I think the pond water would be great for your plants! Really nutritious, in fact.

When I drain my pond in the spring - if I have fishes, I put them in a cooler over night and still add dechlorinator to the refilled pond. I could probably just do one or the other, but I don't like to take chances since I have bad luck keeping those suckers alive anyway.

I've left my fish in the pond while draining it, without any problems. A little bit of muck is OK and acts as your "starter" to get the water balanced again. I let the pump run onto the lawn and also pull by 5 gal pail. I leave a couple of inches in the deepest spot so the fish don't get too stressed, and start running a hose once I reach that level. I'm on a well, so I don't worry about chlorine. Don't go for spotless, just get the majority of big stuff out.

Lots of questions. Why don't you want to use your pump to pick up the muck? That is how it is sent to filters. Why don't you have a filter? What materials are you going to use. For example, mortar needs more time than silicone. That is not all that much water. I pump out that much when I do any serious water changes. Can't you direct it to some shrubs or trees? I would worry about putting it into the bathtub drain.
The fishies can go into a kiddy pool or a garbage can. If the can has been cleaned don't use it directly. Line it with a plastic bag. Put a small pump and filter in it. Look at Adam's filter. It would be the least expensive for you. Sandy

Lots of questions. Why don't you want to use your pump to pick up the muck? That is how it is sent to filters. Why don't you have a filter? What materials are you going to use. For example, mortar needs more time than silicone. That is not all that much water. I pump out that much when I do any serious water changes. Can't you direct it to some shrubs or trees? I would worry about putting it into the bathtub drain.
The fishies can go into a kiddy pool or a garbage can. If the can has been cleaned don't use it directly. Line it with a plastic bag. Put a small pump and filter in it. Look at Adam's filter. It would be the least expensive for you. Sandy

I suggest you change gears and stop thinking "drain the pond" and just think about the muck. A wet-or-dry vacuum can easily suck up the muck and only remove fifty to hundred gallons of water. Just try to suck the muck out without getting the fish in the vac. If you move slowly with the vac, the fish will stay out of the way. You don't need to scrub anything, and you certainly don't need to use any cleaners.

Okay I am changing gears. Actually maybe I should back up and explain better my reasons for draining and what I want to achieve, both short and long term.

We had this put in late last summer. It is raised brick with a liner and measures 6x6 x 2'. It does not have a filter, only a pump to circulate the water through the fountain. I went solely on the advice of the company that installed the whole thing, but I really wonder how much most people who sell pond equipment know about what works and what doesn't. I am open to any suggestions, but I really do not want some overly complicated setup if I dont have to.

I don't require that my water be crystal clear, in fact I don't want to be able to see all the way to the bottom and see all the pots, etc. Right now I just have a few water iris, 3 water lilies, and some parrot feather left from last year. I plan to add some water hyacinth to cover more of the surface. I had duck weed last year, but the fish ate it so much that I wonder if it would be better to have them feed off the other stuff in the pond to help keep it clean.

The pond is green and it stinks. I can't see the fish unless they are close to the surface. I am on medication that suppresses my immune system and I am not about to wade into that stuff. If I have to I can just get it down to the point that I can put on rubber boots and wade in, but I don't want my entire arms even submerged. I have to be able to see what I am doing and I can't even see through all that nasty water. I piled up bricks to set the plants on and have several pillars in there where I thought I wanted plants but I don't now. I also need to get behind the fountain to elevate the pump so it doesn't clog up like it has done continuously over the last few months.

I donÂt plan to scrub anything at all. I just want the water to be clearer than it is and to be able to remove some of the accumulated mess on the bottom. Is that really necessary to do very often? DoesnÂt it sink and settle down there and stay out of the way somewhat?

My best plan of action so far is to pump out some of the water to get it to a level that I can deal with (just below rubber boots-IÂm not going to suit up like I am going trout fishing) and go rent a shop vac and work on the bottom while the pump is going. It seems that I cannot find a shop vac locally that you can attach a hose to, so I guess I will be doing alot of dumping while I am vacuuming. I would imagine it fills up rather quickly. I'll just move the hose around and water the lawn and trees, shrubs, etc. I guess it looks like more water to me than it really is.

IÂll leave the fish in there. Are they going to be alright when I fill the pond back up and dechlorinate? DonÂt they need to be out of the Ânew water for about 24 hours? I just donÂt want to throw them into shock and lose them all. If I do take them out I like the bag in the can idea.

25 relatives are coming in from out of town this weekend and all of them are going to be standing around this stinking mess Saturday night drinking cocktails. I have got to do something.

Any short-term or long-term suggestions are more than welcome.

Thanks so much!

What kind of fish have you got in there and how many? A filter would help water quality and reduce odor long term.

De-chlor works instantly. If you put your fish in a tub while you clean out the pond, just add the dechlor as you refill the pond and it will be ready for fish within a few minutes, as soon as the water is circulated. Make sure to get the right kind of dechlorinator depending on if your source water contains chlorine or chloramines.

Plants love dirty pond water--it's loaded with nutrients. You will probably notice new growth on your plants within a few weeks. They will be happy.

1. Kiddie pool; fill with pond water.
2. net to grap fish as they come into view.
3. Pump to pump water out into non-used area of yard/flower (plant) beds.
4. Plastic snow shovel - to shovel the bottom out.
5. Wheel barrel - to remove the crud to a place in your yard far away from noses. (good for plant growth; bad for noses).
6.De-clor - for adding to new water.

You comment:
"Is that really necessary to do very often? Doesnt it sink and settle down there and stay out of the way somewhat?".

No and no; it doesn't "stay" down there. It's organic; it breaks down; it "festers"; it produces nasty little bubbles (help me out here... hydrogen sulfite?)Thats kills living things...fast.

Please do not take offense from my statement.

Regarding the green water. The stuff on the bottom supplies nutrients to feed the green algae. Three actions could be taken: A.) Nothing - sounds like you doing that at present and you do not like the results. B.) An U.V. system (between your pump and the fountain - probably too much for your needs/wants. C.) More plants; especially floating plants. These plants will compete for the nutrients and generlly starve the algae.

Whatever you do; best of luck with it.

LP

hoovb, I have about 8 goldfish left that are 2-3" long. From a formula that I have found, it appears that I need 72" of fish for 36 square feet of surface water, so I am going to need more fish.

I am using Stress Coat which is what everyone around here has recommended.

The pump that a friend loaned me would not hold a prime and was a slow trickle. In desperation I rented a sump pump at 7:00 last night. I am looking at a shop vac that has a pump and you can hook your garden hose up to it to send the water where you want. This would serve 2 purposes: regular vacuuming and draining the pond when I need to. Slow will be fine in the future. No more deadlines for cleaning this thing out!

LP, After getting real up close and personal with my water and the stuff on the bottom, I have a better idea of what is really down there. Lots of oak leaves, branches, and acorns. Until the leaves fell I plucked what I could find out of there about twice a day (I love my pond!) and then I put a net on when the leaves fell. The biggest problem is the way that I had my plants set on stacks of bricks to elevate them: there is no way to scoop out the bottom periodically with that kind of setup. Too difficult to remove (and then I would be wading in the water) and everything collects around them. I have some plastic tables and buckets that I could weight down with the bricks that I could easily remove to scoop in the future. Plus, I don't really want alot of plants in pots other than about 3 water lilies and a couple of iris. The rest will be floaters.

I don't think that my water is as 'green' as it is 'brown' and very murky, and it really didn't stink as bad as I thought. More like a river or lake smell. The stuff I scooped out was pretty stinky, but overall the water was not so bad. I could not see more than about 4" before I stirred everything up and then it was worse.

I let the 3" deep water that the sump pump wouldn�t remove settle overnight and it is crystal clear with a layer of what looks like dirt on the bottom. I'll vacuum what I can of that out of the bottom and move on. I guess I thought that was what was on the bottom and not all this other disgusting stuff. How naive of me. I am guessing that any dirt that winds up in the bottom is okay, but the other gunk is what I need to worry about scooping out.

I am rethinking a filter, and wondering about the rate that the water is being pumped through the fountain. Don't I need to move a certain amount of water in an hour? I have about 450 gallons and the pump I have moves 210 gallons per hour, and I was planning to clamp it off a bit so that it would move slower since the fountain should trickle, not shoot water out. I am including a link so you can see. It just looks odd to have the water spraying out of an urn. I have tried to move the pipe down so it will hit the side of the urn before coming out, but it won't budge and I don't want to mess up the fountain.

The way this is set up, with the higher wall behind the fountain, anything that I put behind there would be a bit difficult to get to, but an external filter could be hidden behind the fountain. There is only a hole in the brick wall that is big enough for the cord for the pump to go through and not much more. None of this may matter, but I have not really looked at filter setups, so I don't know. Could I eventually get the right balance to control algae with enough fish and floating plants. I don�t really mind cleaning this out every year or so with the right equipment and no deadline, but isn�t it better to not do a major overhaul like this if possible in order to build the right balance? Is that even possible without an elaborate system?

So sorry that this is so long-winded, but I don�t know how to cut this down more than I already have. Thank you all so, so much for taking the time to read and answer my many questions. It has helped tremendously!

Angela

If you have a lot of biological material falling into the pond (leaves, acorns, etc.) then your balance of fish/plants won't really matter. You don't have to go nuts with a filter system. Start simple and see if something simple works before you try the next thing. For instance: you've got too much water pressure in your fountain, so put in a splitter and run some of the water to a make-shift filter. You can do something really simple just to see if makes a difference before you spend money or time. I have a five gallon bucket with a hose inlet at the top, polyester fiber filling and some bioballs in the bottom, with a water outlet in the bottom that releases directly into the pond. It's just sitting on the edge of my pond, it's ugly, but I've been able to see that it DOES keep my pond clear AND I can see any of the big stuff that falls to the bottom. Now that I know that it works, it's time for a more permanent installation.

Here is a link for simple filter you might wan to try.
http://www.americanponders.com/forum/index.php?topic=5822.0

The pond is filled, fish are in, and everything looks great. No casualties so far. I have really hated the thought of losing any. I am not attached to any of them, hell, I've hardly even seen the guys over the last few months, but the thought of them surviving through the winter and me killing them through stupidity is too much. Now that I am able to see the fish on the bottom of the pond, I really do want a filter.

jraynis and mckean,
Thanks for the suggestions on the filters. I am now confidant that I can find something doable with my set up and it doesn't have to be perfect right away. I'll play with it and see what works. Now that I know I can clean the pond fairly easily with the right equipment, I don't feel intimidated by it anymore.

I may need a bigger pump to split off and filter the water, but I don't really know enough about all of this to say yet. I can hide the filter behind the higher brick wall and run a hose back in through the same hole that the electrical cord goes through. I am guessing (always a bad sign) that this can sit on the ground and the water can travel up as well.

I miscalculated. I have 540 gallons of water. The pump that I have now says that it will move 210 gallons per hour at 1 ft. lift. My fountain is about 3-4' tall. I think I am going to need a bigger pump to run this through a filter. Maybe not since I still don't want the flow to be too fast coming out of the urn. I'll play with it.

Now I can go back to the mundane things like vacuuming to get ready for the party this weekend. Thanks again! You guys have been great and have no idea how much added anxiety you have saved me.
Angela

Never mind correcting me on this one, I already realize this won't work:

"I am guessing (always a bad sign) that this can sit on the ground and the water can travel up as well."

The water is going to have to travel back into the pond from the filter by way of gravity and I don't suppose there is anyway to avoid that. I'll have to ponder some more because I don't want it visible and the hole that the electrical cord goes through is not a direct route, but an 'uphill' hole in the bricks, if you can imagine. I certainly wish I had known more about all of this when this was built. Things don't always turn out best when you are at the mercy of the 'experts.' The 'experts' told me I did not need a filter.

The advice here is pretty good and I think you will do a good job without a lot of problems. With your health problems you don't want to have to mess with the gunk too often. Regular maintenance is just like vacumming the rugs. If the water starts to have an odor before your company comes, put a bag of Activated Charcoal where the water flow is strongest. AC removes odors and discoloration in the water. Enjoy your party. Sandy