look for a landscape supply dealer. Around here they sell rock and dirt by the yard.

Yep, try your local craigslist. Lots of options for delivery by the yard. You can probably also find free horse or cow manure, if you have a truck - many will load for free. Just be sure to compost it first. You've still got time, even in zone 9.

Many things are sold labeled as "topsoil" and they can be as different as night and day. Some are exceptionally poor and some are...ok but not great.

Raised beds will benefit from using some soil but I don't think it should be your main component. Also, from past discussions here, take care with using Miracle Grow Garden Soil. The company makes it clear that it is meant to be used as a soil amendemnt, not as a primary growing product, but many folks don't pick up on that until it is too late and try to use it alone. It compacts and drains poorly.

Of the things on your list - assuming there isn't any local source of good compost in bulk - then I'd choose the top 3 on your list mixed in thirds. Wouldn't be great, but would likely be ok and could be improved up on over the following years.

Dave

Thanks digdirt. I didn't know that about topsoil. It's a small town and my choices are the usual big box hardware store and wally-world. I am going to a nursery tomorrow to see what they use. Maybe they will be able to get me a bulk quantity.

As for Miracle grow soil, I'd rather not use it if I can. I don't want to add too many synthetic fertilizers (I live by a lake and will be getting my own from there....love that fish water!)

As for Craigslist, I am still searching, but I'm not giving up! That's how I got rid of my potting soil....I had bought it instead of topsoil last year.

Thank you!

We just bought our house about 6 months ago, so I have some "it'll get done when it's done" compost going in a plastic cylinder with holes in it that I for free, but it isn't nearly enough (or ready) to go in the raised beds I'm building.

I'm ordering 10-ish yards of a topsoil/mulch to fill my 2 4x10' beds and then fill in an area where I removed an obscene amount of overgrown vines clinging to every last bit of topsoil where they were. The description of the soil mixture says
"NUTRIENT MULCH:
Composted chicken, horse and cow/steer manure processed through 1/2" screen. Due to the naturally high sand content of chicken manure this product has the consistency of soil. Excellent as a soil amendment used to add high levels of nutrients to the soil and increase water retention abilities. Not recommended as a top dressing because of itÂs soil like appearance."

I figure it should be good for veggie garden soil and as an ammendment my outrageously sandy dirt.

Some, not all,"topsoil" might have as much as 5 percent organic matter in it, but all "topsoil" will be mostly the mineral soil you already have, so why pay a lot of money for something you already have, the mineral part of soil when what you need is organic matter?
If you have, or can get, deciduous tree leaves they would be the best thing to add to your soil right along with compost. Bagged compost from a store would be expensive, but bulk compost, if available in your area, would be somewhat less expensive. Peat moss has very little value, that and shredded tires are about equal in value for what they do to soil.
Look for sources of inexpensive organic matter to add to your soil and forget "topsoil".

Kimmsr (sigh) - the original poster is trying to fill a raised bed. I think the purchase of topsoil is quite right here.

Carroteggs - yes, check with the nursery. Around here, most nurseries sell topsoil in bulk. It will be a great place to check.

Val

Ok, so I will use the top soil sparingly (and read the label), maybe just as a filler since I need 15 cu feet of dirt/compost. I found a place an hour from me that sells chicken manure so I will be getting some of that as well. I read on a another forum that you want diverse compost, not just one kind, so how about a mix of chicken, and cow, and mushroom? I'm not sure where to get aged horse manure, I know where I can get it fresh, though I don't want to burn my plants (or stink up my car).

I read that in Mel's mix he used a coffee can of Lime. Someone on another forum complained about a calcium deficiency when they used 100% compost, so should I add some calcium too? I am growing melons, tomatoes, peppers, peas, onions and flowers. (oh, and whatever else I can squeeze in, too). I am going to the nursery soon, but I plan to just look right now until I get all the prices figured out.

Kimmsr, you seem to often make sweeping statements about what some people "never need" or "always have," but I think we should all keep in mind that circumstances are different for different people.

You often like to say that people "never" need to purchase topsoil, but that simply isn't so. Not everyone "just has" good mineral soil to start with, and even if they do, sometimes there are some excellent reasons to build raised beds, which will need to be filled with something. Personally, I fill raised beds with a mixture of purchased topsoil and organic matter, and it's been a good (and not too expensive) choice for me.

I will give you credit for shifting to saying "If you have, or can get, deciduous tree leaves" rather than claiming that everyone has them...in my treeless city yard, for instance, they're in awfully short supply.

There are a lot of options when you're getting a garden (raised or otherwise) started, and these options involve varying degrees of expense, labor, and patience. We all have different resources available to us, and different amounts to offer in the areas of expense, labor, and patience. I think we'd all do better to help people to work with what they have, or with what feels manageable to them, rather than proclaiming some sort of "Real, True, and Right Way."

Oh golly....the debate on this could be endless :-) Here's some thoughts to consider before making your final decision.

There ARE drawbacks to using 100% organic matter in a raised bed. It will continue to decompose and the decompostion process results in shrinkage and that shrinkage can be considerable depending on exactly what type of OM you are using. That shrinkage also relates to compaction.....as the material decomposes, the texture and particle sizes become very uniform and pore space - the minute open areas between the different particles of different textures - diminishes, often times to the point where it affects oxygenation and good drainage. 100% organic matter can also result in some nitrogen unavailability, until the OM can be consumed and converted by the microbial life. Even lasagna gardening originators and proponents acknowledge adding some sort of soil component to the OM layers for best results.

Economics plays a role as well - processed bagged organic matter will have a higher price tag simply because of the extra processing and handling that's involved. You need some but anything more than about 25% of the total mix is excessive.

Unless you live in a very remote rural area, bulk soil products shouldn't be that hard to locate. Landscapers and developers use them regularly, as do nurseries. Check the yellow pages for 'landscape supplies' or 'bulk soils' and make some calls. Ideally, something often called a 3-way mix (sometimes garden mix) is about perfect for your needs. It is generally some combination of soil, compost or other OM and sand or sawdust, very much like the mixture laurell describes. And it typically offers these components in the correct percentages and at a suitable pH. Mulching your raised bed plantings with compost during the course of the growing season should provide any additional nutrient supplementation they require.

If you have to go with the bagged goods, do it as a ratio of 3 parts "topsoil" or whatever to one of compost.

And skip the vermiculite. It is is expensive, is unnecessary in any kind of outdoor gardening situation (doesn't really provide any value) and once fully saturated, will collapse and add to potential drainage issues.

A really good soil is 45 percent mineral (the clay, sand, and silt particles in whatever ratio is common in your area), about 5 percent organic matter, about 25 percent water, and about 25 percent air. All soils need that organic matter for that amount of air and water to be there because without the OM to do that you will not have them. As the Natural Resources Conservation Service people have stated many times the only problem with most of our soil is the lack of adequate levels of organic matter.
So if someone were to spend money on "topsoil" they would be getting something that contains about 5 percent of what they really need, organic matter, and the rest what they already have and adding tht to the soil they already have will not increase the level of organic matter their soil needs enough to even measure. If what your soil needs is organic matter why pay someone a lot of your hard earned moeny to get something you do not need so you get a little bit of what you do need, that organic matter? It is not difficult to figure out that if your soil has only 1 percent organic matter in it and you want to get the OM level up you need to add to your soil Organic Matter, not more sand, silt, or clay. People that plant in Lasagna beds very often plant in something that is 100 percent organic matter, and the plants the grow there do really well. There are a number of plants, mostly bog plants, that can only grow in 100 percent organic matter. Most all epiphites (Orchids) grow in the organic matter litter that accumulates in the forks of the trees, and will die if planted in a soil. Since organic matter is the only digestable part of the soil it is digested by the Soil Food Web, organic matter does not simply "disappear". Organic matter in the soil is converted by the Soil Food Web into plant nutrients, and all plants have evolved over a much longer time using the nutrients from that organic matter then they have been using synthetic nutrients.
If you have a planting bed of 4 by 10 that needs to be built up 4 inches you will need about 1/2 cubic yard of something to add to the soil already present. If that soil already there does have some OM in it and you add "topsoil" that actually does have 5 percent OM in it, how much actual OM are you adding to your soil? Not very much. However, if you add 1/2 cubic yard of leaf mold to that soil your level of organic matter will increase a great deal, and depending on deeply that is tilled, if it is, in will determine that actual percent of organic matter in the soil. And yes this will need to be done again next year and the year after that, forever. But getting organic matter into the soil is the only way to get a good, healthy soil.

Well made point Kimmsr, it seems so many want to burn you for always saying one doesn't need to buy topsoil. I'm placing raised beds on top of soil that I started to amend last year. I will be filling them w/ home made compost 85%, vermiculite 8-10%, vermicompost 2-3%, and coco coir 2-3%. This math is only based on my economics, I will be putting vermicompost straight from my worm bin, worms - cocoons and all. This is probably going to only fill about 4'' of the 12'' raised bed. I'd go higher if I had more hmc, but this allows me room to mulch w/ straw after it warms up also.

When I move out in a few years (military housing) I will be able to level it all out, take a bit of om w/ me in my rain barrels and spread the rest around the yard to improve the lawn that I cultivated here. (started w/ bare dirt).

OM is the main thing missing from most soil. Lots of minerals are missing also, I addressed that in a thread called granite dust.

Kimm - what you say may be right. I have no idea about the percentages of what makes soil. But are you being deliberately obtuse?

The OP never said anything about lasagna beds. They said RAISED beds. Even I know there is a difference. You should really stop making assumptions that aren't there.

One more thing - white space is your friend.

{{gwi:271410}}

rj_hythloday - Maybe some people would stop picking on Kimm if he didn't post in absolutes.

Some people like having a broken watch around :-)

Val

I'd listen to GG48 and take her advice, she has proven to me to be reliable unlike some others.

As far as the claim by one that OM doesn't "disappear", why does a compost pile lose so much volume over time? This is a rhetorical question by the way.

Lloyd

Organic matter does not "disappear" it is digested by bacteria and that causes a reduction in volume. When the Soil Food web digests that organic matter, the compost, and converts it to plant food it does get used. Einsteins Theory of Relativity applies here, nothing disappears but it is changed from one form to another.
For Val. I'm not the one being obtuse.

Am I gonna have to come sit between you two? lol

All jokes aside, some very good points made in this thread, Since these are raised beds the OP might want to pay a visit to the SFG forum for some more ideas.

Here is a link that might be useful: Square foot gardens

Kimm sometimes you can be so entertaining, this is definitely one of them.

I wonder if maybe when those bacteria digest those carbons in the CP (and in the soil) if maybe they might exhale a bit of carbon dioxide.

Lo and behold that might just match up with the definition of disappear (1)! I used to be able to see all the leaves but now I can't see as many, wow, whodathunkit?

Oh and by the way, I think you might be talking about the Conservation of Mass you know the one that says something about "that mass cannot be created/destroyed, although it may be rearranged in space, and changed into different types of particles", but I could be wrong, I think I slept through that class as well.

ROTFLMAO (again)

Lloyd

I apologize for not providing a link to a reference. (Bold/underline added by me as an aid).

"Carbon is the most abundant element in compost (usually about one half of the total mass). Nitrogen is also present in compost, but in much smaller quantities (usually 1 to 2 percent). The ratio of carbon to nitrogen (C:N) is a common index used for assessing feedstocks and the maturity of any given compost. Nitrogen becomes more concentrated as carbon in organic materials is broken down and liberated as carbon dioxide."

Sorry

Lloyd

Here is a link that might be useful: Organic Materials Management

So I went to the nursery (it was a big one) and they didn't sell in bulk. (go figure). So I went to Home Depot (had same stuff as the nursery, but it was cheaper and closer) and bought topsoil and several bags of generic compost and a very small bag of lime. Oh, and some Black Kow too. I layered small rocks on the bottom of my raised bed then put several bags of topsoil on top, then a compost, then topsoil, compost and so forth. I did forget to put in the newspaper that I had been saving up for this...I guess I can put it on top. I plan on using our fishy lake water to water my plants, so maybe that will help with any nutrient deficiency. I will see what happens. Thank you all for your advice!