Two words: Chronic Rust and chronic dieback. Grown it twice, ended up dwindling down to a couple of twigs within a few years. I won't ever grow it again. I'm sure it does well somewhere, just not in my garden. There are many far better HPs available, ones with fewer problems and better scent. 'Baronne Prevost' might be something to consider, or 'Marchesa Bocella'. Both are far sturdier plants with better architecture and excellent scent.

I know where it does well! Way up in the Sierra Foothills.
I know this, because I've seen it growing clean there, with no care, in an old cemetery.
BUT everywhere else I've ever heard of it is as trospero describes.
Pity.

I DO love Baronne Prevost, which is one of the few HPs that is really good in my garden.

Jeri

Same results as trospero in a very different climate, though mine never needed support--the canes were always perfectly vertical, even with a heavy flower at the top.

'Baronne Prevost' is a much better choice.

I agree that there are better HP choices, but have to say that Paul Neyron in my garden does very well indeed. We are usually quite dry and warm throughout the growing season. Last spring was wet and cool, and the cemetery's Paul Neyron's rusted to an alarming degree. We defoliated it and cut it back, and it recovered cleanly. I didn't have nearly as much disease on mine at home; don't know why. In any case, I don't think I'd recommend it anywhere other than in a Mediterranean climate.

Its stems are stout enough. I grew it initially because I can't grow peonies, and the huge fat round buds reminded me of them, as did the flowers. I still like it but wish it were fragrant.
Anita

Wow, Anita! The lack of fragrance in rusty old Paul Neyron in your garden must be due to a combination of lack of humidity and personal olfactory sensation. Every one I've ever smelled was highly scented. Of course they were all rusted to the "n'th degree", but they smelled wonderful. Kim

Kim,
Mine were never very fragrant at all. Both plants came from Carolyn.

It's good in Florida, where HPs often fail to repeat reliably. For us, the stems are quite vertical, and the flowers (which can be enormous in cool weather) are held up nicely. Of course we don't have rust here, so that's not an issue. It does grow to be quite a large plant,and a friend once told me that it actually likes being cut back more severely than most roses, even in summer, and that that would make it rebloom better. I do believe it! We get a good bloom out of it every 6-8 weeks. It's very cyclical in that regard -- virtually every stem blooms at the same time.

I've also grown Baronne Prevost, and agree that it's a great rose as well. But in comparing the two -- we don't get better bloom on BP, and it is so outrageously thorny, I think I prefer PN. Also, BP is very susceptible to what we call anthracnose -- looks like black spot, but lacking the yellow halo around the spot.

See? Every rose is good SOMEwhere!

Jeri

So, Malcolm, maybe I'll be switching BP for PN. I knew you grew Paul Neyron so have been very tempted by him. He must like heat.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

I just got a Paul Neyron here in England from DA, will see how it does.

Re. Baronne Prevost - I'm surprised to see how many people here now laud her. A few years ago she was nicknamed Barren Prevost on this forum: a once-bloomer, effectively, and for some, barely that.

I have to agree with Malcolm on her. She never rebloomed for me in North Carolina and was very susceptible to blackspot (perhaps also anthracnose but definitely BS) which tended to defoliate her, even with fairly regular spraying. And she threw out rather lanky canes after finishing her blooming season in late spring/early summer. That's why I never got her again. But the blooms were very beautiful and well scented.

Andrea

Perhaps I've miscommunicated. Baronne Prevost did rebloom for us pretty well. Just not better than Paul Neyron. I did like it. I just dreaded pruning the thing -- it extracted a lot of blood.

Emma, you got an awful lot of California answers for your Virginia question about Paul Neyron! (What the California folks have said here will be really valuable for anyone else coming along with their kind of climate and problems.) Here in Virginia, I have never seen rust.

I grow Paul Neyron, and dozens of other HPs. For a while, I was actively collecting most every one I could get my hands on. For me, PN is 7 feet tall, straight upright, with dinnerplate size, fragrant flowers in a large flush in the spring, and a smaller smattering of smaller flowers come in the fall. All of my HPs in our hot, humid climate are susceptible to blackspot, and I spray them with fungicide so they keep their leaves. My PN lived in a BIG pot for three years, so you can grow him that way ... he's much happier in the ground, tho. I like Paul Neyron, but I love Mrs. John Laing, Druschki Rubra, and Mme. Desire Giraud more.

You should make plans to come up here (I'm about an hour and a half north of you) to see the roses when spring flush begins. You can also plan to visit the Virginia Peninsula Rose Society meeting on April 3 ... I'll be there as their speaker that day.

Connie

Baronne Prevost: "Meant to be a California girl," or "West Coast girl," oh please. But it's good to know that she repeats and behaves well somewhere.

What are the British books that dissed BP?

I see that David Austin writes in The Rose: "Baronne Prevost has magnificent, perfectly formed blooms and strong upright growth." (p. 69 with a whole page photograph).

Botanica's Roses, 2nd ed 1999, which is largely a British (Peter Harkness, Peter Beales, David Austin, John Mattock et al) plus Commonwealth production, notes on Baronne Prevost: "Extremely popular for many years, this early Hybrid Perpetual retains the shape of the Old Rose form. Large, globular buds open to full, fat, quartered, pink blooms that fade with age and make most attractive cut flowers. The stiff, stout canes are covered with attractive foliage and short red prickles. This tough, compact shrub blooms in summer with an occasional autumn repeat and is best placed at the back of the border. It likes sun and rich soil. ..." (p. 105)

Now, of perhaps more interest to the OP, David Austin on Paul Neyron (from The Rose, p. 72):
"In the past this rose was regarded as having the largest flowers of all roses, and I suspect that this may not be far from true today. It is in every way a very large shrub, with large leaves and strong upright growth. Unfortunately with size comes clumsiness, as is so often the case, but of the flowers are cut and mixed with an arrangement of other flowers they can be very effective. Their color is a deep rose-pink flushed with lilac; they're cupped in shape and have a light fragrance. ..."

Botanica's entry does not add anything (other than a bit of PN's history) to this.

My *North Carolinian* experience with HPs in general, notwithstanding a few very notable exceptions, is that they are not good rebloomers and throw out very long canes after their first (which is often pretty much the last) flush. I now grow more HPs here in England mostly because they rebloom and behave a bit better here. However, mind you that, despite their family name, Hybrid Perpetuals are generally known not to be all that perpetual. And regarding location, location, location, Virginia is in most respects probably closer to North Carolina than to England or California, and its, uhm, girls.

Andrea

I see that David Austin writes in The Rose: "Baronne Prevost has magnificent, perfectly formed blooms and strong upright growth."

Well, honestly, has Mr. Austin ever said anything unflattering about any rose?? ;-)

The books I read early-on stigmatized her as "coarse."

She IS very prickly, but is not "coarse" to me. One woman's ceiling is another's floor.

Jeri

Graham Thomas praised it, too:

"...It has grown well and is a free-flowerer and, being so very early in the Hybrid Perpetual tradition, retains the Old Rose form: the flat, wide bloom, the quartering and button eye which are so appealing. The blooms are often 4 inches across, of rich pink suffused lilac, produced throughout summer and autumn. I see no reason why it should not go on for another hundred years...."

PN is one of my favourite roses !

it does brilliantly here in the blue mountains Australia !

fabulous light green vigorous leaves and growth and the most beautiful large blooms with perfume

no complaints at all !

I love love love love it !

PN is one of my favourite roses ever !

it does brilliantly in the Blue Mountains here in Australia !

lush vigorous light green growth and leaves and the most beautiful shaped and fragrant blooms !