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cat22woman

Soil help, please!

16 years ago

Hi all, I have mainly been lurking for the past few years as I lived in an apartment. But now I have my own house and am planting my own garden and I could really use some soil help. I will be planting mainly tomatoes, with some cucumbers and a few other veggies.

I knew my soil was in pretty bad shape, but here are the (very minimal) soil test results:

pH: 5.6

N: Surface: 2

P Index: 10

K Index: 93

and that is what my $10 got me. The recommendation was to apply 25 lbs of 13-13-13 per 1000 square feet or manure.

I have bought lime and manure and will add to what I have composted (not near enough), but I need some expert advice. I would prefer using organic. I got the test done in early December hoping to be amending my soil all winter, but just got the results back last week. Any advice, recommendations, or help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Comments (7)

  • 16 years ago

    I see that you live in Oklahoma. I am suspicious of the pH results you give. I wasn't aware that Oklahoma had acidic soil. Some soils are acidic because of high sulfur content, usually due to a nearby volcanic eruption. The eruption could have been 10,000 years ago, it need not be recent. However, if there is limestone in your area, then the local soils are more likely to be somewhat alkaline, maybe pH around 7.5. Are there any plants growing in your yard? It helps to know if grasses, flowers, and weeds can survive in the soil-that's the ultimate soil test.

  • 16 years ago

    Oklahoma State University reports that the soil of Oklahoma tend to be acidic with a median statewide soil pH of 5.9, so that test is not something to be suspicious of.
    The manure (tends to be alkaline) will be of more value to changing your soils pH this spring then the lime will since it takes lime some time to react with the hydrogen ions in the soil.
    More than likely what your soil needs the most of is organic matter and compost is part of that item. To go with that soil test you had done here are some more to do that will tell you more aout your soil.
    1) Structure. From that soil sample put enough of the rest to make a 4 inch level in a clear 1 quart jar, with a tight fitting lid. Fill that jar with water and replace the lid, tightly. Shake the jar vigorously and then let it stand for 24 hours. Your soil will settle out according to soil particle size and weight. A good loam will have about 1-3/4 inch (about 45%) of sand on the bottom. about 1 inch (about 25%) of silt next, about 1 inch (25%) of clay above that, and about 1/4 inch (about 5%) of organic matter on the top.

    1. Drainage. Dig a hole 1 foot square and 1 foot deep and fill that with water. After that water drains away refill the hole with more water and time how long it takes that to drain away. Anything less than 2 hours and your soil drains too quickly and needs more organic matter to slow that drainage down. Anything over 6 hours and the soil drains too slowly and needs lots of organic matter to speed it up.

    3) Tilth. Take a handful of your slightly damp soil and squeeze it tightly. When the pressure is released the soil should hold together in that clump, but when poked with a finger that clump should fall apart.

    4) Smell. What does your soil smell like? A pleasant, rich earthy odor? Putrid, offensive, repugnant odor? The more organic matter in your soil the more active the soil bacteria will be and the nicer your soil will smell.

    5) Life. How many earthworms per shovel full were there? 5 or more indicates a pretty healthy soil. Fewer than 5, according to the Natural Resources Conservation Service, indicates a soil that is not healthy.

  • 16 years ago

    For the record, what kimmsr labels "structure" is actually soil TEXTURE, that is if you want to use correct soil science terminology.

  • 16 years ago

    Hey guys ... the choice of words and their precise definitions seem to arise in these threads from time to time. The STRUCTURE or TEXTURE thing caught my eye, and good old WWW-land provided some clarification. [?]
    ===
    Soil STRUCTURE :
    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:Soil+structure&ei=quyLS9mvMY3QsgO-hrmGAw&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title&ved=0CAYQkAE
    ===
    Most definitions seem to be along the lines:
    "Soil structure is determined by how individual soil granules clump or bind together and aggregate, and therefore, the arrangement of soil pores" .... "This term usually refers to the particle size of the various mineral components of the soil, and the proportions of those minerals."
    ===
    Soil TEXTURE:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soil_texture
    "Soil texture is a soil property used to describe the relative proportion of different grain sizes of mineral particles in a soil. Particles are grouped according to their size into what are called soil separates. These separates are typically named clay, silt, and sand. Soil texture classification is based on the fractions of soil separates present in a soil. The soil texture triangle is a diagram often used to figure out soil textures."
    ===
    Some say toMAHto, some say toMAYto .... I think these definitions are close enough to fuel arguments. I agree that if we are to have confidence in the info found in this forum, that we need to have clarification about TERMS, DEFINITIONS, etc. and I'm sure that is the motive in these discussions.

  • 16 years ago

    Um, those definitions are nowhere near each other.

    and

    "This term usually refers to the particle size of the various mineral components of the soil, and the proportions of those minerals."
    For structure is just plain wrong.

  • 16 years ago

    Okay kids. We can discuss texture and structure elsewhere.

    I would compost the manure for now. That was a poor choice for an organic app. The obvious reason is that manure stinks and will stink for weeks. Instead compost it until it smells beautifully fresh. That might be weeks or months. In the mean time, use shredded bark mulch on top of the soil. I like 2 inches minimum. If you can find Texas shredded cedar, that will do us a huge favor down here and help get rid of our pest juniper (called cedar because of the cedar-ish smell). Underneath that mulch your soil will restore itself in a few months. You can plant right through the mulch if you want to.

  • 16 years ago

    Thank you all very much for your help.

    There is plenty of native grass and the very rare Eastern Red Cedar (oh, wait) growing around. I do not have many trees around, which I'm sure the lack of leaves does not help. I have solicited help in raking up leaves in our parks, so will be adding that also.

    dchall, I should tell you that the manure is already composted, so that shouldn't be a problem.

    I've been pretty lazy I guess, and now I am going to have to make up for it with a lot of work. I knew it was lacking organic matter, but something in me was hoping that soil test would come back with a miracle. That'll teach me!

    Thanks again.