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mcaren_gw

Bug Gardening (so bummed)

19 years ago

I sure feel from a few of the posters in the last couple of months that have been discouraged by the extent of their efforts to garden organically and the poor results that followed...

After having my garden mostly destroyed by squash vine borers and more fungi than I can identify I decided to try a fall garden. I planted spinach, lettuce, yellow squash and a few other things that never germinated. Things looked promising for the first three weeks, but this week we've been invaded by caterpillars -- some of my baby lettuces have five or more barely visible caterpillars on a leaf (some of them are about 1/3 the size and width of a grain of rice). Most are inch worm-type caterpillars, and boy are they camouflaged. I've been sitting beside my plants with large-magnification glasses on trying find them, and although I've collected at least 30 a day my garden still looks like Swiss cheese.

But, the most discouraging thing of all is that we've got a new crop of squash vine borers -- this is the third "crop" this year (at least I think so -- I tried two separate plantings during the summer that were over a month apart and got them each time...).

I had doused the garden and surrounding area with corn meal in hopes to prevent what I think is powdery mildew on the new squash crop and that didn't work -- the squash vine borers are eating the stems and the mildew is taking care of the blossoms...

I've heard people say that it takes a few years to get the soil healthy so the plants will be resistant, but I don't know how ANYTHING could withstand this onslaught.

I live in Virginia Beach -- does this sound like a typical season of pests and disease, or is this unusual? I've only lived here two years but have never seen pest populations like this. Are you supposed to have squash vine borers munching away during Halloween?

Thanks. I appreciate the organic gardening advice and hope to one day have some success -- but it would appear that this is not the year for it...

mcaren

Comments (15)

  • 19 years ago

    You might try spraying BT against the worms eating your lettuce. I know my cucumbers tend to look better after I spray. The bugs have gotten me down a bit this season (my first year gardening in FL.) But after I spend a day feeling overwhelmed I find that in some instances the world levels back off and I realize that though I've lost one crop, there is a different one that is doing ok.

    For the powdery mildew, milk might be a better cure than cornmeal. Neem oil is also supposed to be good against powdery mildew but it can also be bad for bees so I wouldn't spray the flowers with neem.

    Most of the vine borrers I've had went after the young vine tips on the cucumbers instead of the squash.

    I've had squash bugs, leaf footed bugs and stink bugs as well. For those I've taken to bringing a vacuum out into the garden.

    Suprise, the tomatoes have gotten very little attention but seem to be having only minor pest problems.

    I've just done a bit of a clean out of some hot weather fall crops and am getting ready to plant cool weather stuff here soon.

  • 19 years ago

    What is your soil like?
    Have you had a soil test, for nutrient balance and pH done?
    How much organic matter is in that soil?
    What kind of life is in your soil, earthworms?
    What does your soil smell like?
    How does your soil hold together?
    Contact your local office of the Virginia State University/Virginia Tech USDA Cooperative Extension Service about having a good, reliable soil test done and dig in with these simple soil test,
    1) Structure. From that soil sample put enough of the rest to make a 4 inch level in a clear 1 quart jar, with a tight fitting lid. Fill that jar with water and replace the lid, tightly. Shake the jar vigorously and then let it stand for 24 hours. Your soil will settle out according to soil particle size and weight. A good loam will have about 1-3/4 inch (about 45%) of sand on the bottom. about 1 inch (about 25%) of silt next, about 1 inch (25%) of clay above that, and about 1/4 inch (about 5%) of organic matter on the top.

    2) Drainage. Dig a hole 1 foot square and 1 foot deep and fill that with water. After that water drains away refill the hole with more water and time how long it takes that to drain away. Anything less than 2 hours and your soil drains too quickly and needs more organic matter to slow that drainage down. Anything over 6 hours and the soil drains too slowly and needs lots of organic matter to speed it up.

    3) Tilth. Take a handful of your slightly damp soil and squeeze it tightly. When the pressure is released the soil should hold together in that clump, but when poked with a finger that clump should fall apart.

    4) Smell. What does your soil smell like? A pleasant, rich earthy odor? Putrid, offensive, repugnant odor? The more organic matter in your soil the more active the soil bacteria will be and the nicer you soil will smell.

    5) Life. How many earthworms per shovel full were there? 5 or more indicates a pretty healthy soil. Fewer than 5, according to the Natural Resources Conservation Service, indicates a soil that is not healthy.
    to see what more needs be done.
    With a soil that has been abused for years getting it back into a good, healthy condition can take time, but adding compost and organic matter, mulching to conserve soil moisture, suppress weed growth, and help keep the soil cooler can be of major help even at the start.
    Identify the pests you have and using the Integrated Pest Management practices, starting any control necessary with the least toxic method will encourage the insect predators to move in and help you control the pests.
    It can be a bit discouraging, and overwhelming, getting started but in time, with patience, things will get better.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Virginia CES offices

  • 19 years ago

    Thank you both for your comments. I have not yet had my soil tested -- not that I don't think it's a good idea [I do], but just recognizing that we probably would not devote any time to doing much about it for about 4 months (lots of remodeling/other stuff going on). As a matter of fact part of my interest in planting a fall garden was hoping that I could ignore it a bit more; I was expecting fewer pests.

    Also, I don't mean to sound like I'm an anti-organic whiny I-don't-want-to-work gardener; I do believe in trying to keep our planet as healthy as possible; I am just shocked at the results of all of our labor. I have never spent so much time (during the summer) researching, hand-picking bugs, and trying to improve our soil and have never had such a poor crop.

    As far as the soil goes, however, it's a raised bed with sort of hand-picked dirt (much of it bagged organic topsoil & compost). We've added sand and our own compost + fish fertilizers. It might not be ideal, but it shouldn't be awful I wouldn't think... We've definitely got earthworms and the soil smells like dirt -- not bad. The soil under the raised garden is hard as a rock and contains lots of clay; we couldn't even get a tiller to penetrate it (hence the raised bed). I'm hoping that lots of compost will help with that... The soil above the hard stuff is about 10 inches deep.

    There is one part of the "improve the soil=disease/pest-resistant plants" equation that I just don't get. I can certainly see the logic behind the notion that healthy soil would lead to plants that could better fight off diseases. But how in the heck would a healthy plant be able to fight off 3-5 caterpillars per leaf, or 2 or 3 vine borers in every stem? I can't see how a healthy plant would be any more likely to prevent insect eggs from hatching and eating or boring into the plant.

    I'm just trying to brace myself for next year -- I'm going to pursue improving the soil (at least in a few months I will), but would like to know if I'll need other powerful weapons if I'm to battle the bugs...

    Thanks again. mcaren

  • 19 years ago

    I think that its more that pests are attracted to unhealthy plants, when a plant is stressed it gives off some--"anti-pheromone"(hee) thingy stuff that bugs can sense. I think they dont notice the healthy plants? If I was a bug tho, Id rather eat the healthy plant myself! rofl!

    Im sure the science people here will know the real answer tho.

  • 19 years ago

    There is ample research out there that shows that plants growing in a good, healthy soil are less prone to insext and disease attack. Many garden writers, Ann Lovejoy, Lee Reich, Rebecca Coles, and more, are writing that plants growing in good, healthy soil are less prone to insects and diseases. There is some research, by Dr. Phil Calahan, that indicated that plants under stress emit signals that attract insect pests, unfortunately because of his latter research into paramagnetism most of what he wrote earlier has been pooh poohed as coming from an adled person.

  • 19 years ago

    I've been reminded not to get too worked up over a poor harvest due to pests, weather, and other garden problems.

    mcaren,
    Did you manage to get any harvest this year? Did anything do well?

    Remember that this is all a learning experience. When one season's garden is dismal then either do things differently next year or if you can pinpoint weather as the underlying problem then perhaps next year will sort it's self out. Different crops might do better during different seasons for you. Adjust planting dates to try and avoid pests that migrate into your area late (There are many pests that migrate North during the summer and so might cause you more trouble in a fall garden than in a spring garden.)
    BT does work on leaf eating caterpillars and worms, you just have to apply regularly. The vine borers are a bit more challenging.

    Remember that bagged soil is often pretty sterile. Therefore, even though it is hand picked soil, it will take some time for the beneficial microbes to make their way in there.

    I don't know how big your garden is. Mine is pretty spread out since I tended to follow long lines of the irrigation system so I could hook up drip irrigation for my gardens. This might have made a longer edge to deal with weeds but it spread things out under different conditions so I could see what plants like more shade or more sun during different seasons in my climate. -I'm thinking that the things that wanted more shade during the earily fall might be able to grow in full sun in late fall so long as we don't get a freeze before they are done.-

    Anyway, don't get too discouraged. Remember, even if the plants do poorly you still get something to feed to your compost. Keep trying different things. If you are thinking it will be too busy a season for you to baby special plants, perhaps you should just grow a cover crop that season to improve your soil and help keep the weeds down. There are many cover crops that can be pretty as well (like maragolds.) Others can help attract beneficial insects. (FYI, a cover crop can be just about anything, you should make your choice based on what you want it to do, what is available, if you want it to winter kill, If you want any harvest from it, and how you need to deal with it to prepare for the next planting cycle. Some things shouldn't be mowed down until after they flower but before they seed in order to get rid of them.)

    Anyway, you will have to decide how much effort you want to put into gardening, remember it should still be fun and rewarding. Only do as much as you really want. Try new things, move stuff around, play with it.

  • 19 years ago

    I can understand your disappointment and frustration, mcaren.

    All of the Bacillus thuringiensis are approved organic pesticides and Organic Materials Research Institute (OMRI) listed - Bt aizawai, Bt kurstaki, Bt tenebrionis. Additionally, pyrethrins and rotenone are approved insecticides. Insecticidal soaps are effective against soft-bodied insects. I have experienced effective results using these products. I do not have experience with some of the other approved insecticides but they may be effective also.

    Soil with adequate tilth, moisture, and nutrients and without substances toxic to plants encourage plant health. Healthy plants usually grow rapidly and can recover from damage better than unhealthy plants. Damaged plant tissue is vulnerable to attack by some organisms.

    This idea that healthful plants will resist any insect damage makes little sense to me. Insects are hungry organisms. Humans are hungry organisms. If we find a plant tender, sweet and tasty  why would it be that insects would find it otherwise?

    Even if your garden is entirely pest-free at the beginning of the growing season, it is not an isolated environment. Often pests from elsewhere easily invade. You should be able to successfully protect your vegetables. Research these products to better understand their safe use and what pests they can control.

    Steve

  • 19 years ago

    If those beds are primarily made from bagged "topsoil" and compost you really want to test it and you will be amazed at what you find. I'd not be surprised that you find mostly what you have is sand and a little organic matter.

  • 19 years ago

    Powdery Mildew is quite often caused by the soil being allowed to get very dry and then to be way over-watered. The back and forth conditions causes the mildew to bloom. It can also be caused by poor draining soil, I'm thinking it could be your hard clay soil only 10 inches away from the crown of your plants.

    That could have been the point when you plants became targets for the insects.

    The next crop, try to improve your drainage. I've heard of people who drove steel rods into the clay, over and over to provide the water a place to channel into and away from the plants.

    You don't want to plant the same crops in the same places, because if the soil is infected, it will reinfect those new plants.

  • 19 years ago

    Is it possible you need more birds? I am new to gardening, but I would think more birds might be good for eating pests. Just an idea.

  • 19 years ago

    lhafken not a silly suggestion at all. I actively encourage birds into my garden and they do eat pests constantly as part of their diet. macaren, the first few years of gardening organically are usually the hardest because it does take a few years for things to get back into balance. a healthy garden does have pests, but there are a variety of pests which compete with each other, prey on each other etc. the more diversity of bugs you have, the more birds that will also be attracted to the garden to feed on bugs aswell.

    sometimes though, you do need to spot treat certain outbreaks and you'll need to do this more in the early stages than later when a natural balance is more established.

  • 19 years ago

    Thank you all for your helpful input. I guess I do need to concentrate on the positive; I have learned a lot and did get some produce (a surprising amount of tomatoes considering the multitude of symptoms they had and how awful they looked!). I also agree that since I was learning as I went along I did not do as much preventative work as I should have. But, as I said -- I am absolutely floored at the variety, sheer volume and length of duration of the pests and diseases I've seen.

    I'm going to study hard this winter and look closely at my options; the idea of planting a cover crop sounds like a plan... Although it hasn't been tested yet, it would appear that we've got very acidic soil; we've got azaleas, rhododendron, sassafras, dogwood, holly, and camelia growing like weeds. We've got more ground ivy than grass, which I understand thrives in poor-draining soil and shade -- we've got both. Although I know there are methods I can use to alter the PH of our property, I don't know if that's necessarily wise; the local community is working hard to revive oyster beds and our property is in this area (adjacent to the water). I would think that leaving the area "as is" would probably be more beneficial in that regard.

    So, perhaps I just need to either find edible plants that prefer soggy acidic soil or try some other form of gardening... Maybe I can successfully grow a few vegetables in containers...

    Anyway, thanks again for your advice. mcaren

  • 19 years ago

    All of the above are good reasons to talk with the people at your local Virginia State University/Virginia Tech USDA Cooperative Extension Service office and at your local Soil conservation Service/Natural Resouces Conservation Service office. They are there to help you and you have paid for their services already so you might as well use them.
    There are those here that will tell you to stay away from those places because they do not give good, organic advice. They do not give good organic advice because they are not asked those questions. If more organic grdeners would visit and ask questions of these places they would give good organic advice, but if only those that want to use synthetic fertilizers and spray poisons around ask them questions they will not spend the time finding alternatives, although many of the horticulturists are organic gardeners.

  • 18 years ago

    You might also look for some perennial vegetables plants appropriate to your conditions. I just read a book on Perennial Vegetables by Eric Toensmeier that I checked out from the library. It has some really interesting plants in it.

    There are many veggies that like acidic conditions. Cucumbers and potatoes are a couple I can think of right off.

    With a few years of adding lots of organic matter and compost to your soil you will probably be able to grow most veggies since large amounts of Organic matter will help buffer the pH to a usable range for most plants. In the mean time, containers are an option but I've even had good luck simply digging a hole or trench and dumping compost in and planting right in that for the plants that don't like the native conditions.

    Good luck in the future.

  • 18 years ago

    Strawberries like acidic conditions.

    (You can never go wrong suggesting strawberries.)