can you tell us a little bit more, what kind of orchid. Do you have a pic? I am not sure why you want to do this ? 2 or more is correct but if its a young plant better to keep it all together. Re-potting is done when the plant is in active growth. Not many are in that phase at this time of year, especially indoors

Clara

Hi, littlem. When you can, keeping the plant all together without dividing makes the whole thing stronger for blooms and withstanding disease, etc. The backbulbs contribute energy to the plant for a long time.

There comes a time when a piece might break off, or you just don't want the thing to be that big, then you would want to divide it. eg, Bigger pots, say above 10", are hard to find in azalea or bulb pan size so you might feel there's just too much medium altogether in the larger pots. At that point a lot of people would start dividing.

Some cymbid bulbs are so big that just a few would fill up an 8" pot.

Even then, the more pbs (even backbulbs) you can keep together, the better, for reasons in paragraph 1. Four pbs of many orchids would be a good size to work with.

It's just a judgment thing, for your own situation whether to divide your plant.

I believe what your book is trying to emphasize is *don't throw out old backbulbs", they can come to life and are a great gift for a friend, or duplicate of a loved plant.

Don't know if you saw richardol's pictures of his old backbulbs sprouting, but it was very convincing.

{{gwi:206580}}Leafless backbulbs are an important part of the plant. In general, leave them on.

That being said, there are good reasons for removing backbulbs besides being part of a division.

The backbulbs on the right are from a Anguloa virginalis I got in July. The plant had grown right up to the edge of the pot. Rather than up-pot it, I removed a group of two backbulbs and moved the plant away from the edge, simply filling in with sphagnum.

I kept them together because larger groups are stronger and more likely to start new growth, as these have. In this case, the backbulbs were not only leafless, they were rootless as well. I didn't pot them up, I lay them on a bed of sphagnum at the bottom of a clay pot and put it under the bench. About 6 weeks later, one of the eyes activated and new growth developed. (I have seen this take as much as a year to happen, so I keep backbulbs until they turn brown) I potted it up and it has continued to grow.

If the backbulbs had had roots, I would have gone straight to potting it up. Without roots, nothing can be absorbed and the medium stays wet.

Or you can simply toss the backbulbs out. I do that too if the plant is commonly available or I have several. However, I encourage you to try growing backbulbs for the experience. More than once I have received backbulbs as gifts that made a great addition to my collection.

I hope that helps you decide what to do with your plant. Do you have a picture?

hello, Clara, I am not planning to do any repotting right now. it is just that while I was reading the question came to mind and so I thought i would ask it for future reference. thanks for your quick response.

hello, mehitabel, thanks for your quick response also. I did see richardol's pictures which is why I am considering that when i do repot.

I am not thinking about dividing any of my plants; only that, is there a time to repot other than for the purpose of dividing? and would that be because of the number of leafless back-bulbs? I am referring to cymbidiums, oncidiums, lycastes and coelgynes which have already bloomed at least once. am i making any sense? thanks again.
sue

You are making sense. Repotting is done only when necessary. In other words it is not routine. Orchids like very tight shoes. They can even hang over the pot a little. With today's medium, an orchid needs to be repotted every 1-2 years indoors, sometimes longer. The less disruption the better. When the media is broken down. It is not routine to take off b BB's during that process. I would really advise against it especially with the Lycaste, coel. really all of them. If they have bloomed only once they are young.

Richard is the master of BB propagation but he does it for specific reasons, not as a standard part of re-potting. It's noy. I have a lycatse Deppei that has more than 20 BB's. I wouldn't think of repotting it or dividing it at this point. All the bulbs are healthy. The plant puts out 10's of dozens of flowers a year

Clara

hello, richardol, thanks for your quick response and photo. I was asking the question because it was triggered by what i was reading rather than by any specific action i want to take at this time. I like to do research and gather info for what if's. thanks again. I will try to do that for the experience when i get the opportunity.
sue

hello, Clara, thanks. i get the picture.
sue

:-)) They'll make bigger growth and healthier blooms for you. I know Richard has mentioned that he does BB propagation on valuable plants. That is also a reason to divide and propagate BB's. For now, let them grow like monsters. You'll be happy you did!

Clara

hello, Clara, I will take your advice: your lycaste deppei must be awesome looking when it is in full bloom. hope you will post a picture when that happens. thanks again.
sue

With Cattleyas, I try to get eight bulbs in one lead, then I cut off and pot the three oldest backbulbs. That way the new main plant still has a lead and four backbulbs, and the new division has three bulbs, which seems to be minimum for Cats.

hello, Gomb, thanks for your input. that is good for me to know since i do have a few catts.
sue

I also had a back bulb qn - and read richardol's answer with great interest. Especially re use of spahgnum rather than potting soil and grouping of 2 (vs 1).
Here's my plant history.
My Oncidium was blooming nearly 2x a year, growing new bulbs all over and generally a thriving plant. But it has faced a few mishaps - with the blooms and nectar, about 2 years ago the pot attracted a massive number of ants which I discovered only when the pot and root system was completely infested; I sprayed a fungicide, after soaking the roots in water to chase away the ants, repotted, and it readjusted, started growing new bulbs but never bloomed again. About 3 weeks ago I decided to divide and cut out the dormant or dead back bulbs. Not sure if I should have waited till atleast 1 bloom. I now have 2 good divisions (with about 5-6 good bulbs in each (including baby bulbs) and 3 back bulbs each in its own little pot.
Unfotunately I read richardol's answer only today - I did NOT use spagnum moss; I split the back bulbs into single bulbs - each probably has a little root attached to itself.
Will they survive without the spag or a 2nd bulb support? Or did I mess up?

Not to step on Richards toes - I would just leave well enough alone. We all break the rules and sometimes we get lucky!

Havining 'been there, done that' I would just put a layer of sphag on the top of whatever you planted them in (you don't mention). Do not let dry out completely, as they don't have back-up resources, until you see roots. This is a good time of the year to divide as plants are in 'growth mode.'

I'm assuming there are roots on the back-bulb. If not, just keep up humidity and hope to see signs of a new growth. Richard likes to withold water to force the plant to make roots. I agree, unless the bulb is shriveling. No roots, no sense to water. Just keep up the humidity.

Oh, if there were no roots on the bulb, you can repot again. You don't even need to pot until you see signs of roots. With an Oncid, you have to watch for dehydration.

Have fun...
Jane

They may do ok, orchids are survivors. Just don't water more than a bit so that they are not totally dry. Until roots form there is nothing to absorb water and rot sets in more easily.

Single backbulbs do fine and I do that often.

BTW, I have set up my backbulb website. No content yet, but has a really nice graphic header ;-) I still can't believe the name was available.

last fall I repotted a noid oncidium. there were 4 leafless back bulbs, 2 with leaves and a new growth. i took off the end most 2 leaf less back bulbs (which are attached to neach other) and put it in lava rock. i left in on north window sill. the lava rock was wet when i used it but after that i never watered it. i did put a little water in the saucer that the pot was in a couple of times over the winter. now on each of backbulbs there is a new growth. i don't see any new roots so i have not watered it yet. the new growths are about 1 inch tall right now. it was very exciting to see the little bits of green poking thru.
sue

Richard nice looking website. I can't wait for some of your entries to make it there. What a great reference point this will be.

littlem has had success already - congrats on new growth from an old backbulb.

Brooke

thanks, Brooke. it was pretty exciting. now the trick would be to keep them alive.
sue

Sue as soon as you see little roots put a little damp moss close to the roots to hold **a little** moisture close to them. This will encourage them to grow....;0)

Question for Richard, backbulbs without roots - new growth will begin and continue to grow without forming any roots. My thought is that as long as water is withheld, the plant has no need to form roots. It continues to use up the bulb reserves. I'm wondering if you have run into this and whether potting into sphag or some media will spur the growth of roots, especially during spring.

Jane

Assuming they are cattleyas, when I divide a plant, I keep a minimum of 3 leaved psuedo bulbs. I cut off the leafless back bulbs. If the plant is rare and has viable eyes (not rotted off) I just wire a label on them and place them under my bench and leave them alone. When they pop an eye and begin producing roots, I repot the back bulbs. The back bulbs get misted when I mist or water my main plants. I also now spray the back bulb's dormant eyes with Keiki Grow to simulate them. For cymbidium back bulbs, you can place them in a paper shopping bag and leave them there until they sprout new leaves. Or again, place them under a bench. We used to place cymbdium bac bulbs in a tray of clean most sand. Sometimes I will place a cattleya back division in a clay pot filled with New Zealand moss and put it with the rest of my collection. It will usually sprout a new growth and roots. The clay pot is key because plastic will hold too much water. Sometimes a little "neglect" toward a back bulb will cause it to grow. In the old days, we would cut the back division from the lead a few months in advance of repotting to stimulate the back piece to sprout an eye. It works. But now you can spray the Keiki Grow on the dormant eyes before you repot. See what happens.

You guys are so wonderful! Answers and ideas and suggestions!
Jane, richardol I'm glad there's hope!
thanks!

thanks. i too appreciate all the info.
sue

Jane,

I generally find that roots follow the sprouting of a new growth. They will go in search of water so it is often better that they remain on the dry side to start. One of the things I am thinking about better establishing is if there is any difference in how long to do that. If a plant grows in generally wet environment, maybe being wet is better. Next time I have a two backbulb situation I will try two different environments. Of course one case doesn't really mean anything, but the more information the better.

Richard, I don't know if you remember a backbulb of enc. Alata I tried to root last summer. Sat all summer in some tree fern and did nothing. I added a little sphag and started keeping it moist and a growth started in Nov. This growth is still small but fat and I noticed another growth beginning. Trouble is...no roots at all! I kept it bone dry all winter hoping for roots. Then I tried misting it, but still no roots. Its growing off the large bulb which is still large and firm as is the brown bulb.

Can't get roots on this little thing.

{{gwi:206581}}

This photo was taken in Nov 07. It's larger now with two leaves and starting another growth...frustrating.

Jane, I think I would repot soon. The dead pseudobulb is no danger but is definitely gone and should be removed. If you have active growth you are going to have roots and there may be some where you can't see them. I would use the same pot and move it all over to make room, expecting to have to repot again next year.

The pseudobulb that develops will probably be smaller than normal and if it tries to put up a spike I would cut it off.

Is the backbulb more wrinkled now that in the picture?

No, bulb looks the same. Both bulbs are hard like rocks. There are no roots as all. I know because I've knocked it out of the pot so many times. Obviously top-heavy, it rolls around like a ball without roots. Almost a year of this. It looks like another growth is starting too.

I'll post a shot of it when I get home. That's an old shot.

Jane

Jane, I have an Alata that I brought back from just a tiny pair of backbulbs. It now has an egg-sized bulb and new growths that may bloom, this year.

Give it time. It took mine a couple years to get here.

-Cj

But roots! I need some roots. I looked tonight and there's another growth which appears to be coming off the new growth. I can't really tell because it is so close to the growth. Maybe they are twins.

I guess I could try a rooting hormone, but at this point I am curious as to how long these old bulbs will support these growths without roots. Somethings got to give....

Jane

I think Cj hit it on the head - give it time. If it took her's two years, you have another year to go. Many orchids put out new growths a long time before roots appear.

It is growing and surviving from your obviously plump backbulb - think of it as a baby that has to be carried by mama and it will walk when it is strong enough to get along by himself.

Patience - Brooke

jane_ny

your plant is acting normal. You will not get new roots on the old bulbs on an Encyclia. They just do not grow that way.

The new growth will start putting out roots at the end of blooming season which is now. It will not put out the roots until the new pseudobulb is formed.

Encyclia just grow different from other orchids. Also they have very few roots in comparison to other orchids.

Your plant will do just fine. I have 50 that look like this (accidental freeze when greenhouse was damaged in a high wind accompanying a cold front 25 degrees and 40 MPH winds) They are growing exactly the same as yours and will flower next season.

Thanks, I'm not worried. Nice analogy Brooke. I never expected roots on the main bulbs, but was hoping something would start on the baby bulb. I posted about this because Richard was talking about not watering and leaving the main bulbs until roots appear.

I thought he might have a secret about getting those going. I do think the sphag stirred the eye and got the growth going. Could be wrong, but it didn't do a thing all summer sitting in dry tree fern.

This bulb was a challenge from an old-timer at my OS. He wanted it put in a zip-lock bag and I disagreed. I got the growths, but not the roots. I've got 3 weeks before the next meeting.

Jane