With a Tea, especially a "red" Tea, I wouldn't be surprised for this to happen (but I'd certainly be on pins and needles waiting to see the first blossom with the "right" color). I've found, with the darker Teas especially, that, the more established the bush is, the more the "darkness" of the color is supported; and all the more so in Winter. I have a newly-in-the-ground 'Mrs. B.R. Cant' which is blooming a big fat blush-colored blossom right now; but the distinctive scent is right, as is the vigor of the plant, so I'm sure it's 'Mrs. B.R. Cant'. My problem with 'Monsieur Tillier', which I grew for several years, was that the blossoms would always scorch in the sun, which was very painful for me to observe. I had sited it where it received not only the full blast of the sun's rays, but also reflected sun and heat from a structure wall. Live and learn!

In my experience Teas in general have paler colored blossoms in cool weather, though I can't speak for this rose in particular. 'Mme. Antoine Mari' changes from her summer whipped-cream-edged-with-cool-pink to a yellowish white in late fall; and I've seen 'General Gallieni' transform from brick-and-flame to pale-peach-and-cream. However, if the blooms are supposed to have orange tints, I would expect to see some reflection of that even in pale winter flowers.

I've gotten pale roses and brick-red roses from MT at the same time, on the same branch even. The most variable colored rose here bar none.

I've never seen pale pink blooms on our 'Mons. Tillier,' at any season (tho we are coastal). It has always had coppery tones.

Jeri

I'd need to see a picture before I could say one way or another. The texture of Mons. Tillier is as telling as the color. It can vary greatly - but the pink it has would be always more to the yellow spectrum for me than the blue. It's never a "cold" pink here.

I did not see it either as a cool pink or a warm pink, but rather a mid-pink balanced between the two. However, it was a bit shopworn from shipping which can muddy color subtleties. I'll wait for another bloom to appear before making any judgment. Until proven otherwise, I will assume it is the correct rose. I'm looking forward to seeing those wonderful brick pink tones show up.

Thanks, everyone!

Rosefolly

I recant. I just found an image of it, made in January a couple of years back, at a light salmon pink. I think it was so unusual that I photographed it. (And then forgot it.)

I agree with Jerome about the color tone. It IS a warm salmon pink. But I've seen this -- ONCE.

OTOH, this plant may have come right out of a greenhouse, which would surely make a difference.

Jeri

I wonder if the shipping process can affect the color of the rose. I bought Vincent Godsiff from a reputable nursery as well. The rose had two buds that opened to the most beautiful pale pink color. Anyone who grows Vincent Godsiff knows that the flower color is absolutely not pale pink. I was more than a little unhappy, and when I was about to call the nursery and inform them of their obvious mistake, the rose bloomed again, and this time it was the correct color. I also had this happen with another rose that was supposed to be pink, and it bloomed white the first time. I am sure that nurseries can and do ship the wrong rose upon occasion, but I think I would wait until it blooms again to make your final judgement.

Vincent Godsiff correct color
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Vincent Godsiff from the nursery
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I received one from a very reputable online nursery too and it came with a bloom thats pale pink too. I hope it turns out to be the right one. Judy

I saw a mature Mons. Tillier - my first time of ever seeing this rose - and I fell hard for it. The color blended from a middle pink on the outer petals to the gorgeous brick tones in the center. This was in the Fall - the next Spring, when I went to see it, I was disappointed to see mid-pink roses with not a hint of brick! I think it simply has that variation from one season to the other, but I don't really know...

Here in Lakeland, we get mostly just pink, with seldom the brick tones. I might wonder if we had the right rose, but cuttings taken from very "bricky" plants in other parts of the country convert to our form immediately on their first growth flush here, so it's a climate thing. Still a very pretty rose for us and one of my favorites, but not typical of the usual description and photos one sees.

When I received my first Le Vesuve from Vintage I swore to them that I had received the wrong rose, only to find out later that it was just a very atypical bloom. This seems to be extremely common and has happened to me with different roses but now I know to ignore it and wait for further blooms.

My Monsieur Tillier always had the beautiful color gradations, right from the beginning, but I reluctantly gave it up since the blooms frizzled in record time, even in the spring when it wasn't that hot. A pity, it was a beautiful rose and a lovely shrub.

Ingrid

Rose color can be very variable. It sounds as though this particular rose is at the extreme end of the spectrum. I am sure I will enjoy it in all its variety. And I am planting it where it will get late afternoon shade, so the frying issue should not be a problem for me.

Thanks...

Rosefolly

My MT is a flat medium salmon pink. I need to look again when it blooms or at a picture, but I don't think it is coppery, but sort of brick/pink.

It is a vigorous rose, but the blooms simply do not glow like some of the others. I just looked at the picture in my catalogue, but my rose has the same color all over. The catalogue show a different color hue in the center.

Mine also takes the heat and the cold well.

Sammy

Sometimes I think we'd be better off taking the buds off for longer, since many times early blooms are just not typical. In our hot, humid coastal climate here (zone 8) Monsieur Tillier displays all the subtle variations he's known for. If I could only have 1 tea, it would be this one. Wow!
First time I ever saw Mr. Tillier was at Antique Rose Emporium north of Houston and the color was so distinctive that I spotted it from a distance of many yards.
Sure hope you got the real thing---!
(PS I don't think "brick" about this rose, more deep rose with salmon undertones)

Now that I think about it, I had a "first-blossom-quite-different" experience with my Mlle. Jeanne Philippe. Its first bloom was exquisite: just barely double (almost single, really), a cream washed with faint yellow and another wash of faint pink shading to rose. Heartbreakingly beautiful! I never saw one like that again. I like this rose, nevertheless, and it really blooms almost continually from spring to late fall. BTW, the blooms in spring are a light yellow, no apricot to it at all, just a faint hint of rose at the edges sometimes - then, as we get more into summer, it's a gold/apricot. Very nice. I got this in Vintage Gardens "Unloved Roses" sale 3 or 4 years ago, and I have never regretted it.

Laura

I have heard this variety grows in hot and humid conditions. Is this correct please?

I have had Ms Tillier in various gardens for over 35 years, and have never seen a pink bloom. I'm amazed that that can happen. It is one of the most stable coloured Teas I have ever had. Though I do note slight colour changes due I think to the amount of water the plant gets. It had more coppery tones in a position that got a lot more run off.

HU, I am in Sydney, close to the coast. It is certainly humid here for several months over late Spring, Summer and early Autumn, and fairly warm, and it is a Tea that does well here, being very vigorous, though I do find it does much better with plenty of water.

I agree, I've never understood the 'brick' description of the colour. And it starts flowering a little later in Spring than my other Teas, and continues flowering longer into Winter.

Fantastic, thank-you :)

I have grown M. Tillier in several gardens and in different climates and soils. It is one of the most variable roses I have ever grown - but always lovely. For me it is deeper in colour when it is cool and paler as the season heats up. The buds are beautifully shaped - high-centred and elegant, it opens to a flattish, muddled rose with many petals of differing length. It handles heat, cold, humidity and drought and is the most generous and long- flowering rose. My current plant is on the eastern side of a large tulip tree (Liriodendron) So it receives a lot of shade once the tree is in leaf but flowers prolifically from mid-spring and well into winter. My rise grows very tall and each winter I prune it very hard to bring it back down to a reasonable height - I feel it would like to be a rose tree. A really tough, generous plant, reliable and a delight every year as it starts blooming with its distinctive glowing coppery pink flowers with shades of terracotta, salmon and gold.

PS I was wondering about some contributors (including the writer who started this thread) who wrote about having unusually pale blooms initially - were these blooms that were developing on the plant while it was in transit. Being deprived of sunlight for a week as it was shipped in a dark cardboard container would definitely result in pale blooms (think of blanched asparagus or forced rhubarb). Just an idea!