I would be looking for a fertilizer with more phosphorous. I used a 14-19-14 concentrating more on producing strong root growth rather over the winter. Mine was also a starter though as I overseeded. Look for a local nursery.

Forget the phosphorus. Most soils have plenty of it, and it's immobile, so it isn't washing away with every rain. I know for a fact that soils in MO and KS are loaded with phosphorus. For fall winterizing, go with the highest N product you can get. All the lawn needs now is nitrogen, and lots of it. My turfgrass professor put it this way: "In the fall, you punch the bejeebers out of the lawn with nitrogen, the cheaper the better." He advocated for a 45-0-0 urea, and he was right. We started getting dirt-cheap granulated urea for our very last feeding around Thanksgiving. Come springtime, the lawn was amazing. (You're in my area, Chiefsfan. My turf professor consults on the turf for Arrowhead, Kauffman, K-State and MU. Best to take his advice. )

Now here is why N is so critical in the fall. You probably have a fescue lawn, and that is a bunching grass. It becomes a bunch when new blades sprout from the crown of each little plant. Those new blades emerge from little underground nubs called "tillers". The more tillers you have forming underground, the thicker your fescue lawn will be, and nitrogen is absolutely essential for tiller development. All those tillers that form over the winter will produce a blade of grass. The more, the merrier.

Tillers are forming underground as long as the ground isn't frozen. The air temps can be below freezing, but that doesn't mean the ground is frozen. We have had winters where the ground wasn't frozen all that much, so there's a party going on underground.

Nitrogen. Punch the jeebers out of it. One to 1.5 pounds of pure nitrogen per 1000 square feet. You calculate the amount of fertilizer you'll need for each 1000 ft. sq. using the percentage N on the bag. If you used 45-0-0 urea, you would use about 2.5-3 pounds of the granules per 1000 sq. ft. If you were to use that product that is 18% nitrogen, you'd need about five pounds of fertilizer per 1000 sq. ft. Make sense?

Forget the phosphorus. Most soils have plenty of it, and it's immobile, so it isn't washing away with every rain. I know for a fact that soils in MO and KS are loaded with phosphorus. For fall winterizing, go with the highest N product you can get. All the lawn needs now is nitrogen, and lots of it. My turfgrass professor put it this way: "In the fall, you punch the bejeebers out of the lawn with nitrogen, the cheaper the better." He advocated for a 45-0-0 urea, and he was right. We started getting dirt-cheap granulated urea for our very last feeding around Thanksgiving. Come springtime, the lawn was amazing. (You're in my area, Chiefsfan. My turf professor consults on the turf for Arrowhead, Kauffman, K-State and MU. Best to take his advice. )

Now here is why N is so critical in the fall. You probably have a fescue lawn, and that is a bunching grass. It becomes a bunch when new blades sprout from the crown of each little plant. Those new blades emerge from little underground nubs called "tillers". The more tillers you have forming underground, the thicker your fescue lawn will be, and nitrogen is absolutely essential for tiller development. All those tillers that form over the winter will produce a blade of grass. The more, the merrier.

Tillers are forming underground as long as the ground isn't frozen. The air temps can be below freezing, but that doesn't mean the ground is frozen. We have had winters where the ground wasn't frozen all that much, so there's a party going on underground.

Nitrogen. Punch the jeebers out of it. One to 1.5 pounds of pure nitrogen per 1000 square feet. You calculate the amount of fertilizer you'll need for each 1000 ft. sq. using the percentage N on the bag. If you used 45-0-0 urea, you would use about 2.5-3 pounds of the granules per 1000 sq. ft. If you were to use that product that is 18% nitrogen, you'd need about five pounds of fertilizer per 1000 sq. ft. Make sense?

Forget the phosphorus. Most soils have plenty of it, and it's immobile, so it isn't washing away with every rain. I know for a fact that soils in MO and KS are loaded with phosphorus. For fall winterizing, go with the highest N product you can get. All the lawn needs now is nitrogen, and lots of it. My turfgrass professor put it this way: "In the fall, you punch the bejeebers out of the lawn with nitrogen, the cheaper the better." He advocated for a 45-0-0 urea, and he was right. We started getting dirt-cheap granulated urea for our very last feeding around Thanksgiving. Come springtime, the lawn was amazing. (You're in my area, Chiefsfan. My turf professor consults on the turf for Arrowhead, Kauffman, K-State and MU. Best to take his advice. )

Now here is why N is so critical in the fall. You probably have a fescue lawn, and that is a bunching grass. It becomes a bunch when new blades sprout from the crown of each little plant. Those new blades emerge from little underground nubs called "tillers". The more tillers you have forming underground, the thicker your fescue lawn will be, and nitrogen is absolutely essential for tiller development. All those tillers that form over the winter will produce a blade of grass. The more, the merrier.

Tillers are forming underground as long as the ground isn't frozen. The air temps can be below freezing, but that doesn't mean the ground is frozen. We have had winters where the ground wasn't frozen all that much, so there's a party going on underground.

Nitrogen. Punch the jeebers out of it. One to 1.5 pounds of pure nitrogen per 1000 square feet. You calculate the amount of fertilizer you'll need for each 1000 ft. sq. using the percentage N on the bag. If you used 45-0-0 urea, you would use about 2.5-3 pounds of the granules per 1000 sq. ft. If you were to use that product that is 18% nitrogen, you'd need about five pounds of fertilizer per 1000 sq. ft. Make sense?

thanks MulchMama, yeah I live about 3 miles or so from Arrowhead. 3-0 :)
My last application was 2 weeks ago, 21 % N. I do have fescue.
Planning another shot about October 16. I have not seen 46-0-0
in the stores. Where do you get it? My yard is about 13,000 square foot or so.
I have learned not to apply N in the spring and my yard looks so nice.

This post was edited by chiefsfan on Sat, Sep 28, 13 at 20:06

Chiefsfan, wait until November, Mid-October will be too soon. Thanksgiving at the latest. You can get 45-0-0 at Grass Pad. Suburban or Family Tree might also have it. Just tell them you want their granulated urea. Water it in and do not overapply it. Apply at a rate of 1 - 1.5 pounds of N per 1000 square feet as I said above. I think for the most even application, you should apply half in one direction and then the other half in the cross direction. You might get by with just one 50# bag because the N is so high.

interesting, I have been using a modified applications local radio guru of you know who. I have been using 3 apps September, October, November 30 days apart. Where I differ is I use no nitrogen in March, April like he says. Then a shot of Milorganite on Memorial Day.

A Grass Pad is nearby and will give it a try.
I take it this shot of 45-0-0 will be the last one till May.

Chiesfan, don't get me started on the local radio guru. What's dangerous about him is that half of what he says makes sense and the other half makes me throw things at the radio or television. Plus, he's real annoying to listen to and ALWAYS selling something. I never ever buy what he promotes.

Anyway, I am attaching a link that is THE last word on the subject for this area. This is what the K-State Master Gardeners hand out to homeowners. It applies to Raytown, too.

Here is a link that might be useful: Fertilizing Kansas Lawns

This post was edited by MulchMama on Sun, Sep 29, 13 at 9:53

yeah, he his a great salesman!!! There was a tiff between him and a local hardware store....... quite comical.
Thanks for the link.
I did find out that my not applying N in early spring my lawn looked awesome.
I have been looking to reduce expenses and by doing it this way should save money and be better for the yard.

wow, just reading that link. I was close, just need to skip October.
It may be fun to call the guru and point that link out, LOL
SCotts has their 5 step but they are in the business to sell.
I like Milorganite Classic in Summer for the 4% FE it has.

Chiefsfan (4-0!!), you can't go wrong using the products from our local garden centers. Forget the national brands. We get terrific seed blands and mixes and very good fertilizers at good prices. You couldn't get me to touch a bag of Scott's, because of price, and also because you have no control over how much pesticide or herbicide you put down. We do a pre-emergent for crabgrass in the spring (I think Grass Pad sells the pre-emergent without the fertilizer), and after that, we only spot treat once or twice. We never broadcast herbicides.

Interesting to hear the local guru is at odds with his hardware store benefactors. Hmmm!!

Glad you liked the K-State handout, and I'm impressed that your feeding schedule was so close to their recommendations. You're correct -- it doesn't need to be as expensive as Scott's makes it.

4-0!!! :)
I bought the straight Scott's for dirt cheap. Other wise it is way pricey and I dont buy it. I never use weed and feed crap. I spot spray and use a non nitrogen pre emergent in the spring. SO hard to find that. Lesco has a 0-0-7 with Dimension.

The tiff was very interesting, if you are signed up with Tobys site they sent a email yesterday about it or I can send you it off the board.
I have been reading a lot and adjusting how I take care of my 2 lawns.
I believe those 5 step programs cause turf issues and of course they sell the remedy.......
I found the 46-0-0 for $35 for a 50# bag.