidifiers that use wicks are IMO not all that effective and while they maybe a little better than nothing for the average houseplant/orchid plant lover the lover of leafless orchid plants can and should try to do better. But yes, the main reason why these plants aren't seen more is because they really don't do well in average conditions. Nothing happens overnight in the orchid world. You may notice the beginning of active growth as little as a week or two after the change to artificial light but since the shriveled roots are not likely to plump up to any great degree it will be in 'newer roots that the success of your new methods will be seen I would not be surprised to have to wait for a month or so to see defnite evidence of better roots.

H

Absolutely Howard! The humidifiers do not really do much when the air is already soooo dry. Those dried roots have never plumed back up, but I leave them there anyway. Another idea that might be helpful is something that I posted last night to a person trying to grow their first Vanda in the Northeast. I would suggest putting the plant in the bathroom in a bright window sill. If you take two hot showers a day, there should be pretty high ambient humidity (at least, higher than what is in the rest of the house). That would be a great benefit for the plant!

As for how long it might take to see some real improvement. As I said in a previous post here, only the plant that had been dipped in rooting hormone is showing new root development. The other plant has not yet been treated & not nearly 2 months later there is no visible improvement.

-Ray-

P.S. The roots stopped shriveling in a couple waterings.

Hi, Altair,

Why did you and Ray have to say that Chilo smells like chocolate?? Of course, my collection is supposed to get smaller right now....

Anyway, my Chiloschista pygmeas gets treated about the opposite of what Ray and Howard have said. Please keep in mind that I'm a relatively new grower, and this is my first Chilo, and Ray and Howard know tons more than I do.

Got mine in Feb., 07, mounted on sphagnum moss. In August, it got two spikes that finished sequential blooming in January.

It's in a larger vase than the one in the pix of the Ghost Orchid. Two other plants share the vase, and there are stones and water in the bottom. The vase is in the 3rd row back from big windows that face E/SE. All other conditions are "intermediate."

Here's the kicker. Somewhere, I heard Chilos need to dry completely between waterings. When the sphag is crispy, I've always sprayed it w/ spring water till it's dripping. Every third watering or so, I've sprayed it w/ MSU fertilizer - again, till it's dripping.

Take this with 5 grains of salt. That one flowering could be all this poor plant can do in my conditions. :) Or, mine may be doomed, and I don't know it yet. Or, Chilos could be most forgiving.

Ray & Howard, please let me know if you see signs of trouble here.

2/07, new plant:

{{gwi:161470}}

Blooming last October:

{{gwi:161473}}

Today:

{{gwi:161476}}

Let us know how yours does.

Whitecat8

Whitecat, You are right, the orchids in the Chilo. family generally likes to dry out between watering. I think your Chilo can take such long periods between watering because of the Sphagnum moss that it is mounted on. Where Altair & I bought ours from, it is mounted on a cork plaque with no moss under it. It dries out pretty quickly without the sphagnum moss holding the extra moisture close to the roots, so it needs the extra water every day (at least for me).

I love those cute flowers! I was looking on IOPSE to see if I could find out what region they come from to get a better idea about their climate (to see if they happen to be native to a drier region) & was not able to find this specific species of Chilo. So I did a search & found that it is actually considered a Taeniophyllum (at least on IOPSE it is). After comparing your photos, it looks most like Taeniophyllum biocellatum. I am sure there is some diffrence between this one & yours, but the flowers, inflorescence length, successive blooming, etc. seem to be right in line with how you have described yours.

If you decide to order a Chilo. Viridiflava for the scent, get it from Botanica Ltd. & make sure to ask for one with chocolate scented parents. She told me they have two different sets, one set had the fragrance, the other didn't.

I am going to have to contact Oakhill & see if they still have any of these, I like those little flowers with the two circles in the middle. Thanks for making me buy another plant =0).

-Ray-

Hi, Ray - Well, this explains the differences. Thanks for the info. I vaguely remember hearing about the other classification but didn't change my records - too exhausted from trying to find info on pygmeas. :)

Are there advantages to mounting Chilos on cork with no sphag? I didn't know I had it so easy!

Technical question - how did you search for Chilo pygmeas on IOPSE without the correct name?

Thanks for the tip about the viridiflavas.

Whitecat8

For someone like me living in an area that is warm & very humid, the sphagnum moss will definitely cause problems with rot. I destroyed my first set of ghost orchids from Oak Hill by leaving them on the Sphag. moss. Since I took the next set of Dendrophylax off the mount & put them on a piece of grapevine with some Spanish moss around them, they have done much better (other than the desiccation a couple months back). If your Chilo. is happy with the Sphag, then that is great! Just watch for sign of browning on the roots near the crown. If you've had it this long & not had rot problems, then I'd say you have it pretty well figured out =0)

When I went searching on IOPSE for Chilo pygmeas & did not find it, I began looking at the photos of flowers to see if I could find one close to it. As I was searching, I noticed under the section that says "synonyms" that Taeniophyllum was listed. I went to that section of IOPSE & found the listing of Taeniophyllum. After I found the listings for Taeniophyllum & read thru them, I googled Chilo. Pygmeas. One of the top results was a link to an orchid forum where someone said that Oakhill lists them as Chiloschista but they are technically Taeniophyllum.

If this Chilo. does produce a chocolate scent like the parents, its getting cloned =0). I know a lot of friends who would love to have that! I need to get to work on my node propagation protocols so that I can get the technique down before they start blooming!

-Ray-

Gosh, Ray, are you saying that in FL, there are less than paradise growing conditions for all orchids? LOL I wouldn't have thought about sphag causing problems. Up here, I put it on top of plants in bark to retain a bit more moisture during the winter. The grass is always greener...

Thanks for the tip about searching on IOPSE.

A small plant that smells like chocolate would be great - an alternative to Sherry Baby.

WC8

I don't know if you saw something I posted a while back (getting off subject, sorry) about finding chocolate scented orchids to build up a new collection. So far I have gotten a very nice red wine colored sherry baby, two of these chilos, a C. Chocolate Drop, & Cyc. Cooperi (not sure about the scent, but have seen somewhere it is supposed to have a chocolatey scent =0)

-Ray-

Musta missed your list, but it's preserved in Word doc now. Thanks! WC8

Hey everyone! Sorry about disappearing, the Genesee Region Orchid Society was this past weekend and I was busy volunteering. I've got some photos up at my website if anyone's interested in looking (sorry in advance for any blurry ones or repeats, I just uploaded them all without doing any sorting) :)

Here's an update - it's been almost a week and I believe I've seen a considerable improvement. I've been very diligent to soak the plant for 5 minutes in the morning and in the evening, and it looks like it's solved the problem. The dessicated roots that were spreading quickly have seem to have come to a standstill and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it recovers. Ray, Howard & Whitecat8, I can't thank you enough! :)

~altair

YAY!!!! Glad to hear it!!! Remember, you have to make a new post a few days after it blooms & let us know if it smells like chocolate!

-Ray-