Choose a point from which border is to be viewed and play to that, as with a stage. To acheive best structure and greatest interest group evergreen shrubs at ends, deciduous between these and have a big area of perennials, bulbs and annuals front and center.

If there is not a fence, wall or hedge behind then evergreen shrubs will also have to be used to substitute for this, along one side. Plant in interlocking drifts of several of same kind, as is done with herbaceous plants. Exception to drifting of shrubs (evergreen or deciduous) would be bigleafed kinds like the magnolias, planting is too small for multiples of these--and you want to use larger numbers of small-leaved shrubs, some of medium-leaved and not very many of bigleaf types to get a nice, flowing look (bigleaf plants often look lumpy--notorious example: rhododendrons--and make the area look small if there are alot of them).

To read more about this kind of stuff (with some pictures) see Grant, GARDEN DESIGN ILLUSTRATED (Timber Press).

Thank you bboy. I was wondering if the magnolias would work. They are small ones... 8-10' by most estimates. Since the bed is so large (50'x10+') I was hoping they might and (sort of) trying to fill it in with less plants. Sounds like I need to suck it up and get smaller ones. There is a 4' tall chainlink fence behind that I would like to convert to split rail, but want to cover up as much as possible until then. I like the idea of the bulbs, perennials and annuals toward the center. I looked for Garden Design Illustrated on the net but couldn't find it. Is that the right name? If so, where could I find it? Thanks again.

IMHO, don't bother searching too hard for the book. It was written by somebody from the Pacific Northwest, and practically everything is based on broadleaf evergreens. There is a line about how they won't grow everywhere, and those places will have to figure out different ways to get the same effects, but since there are no clues about how to do this, it isn't a very useful line.

What kind of crape myrtle are you looking at? I do know there are some more cold-hardy ones out there now (eg., the Indian series like "Hopi", "Natchez", "Sioux", etc), but if you get slammed with some significant cold snap, your crape will die right back to the ground and would be small and multi-stemmed when it does come back.

Are you looking at having multi-season interest and bloom or is that just for foundation planting, where the emphasis will be on the perennials?

What Grant says is that conifers are used instead where a broadleaf evergreen can't be used. And the essays about multiple other aspects of planting design are generally applicable.

Thanks everyone. Jenny, the crape myrtle is 'White', hardy to zone 6. It is planted close to the house and has a trunk, and I have read that it should only have die back in the branches... we'll see... for $4 I couldn't pass it up especially after I got back from SC where they were in full bloom. The border is along a 50 foot stretch of chain link fence to the right of the entrance of my home. If you are interested, I gave TMI (too much info) over in the Landscape Design forum under 'Design or Disaster?' What better way to learn but by exposing my ignorance! Ha! I'm still floundering... not sure if the plants I have will work or if I should just plant them in the back yard and start over. I haven't seen anything with these combinations and I'm not very good at visualizing.

Conifers don't work in shade, like rhododendrons. To me, at least, it is a completely different look. There may be good points in that book, but it would take a lot more digging than I was willing to put into it to find them.

Evergreens in areas where broadleaf evergreens are difficult are nasty to deal with. They have to be put where they want to be instead of where you want to put them.

Yes: it's obvious you haven't read the book.

Yews and hemlocks are used in shade all the time, for starters. Then there's Microbiota...

As Grant says broadleaf evergreens are generally preferable because of their light reflective rather than light absorptive appearance, but some climates are too cold for these to be staple landscape items. Even so, Sabuco, BEST OF THE HARDIEST had alot of different kinds of broadleaf evergreens--both in this book and in his Illinois garden.

Well... $4 for a crape, why not?! LOL I checked out the other forum's thread by the way and have some comments.

My mother has a 50ft chain-link fence on one side of her backyard and they are tricky to "hide". She has a row of bridal wreath spirea (that grow to 6 - 7ft and will weep over), with some rose of sharons in between. They seem to do the job. On the other side, she has a new neighbor who recently removed the entire length of privet that had been there for over 40 years. There was always some kind of metal fence along that side on our side and some things planted along it (eg., rose of sharons and bamboo), but she is scrambling a bit herself, to add some more privacy things along that side now.

I think some of the comments on the other forum are good. It's not easy and in your case, based on you pics, you are almost starting from scratch, ie., you really don't have "old" established plants.

You might want to consider highlighting certain of your plants as "specimens" and use others, including some decidous shrubs, as a foundation. I looked up that Magnolia Jane. That's a pretty flower! (Uh oh for me....lol). There will be a time of year (spring) when magnolias are the center of attention and would be a show place... and then they fade away. But decidous magnolias are generally the type of plant that is considered a specimen and should probably be more front and center or even solitary and not in the rear. The same would apply to the crape myrtle (which if it is white, is probably "Natchez"), although in its situation, right next to the house to give it some protection, might be better. It is a mid-late summer bloomer.

As a totally different idea, you could always shift the target bed well away from the fence by moving it forward right to the sidewalk. Ie., using your diagram in the other thread, like this:

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Doing this might draw the eye to this front bed by the sidewalk, leaving the fence in the background by not highlighting it until you meander back there, and offering some privacy for that rear area, from the front yard's perspective. This would also give you some time to deal with the fenced-in area on its own merits. Consider down the road that you may one day remove that fence but might be stuck with established shrubs/trees that are still defining where the fence once was. This might make it all the more difficult to reconfigure and open up that part of the yard if you ever decided to do that, unless you opted to go with "garden rooms" with pre-defined areas of plantings with a similar theme. Perennials, including tall ones, are easier to move than a tree or shrub.

Back by the fence, you might consider something like an Annabelle hydrangea (H. arborscens 'Annabelle'), which when mature, can become quite thick and large and would be filled with blooms. You could plant a grouping of 3 in a corner area by the fence to eventually create a mass. I also had an idea where you could put some kind of arch/arbor right at your path to the beds. You could then plant vines like clematis to run up and over to make a cottagey entrance to your fenced-in area. If you replace the chainlink with post and rail, the arch would be a nice segue.

One thing that I don't think was mentioned in the other thread other than peripherally. after having looked at the pics of your house as compared to where I lived, is some descriptions of the typical overall "styles" of landscaping that might look best with the type and era of house. I grew up in an English Tudor-style house built using the local PA fieldstone, where my parents eventually established alot of foundation broadleaf evergreens in the front and along the side (azaleas, rhodies, boxwood, pieris, pyracantha, etc). There was already a large eastern red cedar tree planted between our house and a neighbor and that neighbor also had azaleas, rhodies, and an old mountain laurel. The entire block has nearly every house fronted with privet or some "wall" of shrub (eg., laurels, aucubas, hollies, etc) right up to the sidewalk. Ie., it was what one would consider very staid and conservative planting within what is a very old established neighborhood with alot of very mature street trees (sycamores). However fortunately, the style wasn't overly formal, as the residents allowed the natural habits of these shrubs to dominate and didn't lollypop them, etc.

And the question for you is whether you have asked yourself what "look" you eventually want to achieve - Ie., "staid and formal" (which can also include Japanese style, since you show ponds there) or more "free-flowing and open traditional" or "cottage style/prairie"? Ie., you indicated in the other thread that the aborvitae that you removed (or will remove) were like "sentinels" and in that setting, they are. In the more "formal" setting, they are often planted in a solid row as a privacy screen. Otherwise, they are solitary on either side of a house or it's doorway. In any case, it's going to be a labor of love and time to get things to maturity the way you envision but I think you need to decide whether you want "formal" or "informal" as a first step. And once you do that, there are various things you can do within each style using the plants that you mention.

This exercise is pretty cathartic to me in any case as I look at my own family's situations.

I have a Vanhoutte Spirea but it is only about a foot tall. I think it will be a while before it's hanging over the fence. Ha! I won't be able to move the bed forward for a few reasons. One, I already have an existing bed along the fence. It is only 3' wide and straight and I am trying to work with it. Two, I don't think I'll ever have a use for that area because it is a pretty steep bank down into the lower yard. Three, that front yard is really popular with the kids for picnics, rolling around and playing... unfortunately there is doggy doo in the back. I do like the idea of 'garden rooms', but will save those for another year. I checked out Annabelle and love it. I will be looking for it. I also love the arbor idea. I am definitely going for informal. Thank you so much for your ideas.

Keep in mind that at least for a couple years, everything can be moved around if it doesn't work out or you don't like it.
I like my perennials and annuals out front too becasue they bloom the longest. Many specimen shrubs only bloom for a short period and are better in the middle to background so they don't take all the room the rest of the year. I have several Janes and while they are beautiful, it's only for a few weeks in the spring. The leaf color and shape is boring the rest of the summer and there is no fall color.

I would seriously consider using shrub roses instead of barberries. They are so much prettier and just as easy to maintain. But, I recently replaced 9 barberries with knockout roses.