Yes grafting can be a world of difference, but over time 10-15 years.. there wont be as much. I do not know belle de crecys habits on own roots, some of the OGR will sucker tremendously on own roots, some not so much, if you are planning on planting side by side without alot of space between, I would suggest grafted.

BTW why do you have such terrible experience with grafts?

Have you ordered from pickering? Its on multiflora , Im not sure about where you are at, buts its tailor made for the north east coast.

Silverkelt.

In my experience it depends on when and how you prune it. I have experience with Pickering BdC (which became own root in 4-5 years) and own root BdC. I don't see any differences in size. I prune my gallicas in January and then lightly shape in August/Septrmber. By the end of summer it will be 6-7 feet tall with some canes even longer. I prune these long canes and shape it to 5-6 feet in August/September. In January, I completely remove canes that are older then 3 year old, take away some twiggy growth and shorthen bush to approx 3-3.5 feet for selfsupporting structure capable of holding its blooms. I don't like to see blooms with face in the mud after spring rain and that is what you will get w/o winter prunning.
Olga

Mine is a 3-year-old band from RVR. It's probably about 4' tall and really starting to shape up nicely. Olga, I tried your approach of a light shaping of the bush in January. This was its first pruning, and I'm really looking forward to seeing the results--it's leafing out like crazy now. If mine is as gorgeous as yours, I'll be thrilled.

lavender_lass, this is a GREAT rose--it's a contender for my very favorite rose of them all.

Thank you.
My approach it to prune significantly (not light prune) in January, especiall if it is already 3 year old, and light prune in August :). I start pruning my gallicas from year one, I think it is important to buid a structure from the beginning. It works in my climate, could be different in other places.
Olga

Olga - I've followed your pruning instructions so far - in January I pruned the three own root Gallicas I got last year, plus the Belle de Crecy I had, down to about three feet. All are leafing out well (Orpheline de Juillet is the only one though that has put out leaves down to the ground). So far so good.

I expect Belle de Crecy to flower because it did last year (I was given suckers of it the year before), and I hope I get a few flowers from the new ones.

But what about feeding?

By "lightly" I mean that I cut BdC back by about 1/3. Pretty light compared to what you see done to some HTs. ;-) Makes for a much nicer looking bush structure. We'll see how it works here. And the gallicas and albas showed how smart they were--no leafing out when it was too early!

As far as grafting goes--the roses I've gotten as grafted plants start out much larger, as you would expect. But the own-root roses catch up REALLY quickly. I got a grafted Ombree Parfait a few months after the BdC band was planted, and the bushes are basically the same size after 2 1/2 years.

In my yard, the roses that have performed the best have been bands planted in fall. They get settled in before frost and grow roots through the rainy and fairly mild winter, then really jump in the spring. My grafted roses have been planted in the spring and then face a long dry summer (I don't water unless things are about to die), so it's not really a fair comparison. Bands planted in spring haven't done as well as those planted in the fall, so no telling what a grafted rose would do in the fall. I might try a fall order from Pickering this year and see.

It's just the opposite here. I plant bands in May or June so that the roses have the summer and early fall to grow. They need to have some roots established before we get our long, cold winters. Snow is usually 3-4 months, but with cold last half of fall and soggy early spring, the garden is "out of commission" for about six months.

That being said, there are a lot of gardeners in this area who grow not only roses, but a tremendous amount of bulbs and early spring blooming shrubs, as you might imagine :)

Own roots (small plants) don't survive here too, if planted in fall.
Olga

Love the great info in this thread. I bought a band of Belle de Crecy last year in a 3-1/2 inch pot. It's waking up nicely, putting out big healthy leaves this Spring. Haven't transplanted, yet.

How do gallicas do if kept in pots. I know g's produce suckers, if anyone's had the experience, I'd love to hear.

In my experience own root gallicas don't like to be in pots. Probably grafted gallica can be grown this way,don't know.
Olga

One of the very best things about living where bands do well in the fall--I can hit all the great end of season sales!

Lavender lass, I can't imagine having snow for that long! Brrrrr! I'd have to have a hot chocolate IV hookup.

Lucretia- A hot chocolate IV...that's not a bad idea (LOL) This year wasn't so bad...not like the last two winters...but it's been snowing the last few mornings. Very strange weather, even for our side of the state.

Are you in Washington or Oregon? The west side is so pretty, especially in the spring :)

I think most people think that's what all of Washington looks like, but our area is much more like Idaho and Montana.

I'm in Washington, a little way west of Tacoma. This is an incredibly gorgeous part of the country. We'll be out here 4 years in just 2 weeks, after many (don't want to say how many, but a lot!) years in Florida. This is gardening paradise, and the first time I've really grown roses (too much spraying required where I've lived before, and all the local nurseries offered were hybrid teas.) We really love the area.

Finding roses like Belle de Crecy has been a real eye opener. Who knew that roses could have pretty bushes, that actually look like bushes and not thorny sticks, and that some of them turned color and have gorgeous hips in the fall? And such tough plants! Some of these old roses are cast iron here--stuck in the ground (glacial till, not even great soil) as bands with a handfull of organic food and some compost if they're lucky, not even watered in if the ground is wet enough from rain. A little alfalfa meal and a handful of fertilizer in the spring, and they're growing (IMO) like mad. No extra water seems to be needed if they're planted at the start of the rainy season, even with a summer like we had last year. They would probably do better with more attention, but they're good enough for me without it, so they're neglected and abused and still make good looking bushes with a bunch of blooms. My kind of plants! I'm at the point now where if they're all fussy, they're going to be replaced by a plant that thrives on neglect. Belle de Crecy seems to be a real keeper.

Olga- Meant to say earlier, Beautiful pictures of your Belle de Crecy!

Lucretia- Have you been over to the east side of the state? The central part is pretty dry, but things start to green up as you get into eastern Washington. Coeur d'Alene (about 20 miles into Idaho) is beautiful! If you ever get the chance, that's a beautiful lake to visit :)

I'm bumping this up to show Olga's pictures to someone on the Rose forum :)

lavender_lass,

A trip to Eastern Washington is on our list of things to do. We want to go in the summer (attempting mountain passes with chance of snow gives me the heebie-jeebies!) Gotta get all the spring chores done, anyway, including potting up a bunch of rose seedlings. Thought I'd give growing from seed a try, and now I have more than 100 babies and more on the way--eek!

Summer is a much better time to drive over the passes :)

It's warm here in the summers, but it's a dry heat, so it's not too bad and a lot more fun if you're at the lake. That's why I don't have very many gardening friends in my area...most of them would rather spend the weekend at the lake (but a few have been admiring my garden lately, so maybe there's hope yet) LOL.