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Please help!!!!!! Hard/clay soil

14 years ago

I am a two season beginner who, surprisingly, has had some great crops with the little knowledge I have. I have a few large patches which have seemed to get harder (now ROCK hard) than last year, though I have added more organic compost that the previous year and water sufficiently. All my plants seem to grow in this though, but they do take far longer that they should. I have read so much online and I wish someone could give me some encouragement. I have 22 corn, 35 tomato, peas(which are now yellow but still flowering), cabbage, beets, carrots.....WHY IS THE SOIL GETTING HARDER?????? CAN I FIX THIS WHILE PLANTS ARE STILL GROWING??????

I really want to take it to the next level!!!!

Johnny Australia

Comments (22)

  • 14 years ago

    If it ain't broke, don't fix it! Sorry, couldn't help myself. Do you mulch? What about growing cover crops (clover) in with the vegetables? Planting in rows or beds? Beds or even wide rows might help. The beauty of clay soil is moisture retention.

    Anyway--Yay, Johnny!!! You are trying and I salute you.

  • 14 years ago

    How much organic matter is in your soil? Some organic matter is a little better then none but can make the soil seem to get worse. Soils need between 5 and 8 percent organic matter, and that can seem to be a lot of vegetative waste, compost.
    Mulching soils, with little organic matter in the soil can create more problems then it solves.
    These simple soil tests may be of some help,
    1) Soil test for organic matter. From that soil sample put enough of the rest to make a 4 inch level in a clear 1 quart jar, with a tight fitting lid. Fill that jar with water and replace the lid, tightly. Shake the jar vigorously and then let it stand for 24 hours. Your soil will settle out according to soil particle size and weight. For example, a good loam will have about 1-3/4 inch (about 45%) of sand on the bottom. about 1 inch (about 25%) of silt next, about 1 inch (25%) of clay above that, and about 1/4 inch (about 5%) of organic matter on the top.

    2) Drainage. Dig a hole 1 foot square and 1 foot deep and fill that with water. After that water drains away refill the hole with more water and time how long it takes that to drain away. Anything less than 2 hours and your soil drains� too quickly and needs more organic matter to slow that drainage down. Anything over 6 hours and the soil drains too slowly and needs lots of organic matter to speed it up.

    3) Tilth. Take a handful of your slightly damp soil and squeeze it tightly. When the pressure is released the soil should hold together in that clump, but when poked with a finger that clump should fall apart.

    4) Smell. What does your soil smell like? A pleasant, rich earthy odor? Putrid, offensive, repugnant odor? The more organic matter in your soil the more active the soil bacteria will be and the nicer your soil will smell.

    5) Life. How many earthworms per shovel full were there? 5 or more indicates a pretty healthy soil. Fewer than 5, according to the Natural Resources Conservation Service, indicates a soil that is not healthy.

  • 14 years ago

    Clay soil contains extremely fine sand. This sand bonds together like cement when dry. Organic matter is a must but in time it decomposes. So it must be replenished often.
    To make this more permanent the addition of course sand or perlite will help. On sodic clays gypsum helps.
    Large ares of ground should be treated the same or raised to prevent the bucket full of water syndrome. Clay soil do not drain well and plans can literally drown.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Soil Myths

  • 14 years ago

    I think I'd try a Soil and clay loosener

  • 14 years ago

    There are many different soils and conditions so .....

    Calcium tends to loosen soils and magnesium tends to tighten soils....cloddy, lumpy, and wet....the kind of soil that has 30 minutes to work it after a rain where it isn't too wet and then too hard.

    Personally, I like peat moss to loosen soils...also coarse sand with the peat is sometimes even better.

  • 14 years ago

    Clay soils are not extremely fine sand particles although they are extremely fine mineral particles. Soil particles are classified as clay, small and uniform particle3s that fit together quite well. Silt, larger and not quite as uniform in shape. Sand the largest and least uniform in shape.
    Adding sand to clay soils may help, provided enough sand is added. Organic matter in soils is digested by the Soil Food Web to provide nutrients to the plants growing there, so yes it does "decompose" or "disappear" and does need to be replenished often. The mineral component of soil, the sand, silt, and clay, provide very little in the way of nutrients to plants. Peat moss does not provide any nutrients to plants and the Soil Food Web does not digest that material which is why it stays in soils so long.
    The only soil gypsum will really help is sodic clay soil, clay soils in arid parts of the world where too little rainfall washes the salts that accumulate in soils away.

  • 14 years ago

    "extremely fine sand" is pretty close to an oxymoron.

  • 14 years ago

    For the person who has that hard, wet, lumpy soil in spring and early summer that makes it hard to even plant seeds nicely, I suggest making a small trial plot with 40% [existing] topsoil, 30% peat moss, 30% coarsish sand, and some organic matter. Mix it all together well and try that.

  • 14 years ago

    kimm,

    The good thing about that peat moss that adds little to nutrients ...is ..that is stays there year after year making the soil nice and loose.

  • 14 years ago

    You are developing hardpan, which is a build up of various salts in the soil ... as well as watering "sufficiently", you occasionally have to water to excess to flush the salts down below the root level. It's common in semi tropical and tropical climates.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardpan

    Pile on all the organic material you can find, as long as it's not feedlot manure or treated with herbicides: tree chips, fallen leaves, coffee grounds, etc.

    Mulch thickly

  • 14 years ago

    Peat moss is not very far from coal, all that is needed to convert peat moss into coal is some time and pressure. Why add to your soil something the Soil Food Web will not digest and use to feed your plants?

  • 14 years ago

    Why add peatmoss? Simply because it lasts for years and years as a soil medium that makes the soil looser. kimm, not everyone starts from a sand base that is loose

  • 14 years ago

    I have to agree with wayne although peat moss is not the best because of it's harvesting rate. With that said, I use peat to start beds in clay soil and I would highly suggest it. The next cheapest thing would be your own made compost which some people including mysefy simpley dont have space to do it to be able keep up with our gardens constant need for nutrients. When it comes to gardening for most ease and economics is the main thing thats important, buying peat is a easy cost effect way to loosen hard soil.

  • 14 years ago

    Hey, thanks for all the advice. I am consistently mulching now....and will take a harder look when I harvest this patch in a couple months. I tend to agree with the comment "If it ain't broke....don't fix it".....There are a plethora of worms in my soil and everything thrives....though initially they may take a bit longer as the roots try to push through. It is just hard to work and I envy my neighbours softer soil texture.

    I have done a few tests and it actually isn't full clay. We just get some erratic weather here in Southern Australia which may account for it. (i.e. down pour monsoon style rains and then two days of 100 degrees and back again to the COLD RAINY DAYS)

    It is already looking and feeling better as the mulch settles a bit. Thanks for everyones time.

  • 14 years ago

    With Lazy Gardens advice, you'll be amazed at the difference in a year or two. I've gone from hard pan to black soil that looks like vermicompost.

  • 14 years ago

    Peat moss in an arid climate does NOT work. If it dries out, it has all the soil enhancing properties of shredded plastic.

  • 14 years ago

    lazygardens,

    Are you talking about peatmoss that is well incorporated into the soil along with organic matter or just peatmoss laying on top of the soil?

  • 14 years ago

    "Peat moss in an arid climate does NOT work. If it dries out, it has all the soil enhancing properties of shredded plastic. "

    Very true.

    Yes organic matter, with a good mulch, can change the soil.


    Look up greening the desert on you tube.

  • 14 years ago

    Wayne - Either one. If it's incorporated into the soil and the soil dries out, it acts like the binder in adobe bricks. If it's on top, you may as well have a layer of styrofoam pellets.

    Other kinds of organic matter are far better around here.

  • 14 years ago

    Yes if you would check out "Greening the Desert"..

    "Other kinds of organic matter are far better around here."

    ...you will see they used pigeon manure along with other things.
    : )

    You can learn so much about gardening when you know how to green a desert!!!!

  • 14 years ago

    Who ever said it, it is not sand but minerals is correct and thank you for the correction. It can include very fine sand, and course for that matter. As far at it being an oximoron please explain. Sand particles can be so fine that you can breath them in as dust. That is how people get Silicosis.
    As far as peatmoss goes, it is far more expensive than sand in the amounts needed, especially when you add the cost of repeated use. As far as the longevity well I did a little research and found it does not last as long as some indicated on here. That could be the invironment I guess.
    I have aquired (free)a very large volume of peatmoss mixed with course sand and perlite. Mixed with my pH7.8 clay soil it has done wonders. In many areas I have applied it on the surface. After just a couple of weeks the number of large clay worms under it was astonishing.
    There were far more than what I ever saw under mulch or compost.

  • 14 years ago

    I have stated my beliefs many times on this subject.
    The subject has cause more in fighting/ disagreements then anything other then the use of chemicals.
    So to get the whole story search at the top of the page & on the compost site.
    I am for cutting as deep as you can in as big of a bed as you can. Then mix in organic matter.
    You can use sand, but you will need 50-75% sand & it adds nothing to the bed but drainage.
    OM will help the plant.
    If you have a lot of free time Google "DRY WELL".