I'd be pretty careful with that stuff. As you mentioned, your're salinity is already being contributed to by the manure and fertilizers. This is in addition to the salinity that was already in the soil. Hopefully, it was low to start with due to the sandy texture. But even with sandy soil, if the area did not receive regular irrigation in the past it can still be salty. This is something that happens rather readily in a place where evaporation exceeds precipitation. (and I really don't know if that's the case where you are or not). Anyway, you're adding salts with the manure and the fertilizer. Adding more salt with the alpha might not be a good idea. I say "might" because that depends entirely upon how much salt is in your soil, how salty the manure is, and how salty the alfalfa is, how much manure you've used, and how much alfalfa you plan to use. Considering that you should already have good amounts of organic with the manure and compost you've added, I would not use the alfalfa because there is a good chance that the salts you add would do more harm than the additional organic matter would help. If you're dying to use the stuff, you could compost it and provide copious leaching to flush out the salts over time prior to adding it to the beds. You just have to be careful not to water it so much that it goes anaerobic. Even then, it's pretty tough to guarantee that you won't be bumping your salinity past a low and safe level.

The salt should not be a problem. We have been in a drought for the last four years and I have used Alfalfa in my garden without fail. There may be reasons related to your region that negate the use, but I cannot think of any reason to not use Alfalfa meal or tea.

There are few things in this world that don't have salt in them (including us); your compost should be able to handle that salt. I would search further if you are still concerned, but IMO I would use the alfalfa without hesitation...

Blutranes

Thanks keinley and bluetranes for your very helpful, but totally conflicting advice! now I am even more confused...Anyone else want to join the debate?

Is alfalfa better than manure? Is manure better than alfalfa? Is it best to use both???
Help!

I am not trying to start a debate at all; just saying what my experience is with alfalfa. I use both alfalfa and manure and find they are a great combination, IMO.

Please remember that what may be acceptable in one part of the country may not be for another part of the country. You are wise to get as many points of view as are offered, for the desire on this board is to help members , not confuse them. Since I am not familiar with your growing conditions I can only offer what is true for myself. I do hope this helps in some way...

Blutranes

Joanna, I don't see the two above post as totally in conflict with each other. Some folks are just more cautious than others and I took what Keinley posted as trying to be helpful but speculating about the amount of salt involved. They did qualify it to some extent by saying it might depend on the area that you are in, not all being the same.

I would have to weigh in on the side of Bluetranes, having used manure and alfalfa both with excellent result and zero problems.

It is your call, each person has to form their opinions based upon what they observe and think. If you have reason to think that there might be some problem with salt (which I doubt) then you might want to have a soil test done or at least talk to someone with your local extension agent's office about the possibility of any problems in your particular area. I think that would probably reassure you and probably put your mind at ease on the subject.
That is musdt my .02 worth.
Bill P.

The issue, for me anyway, would be how much salt did they add? Did they add enough of the stuff as a replacement to a salt lick? Or did they add just a bit to make it more palatable. If they put in a lot, then I'd would watch the total accumulation / application over the years. If its just a bit, then I wouldn't worry.

I think you probably need to be more cautious than some others, since you live in an arid area. In arid areas, salinity tends to build up over time even without adding salt. When most of the water comes from irrigation, salt tends to build up over time.

I should point out that when I say it builds up over time, I mean over a period of many years, so you may not see an appreciable effect for quite some time. When blutranes says he's had a 4 year drought, I suspect that his annual rainfall during those 4 years would have signaled an end to a drought in my area. I'm not saying that his conditions shouldn't be considered drought, but that what is considered dry to some might not be so dry to others. I would also point out that 4 years isn't really long enough to start worrying about a salt buildup, unless you're doing a lot of things really wrong.

Bill P and David are both in more arid areas, so their conditions are probably closer to yours.

I tend to err on the side of caution on this, and I may take it too far, but if I were you, I'd stick with alfalfa that didn't have any added salt.

I agree with bpgreen, I'd try to find alfalfa meal without salt. Salt can kill plants.

Deanna

Thanks everyone for your advise and input - each and every opinion is greatly appreciated. I am fairly new to gardening and have never grown rose in my life but have been inspired by Gardenweb to give it a go. I am just trying to maximise chances of success...To that extent, I am too much of a novice to understand the subtleties of long-term salt build up etc. I realise that 100% alfalfa is the way to go, just have been unable to find it. I was really asking if the salted variety would be better than none. I will check asalt levels next week when I see the product. Would an occaisional long soak of the soil -eg 8 hours once a month, help flush out excess salts or is this pointless?
Thanks again.

Well I guess I'll add my two cents worth of advise and suggestions too...

I use various cattle, horse, and fish feed products from farm supply stores all the time in my various compost methods, and aerated compost tea recipes. All beneficial soil organisms love various proteins, carbohydrates, sugars, and starches! These guys turn these foods into soluble nutrients for plants at the correct rates and amounts that the plants need during the growing season(s).

What I do is check the NaCl salt percentage on the feed bag. Anything less than or equal to 1.00 % NaCl is no big deal to me! I put more NaCl salt than that on my soils from my own sweat during the hot humid summer months here in my zone! (LOL)

Also keep in mind that there are a various number of good mineral salts, (beside NaCl salt), that are beneficial minerals for both growing healthy crops and beneficial soil organisms.

If you use plenty of mature compost in your soil, and on top of your soil as an extra mulch, you'll be fine. Compost buffers local soil pH near growing crop roots. It also buffers soluble and insoluble nutrients near growing crop roots. The buffering power of mature compost is mainly because of the existence of humates and aerobic beneficial microbes in it.

Another way to get more "buffering" aerobic beneficial microbes in your topsoil, to balance out NaCl salts in it, is using various aerated compost tea recipes as diluted soil drenches. The best types of ACT recipes for this purpose are the ones loaded with extra molassees products and maybe a touch of Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate).

The extra existence of Mg, Ca, S, in the presence of humates and aerobic beneficial soil microbes, will greatly help balance and buffer Na, Cl, and other nutrients in the soil near the rhizosphere of growing healthy sustainable crops.

Remember the main rule for all composting methods is balance, moderation, and of course common sense! (LOL)

Be creative and have fun doing it!

Happy Gardening!

Am I too cautious? Possibly, but I'll just throw out my thoughts and you can take it for what it's worth (with a grain of salt, if you will).
We don't know the salinity of the native soil (which can be significant in an arid region)
We don't know the salinity of the irrigation water (which can be significant)
We don't know the salinity of the manure (which can be very significant, especially if the animal had access to a salt lick)
We don't know the salinity of the compost. (which can vary depending on the source material and the way it was treated)
We do know that salts will be added with the fertilizers.

By using salt-fortified alfalfa, you would be putting your chips on the table to say, "I'm going to bet that with all of those sources combined, my salinity is still low enough that I feel comfortable adding table salt to my soil for the sake of increasing organic matter in an area where it is probably already high enough for roses due to the manure and compost."
You can do that if you like. If you do, will everything be okay? Maybe. (The dose makes the poison, afer all) Personally, I wouldn't make that bet.

Speaking of alfalfa and other feed grains, does anyone know where to purchase these items on Long Island?

darth_weeder,
Agway carries some of what you are looking for, also try a feed store. I'm in Mastic, and there is a local nursery/feed store that carries alfalfa cubes.
Alberta

"for the sake of increasing organic matter in an area where it is probably already high enough for roses due to the manure and compost."

I agree with keinley, if the roses are getting compost and manure then the salty alfalfa isnt necessary. Is there any reason why you must use alfalfa on the roses? because the compost and manure is plenty

I use alfalfa cubes (without salt) and make a tea with it - I also add some fish emulsion and epsom salts to the alfalfa brew. Last year was the first year I tried it and the first flush in June was the strongest I have ever seen for my roses. I applied more tea mid summer and again in the fall and I can say that I definately saw a difference in growth habit and bloom production.

I wouldn't use the alfalfa with salt.

We added alfalfa (no added NaCl) as well as epsom salts to my neighbor's 150 roses this year. Alfalfa contains a growth stimulant, and epsom salts is supposed to help roses form new canes. Many of the roses are old, so we'll see if the alfalfa revives them.

Here in suburbia, one of the local pet stores that caters to horses sells 50 pound bags of alfalfa pellets.

By the way, you can also ask for opinions on the organic rose growing forum.