OK, this is quite subjective. I saw your post in the design forum.

First off, is the plant between your arbos caryopteris? It gets 5' wide and 4' tall, if so. Regardless, the arbos, even if they are called "dwarf" will eventually munch it or any other plant.

What I saw in the other forum looks way too busy to me (like I said, subjectively). There also would be a watering conflict between the abelia and nandina (regular moisture loving) and the dry soil loving 'Blue Star?' juniper. Also, if the bed is 14' wide and 4' deep all the plants will outgrow it in nothing flat with decent soil (probably 3-4 yrs. max).

I would suggest that a simpler planting would be more effective. For example, using dwarf nandina wrapped around the arbos en masse and with a controllable lower ground cover between the nandina and walk, like liriope muscari 'Majestic' then calling it good.

For the intense conifer-heavy planting you say you like you need more area and space between the specimens so that each can show off as it reaches TRUE size. Yes, you can plant them tightly and prune the hades out of them if you know what you are doing, but a specimen garden adjacent to a public sidewalk is something I wouldn't do (subjectively).

The problem with landscape design programs like yours is that they show each plant at its best - when it is blooming, in fall color, with winter effect or with 10 years of growth, and all with equal moisture compatibility, etc. All those things don't happen in the same way or at the same time so it give a false impression of how things look or perform. When someone comes up with a seasonally changing, moisture considering and annually growing landscape design program, this "pencil and vellum - artfully sketched perspective of the future look" old-timer will buy it.

hortster

horster,

Thank you for taking the time to help. I obviously don't know a lot about shrubs. I've learned a lot since my first post Last night I came to the conclusion that I'll only be able to fit one row of shrubs around the arborvitaes and possibly some ground cover or other small plants/shrubs.

I found this thread on another forum that has some arrangements like I'm going for. If you wouldn't mind looking at it I'd appreciate it. http://www.infojardin.com/foro/showthread.php?p=2932300 it's in spanish.

I'm trying to avoid using all the same plants for that row because I don't like that look. I want some variety in texture.

I've ruled out Nandina because of toxicity to pets. I have some plants that are toxic and haven't had any issues but I'd like to avoid them.

The kaleidescope abelia is a plant I like and has similar texture to the nandina and changes to a nice red color in the fall.

The bush between the arborvitae is going to be a smaller blueberry bush. It's not the ideal plant for the layout but it will eventually fill the space nicely and it's the best sunny spot I have for it. I really want fresh blueberries. I might get rid of it in the future if it doesn't work in that spot and I can find a better place.

There's a new property not too far from me that has a nice mix of shrubs. None of them repeat except for some in the back. I need to take a picture because I really liked it.

Right now I think I'm going to go with 4 different shrubs in the front, Purple Pixe, Kaliedescope Abelia, Green Mound Juniper and maybe a Yellow Winter creeper.

The software I'm using is more to layout the shape of the bed. I'm coping and pasting plants from online stores in photoshop to see what it would look like.

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I might skip the ground cover for now until I learn more about it. It seems to grow very slow. I'm having enough trouble with the shrubs.

Hopefully I can get some help at my garden center.

What would help is if you could suggest some plants that don't lose foliage in winter that you think would work well color and texture wise with the arborvitae and don't grow to about 2' tall when mature.

I don't know a lot of shrubs.

I don't speak Spanish, but tried to get it translated. This is what I got:

"there is something it is for indicating and it is that repetition of species, cypresses, formios of grays etc. that it gives an enormous unit him and it presents/displays a barren form of design, is not a potpourri of species but of a ordered design and thought well.
how important it is the synthesis in the gardens. That is part of the learning that becomes in the design."

You seem to want "one of these, one of those, one of that."

??? My way of seeing this, although you would prefer textural differences and a mixture, is to use the Kaleidoscope abelia vs. the nandina and still go with the liriope.

The abelia do NOT have to be in a row; as a matter of fact I would alter the arrangement to be very informal, as if "the seeds blew in" and yet have a solid mass around the arborvitae faced with the liriope.

Like I said, that is my approach, although I sense you are looking for something else. "Busy" to me is distracting instead of flowing, smooth and natural. Just my eye. Good luck with the planting!

hortster

hortster,

Is there any way you can lay out what you had in mind over the first image I posted so I can get a better sense of the arrangement you're talking about? I'm having a hard time visualizing it.

Gotta hit the sack as I have a busy day Thursday, but will sketch what I am thinking and scan it for you on the post tomorrow. Will be in plan view.
hortster

I finally found an image that is almost exactly like what I want in terms of shapes and textures.

Imagine the front right quarter was plucked out and planted in front of my trees.

That thin leafed plant under the red bush, the flowing yellow blooms further down and to the left. Shrubs that vary in height and don't repeat.

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Found via http://www.renegadegardener.com/

Here's another photo I found that has that same feel with varying heights, textures and colors

I feel like if I plucked out part of that section in the middle between the seating and walkway and planted it in front of my trees I'd be happy.

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From http://www.nrouges.tk/my-garden-in-may-kyle-of-lochalsh-scottish-highlands.html

I guess I have to use a mix of evergreens and perennials?

Both of those examples have a lot fewer specimens in a larger space.

First, do you know the cultivar name of the arborvitaes. You need that to understand how big they are going to get, and how fast.

Once you have ideas about that, take a piece of graph paper, and draw the bed on it. It needs to be drawn to scale. Common scales are 1/2"=1', or 1/4"=1', depending on how big the bed is. It should easily fit on a normal size piece of paper. then draw the arborvitae circles also to scale. Then see how much space is left. I think you'll find you have room for about two shrubs, and one or two perennials. That's it.

The first image is to scale but some of the measurements might be off by a few inches.

I'm not sure of the varieties of the arborvitae. There's maybe a 5% chance I'm wrong about them even being arborvitae. The needles look like arborvitae. They were planted over 10 years ago and have only reached about 5' tall. They are roughly 3.5' in diameter. The shapes closely match those in the second image I posted. They also have white seed pods with a bluish hue that look like these if it helps determine the variety.

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I posted those last 2 photos as examples of variation in color/texture/size/shape that I'm interested. If you cut any 4'x14' section out of those gardens you'd get a nice naturally flowing arrangement that would fit in the space I'm looking to fill.

Here's the updated idea I'm working with.

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free image hosting

A larger loropetalium than the purple pixie (Purple Diamond pruned short?) on the right, planted with an iris underneath it because I really like how that looked in that one photo.

Green Mound Juniper In the center. Will be set back a little from the other shrubs.

Kaleidoscope Abelia on the left.

Liriope in front of the juniper between the Abelia and Loropetalium.

In the back I need to find a couple compact shrubs/plants to fill in some space but I can worry about those later.

On the left I need to find a low growing spreading, flowering thing like in that photo to fill the space. I like it much more than something like a juniper ground cover.

Any ideas what I can use on the left that fits the bill?

In the first image, you have three green blobs in the middle. The two outside ones are drawn to be about 2 ft in diameter. The middle one is about 3 ft in diameter. Now you are saying that in reality in you have two arborvitae that are both more than 3 ft wide, and should probably be drawn as 4 ft circles. Then you lose a foot from in front of them, and there isn't much room at all for a plant between them.

It takes space to do layers. And this really isn't a very big bed.

Oops... Your right. I don't usually use that view. Thought it would be better to post because it was textured and the areas were easily identifiable. Here's the regular 2d view that has the plants at the appropriate sizes. I colored them in to differentiate them.

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There is 4' from the front of the arborvitae to the sidewalk. The placement was done using the 2d view that shows the plants at actual size so the above image should be accurate.

It's still too small a space for the kind of layering you envision.

That being said, you can always investigate the miniature (not small, not dwarf, but miniatures) conifers. They tend to be expensive, but won't eat up your real estate.

Just an idea to see what can be done in a small space, I'm attaching a link to the Cottage Garden forum with a thread and pictures from a poster called "tsugajunkie". There's a pretty good mix of boulders, perennial ground covers, blooming perennials, and relatively small specimen trees and shrubs with different colors, shapes and textures.

Here is a link that might be useful: tsugajunkie's gardens

Here's where I am in my current thinking. If anyone can help me improve on it or select alternate plants, especially where I'm not sure what to put I would appreciate it.

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A - Existing Arborvitae ~5' tall about ~3.5' wide
B - Blueberry Bush (Liberty) A little odd but best spot for it. Might move next year if doesn't work.
C - Loropetalium (Purple Diamond?) A little big but hoping I can keep it pruned to about 3' height. Looking for a burgundy evergreen that fits this spot and isn't Japanese Barberry.
D - Grey Owl Juniper (made mistake above with Green Mound). A dwarf golden japanese yew might be more appropriately shaped and sized for the space. I want it to be shorter than the Abelia and Loropetalium.
E - Kaleidoscope Abelia. Will likely go a little more to the left if I find the right shrub for D.
F - Siberian Iris (Butter and Sugar?) Planted so it looks like it's shooting out from the base of the Loropetalium
G - Some Giant Lilyturf to fill in that space
H - Not sure what to put here. Some low growing flowering groundcover. Maybe forgetmenots or something like that?
I - A small yellow shrub. Not sure yet. a compact wintercreeper maybe but everywhere I look I see euonymus so want to find something else.
J - Regular sized liriope.
K - Existing hydrangea with blue blooms
L - Existing plants. From top down there's a hosta, some wide bladed spiky thing, and then about 4 yellow flowers. About 12" high. Might be corepsis or something like that.

Found this picture of a Dwarf Japanese Yew and really like the spikey foliage that's on the right of it. Can anyone tell me what that is?

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From: Oakland Nursuries

Have you considered a lavender? The size matches a lot of your requirements.

for groundcover, germander or sweet woodruff?

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I put most of the plants in already. The advice on these forums was very helpful.

freki, I considered putting in lavender but was having a hard time finding ones I liked. On another thread the suggestion was to put weigela in place of the loropetalum because they grow better in my area. I went with Fine Wine weigelas which were about the right size and the right feel. They'll drop their leaves for a few months a year but I think during the season they'll look nice.

Instead of the kaleidoscope abelia I chose a bronze aniversary because I think the colors would work better. It was also cheaper.

I got a few other small plants to put around the area. My main goal for now was to just get some of the major elements in so I don't have a big empty bed of mulch. Next year I'll tweak it a little more.