I find that Veil puts out a lot of new growth in the spring. Then again after it blooms. So I'd either trim it down now, or wait for the bloom and before it puts out new growth.

I had to cut back my veil after it and another rose were blown off an arbor/fence by heavy winds. I did not see new canes come up, but this was summer. I'm hoping that this spring, it will put out some new ones.

I think you can clean up a lot of what's there without taking out a cane. I find with ramblers and climbers, it's the secondary and terciary canes that get too long that make the bush look too out of control.

Maureen, I dropped the ball on this one and completely forgot to reply to your email the other day. Please forgive my slip up. I'll put my reply here.

My Veilchenblau is a baby, trapped in a pot, so I don't have experience with this exact rose in this situation. If you are not getting basal canes, this will make your Veilchenblau a bit easier to train, IMO. It appears to be a matter of removing canes that are out of bounds and don't fit the building, instead of removing old canes to make room for new canes.

Here's a mark up I did on your photo to show what I mean.

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These are the canes that I would consider removing. The one on the left is going off on its own, and so is the one on the right. The ones in the center are crowded and should be thinned a bit. My objective was to remove about 1/3 of what you have ... depending on your esthetic, you may want to remove more or less.

A woody base on an old rambler can be a thing of beauty. A rose friend of mine has an old Reve d'Or with a gorgeous trunk. You can aim for this as you train your Veilchenblau, only removing canes that don't contribute to your overall objective.

Your City of York is much more straight forward.

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It looks like you have WAY too many canes here. Take out a few, starting with the oldest, IMO, and take stock of what you have left after each cane is removed.

While I was pruning my Aviateur Bleriot, I had a number of really tough decisions to make. This rose hadn't been pruned in three years, and it was a haystack ... growing in all directions. I was determined to get him back on the fence, so I cut off every cane that was old, bloomed out, or was too stiff to make it onto the fence. What I had left was a motley pile of rose ... which I reassembled like a jigsaw puzzle into what I hope will be a nice show when spring comes.

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(This was a lot more drastic than I wanted. It seemed necessary, considering the mess I had when I started.)

Does this make sense?

Thanks to you both for your help. I always remove old canes from my shrubs, but was unsure about the ramblers that I wish to grow bigger. I worry that there will be no new canes from the ground, only growth from woody stumps. Maybe that is OK? We'll see what happens. I'll do some now and some after bloom. I've seen wonderful gardens where I don't think the ramblers have ever been pruned but I do not have the land necessary for 100-foot-wide plants.

I've already taken out half of City of York! I know it is the wrong rose for this space, but it does so wonderfully in the shade. I'll clean it out some more.

Connie - I forgive you (I know how busy you are). Your baby Veilchenblau might be from my plant? I know I had a few tip rooted plants that I gave away to ??? Thank you for the pictures - I know exactly what you mean and will get started as soon as we get a warmish day. I already screwed eyehooks into the studs of this shed and am stringing wire all around so I hope that will work. I have a young Awakening on the front corner.

I love Veilchenblau - a wonderful rose that makes a good hiding place:
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What wonderful responses with photos... especially the one that was marked for pruning! That all made so much sense. I also have a young Veil which I transplanted already because it was in too much shade.

The photo with the hiding child is priceless.