thanks. good link.

Hi All, in the left hand margin Rhodale says the following: "The pros and cons of no-till cover crop management
The potential advantages of this system include greater cover crop biomass production (since it is allowed to grow until a week or so before vegetable planting), and much less loss of organic matter through tillage. Together, these can greatly enhance annual organic inputs and thereby support higher levels of 'active organic matter,' which correlates closely with soil quality. In addition, the cover crop mulch conserves soil moisture, curbs weed seed germination, and provides habitat for ground-dwelling predators of insect pests.
On the other hand, continuous no-till can eventually lead to perennial weed problems or cause some soils to become somewhat compacted. Thus organic growers may need to practice 'rotational tillage,' working the soil before planting cover crops in some years. Research results at The Rodale Institute Experimental Farm suggest that this may be the case. How often tillage is needed and whether soil quality can still improve under rotational tillage are two of the questions Morse's research will address.
One other possible drawback is that the cover crop mulch will keep soil temperatures lower so that the system may not work where early harvests are desired, especially for warm season crops. However, later plantings of the same crops may benefit from the soil-cooling and moisture-conserving effects of mulch, especially in hot climates or in drought years."

Even Rhodale admits of some problems with no-till. Cover crops under any tilling plan are desirable. Choose your cover carefully or you may have a new weed problem. Best regards.

PaGardener, The old perception that 'clean' tillage is essential no doubt is the most destructive of soils. It not only destroys organism communities but defeats the organic matter return, exposes soils to erosions, and continues the weeds cycles.
Reduced tillage is a logical option. Less soil disturbance is the goal while also maintaining maximum soil coverage.
I can see definite advantages while the disadvantages are not insurmountable. Thus I follow the research and trials.

Any crop that goes to seed for harvest is a weed potential within a rotation.

And one should keep in mind the difference between large acreages and small plots. The size of the farm can have a bearing on the practise utilized.

Lloyd

In their book, "Better Soils for Better Crops" Magdoff and van Es talk about what tilling does to soils and the advantages of no till. I know some farmers around here that practice no till with far fewer "weed" problems then do their neighbors that still till.

Here is a link that might be useful: Better Soils for Better Crops

Sure nuff. I found it isn't easy to keep a 1/4 acre of corn clean by hoe. Also weeds tend to compete better than covers.

Oats sown in August after an early crop of sweet corn that has been chopped up well works well. It can be planted fairly early in the spring.

I noticed that the field crops at Rodale when they tried to kill rye didn't work all that well oftentimes. First of all they waited to rather late to "kill" the cover crop. Sometimes it did not kill well. Then it often turns off drier about that time and the seeds don't make good germination.

There is no better, no more credible testiment to the distruction of tillage than "Faulkner, Edward H. Plowman's Folly"

It a pdf format requiring registration to access to this otherwise free library. Simply name and email address will get you the source address by email. By concent to the access agreement I will not post that source so register or find a local hard copy source.

It is a fulfilling read.

Edward Faulkner's book is very interesting. I'm not sure that his two years of limited farming experience with no ploughing on his own rented ground is sufficient to come to all the conclusions he seemed to come to. Still, we can learn from it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Some Good Reads including Ploughman's Folly

LLoyd is right when he says the size of the plot is important to keep in mind when considering the practices used. Here in Ohio the no till for larger farms became a popular method. The downside was that more herbicides were being used to combat weeds plus soil compaction creating water runoff. Now, the farmers are tilling again, many now using chissel plows. My daughter worked on a 10 acre organic vegetable farm in southern Ohio for a couple of summers. they utilized horses to plow and cultivate. There were 6 to 8 helpers that pulled weeds most of the time. The owner did most of the harvesting. They had less than 40% of the crop make it to market. This farm had been in product for about 15 years. Draw your own conclusions. But, the bottom line in agriculture is the ability to realize a profit over time or maybe for some it's just an expensive hobby.

Luke

We would practice no-till here if the worms would till for us. The tilled, fluffy soil here compacts after just one irrigation & gets very hard. We have added tons of org. matter but that gets to be too much labor. Now I grow various cover crops, mostly clovers, rotate crops & till beds before planting. Also mow the clover regularly. Amazing how many creatures thrive with the mowed cover decomposing as a basis for food chain. Less tilling here means less weeds from my experience.

I have raised lasagna beds, so I add organic material almost every year to almost every bed. Tilling makes no sense in this technique. I have only one bed where I have noticed soil compaction, that may relate to the sides of the bed being concrete bricks. I think they get very hot and sort of melt the soil!

The worst weed we have here is quack grass. Tilling wouldn't do a gosh darn thing to it, the roots go deep and spread every which way. All you can do is slow it down regardless of method. Herbicides might slow it down, but I am organic, and this isn't the kind of weed that would care about a soap spray or anything friendly like that.

Marcia

You dont need to till just use a subsoiler when the ground gets too compact which it eventually does. Thats what we are doing. very easy.

Tilled soil, which is still more prevalent in U.S. argriculture than no-till, tends to result in soil erosion -- consider the color of the Mississipi. Now the degree of erosion differs with differing slope, soil, and climate, but a rough and ready average figure is 5 tons a year per acre. The rate of soil formation is similarly different and generally unknown, but 1/2 ton a year per acre is an optimistic estimate. Clearly the rate of net soil loss thus indicated is unsustainable, so I am very sympathetic with the no-tillers. The snag is that, as generally employed, no-till needs high levels of weed killer application. There is an organic approach, however: growing over-winter cover crops, flattening them with a roller-crimper before planting, and cutting seed into the cover with a no-till planter. Regards, Peter.