MG has some salts in it, but a little won't kill anything. I had a couple yards of leftover bark mulch, and most of a bag of lawn fertilizer left by the last owner of my last house. I mixed the fert in, and just let it go- it composted nicely over the next year or so and the material was great.

MG is acting as a nitrogen source (like those miracle compost boosters that people pay too much for). Fresh grass clippings, or alfalfa meal will probably do it better and not leach out of the pile.

Fresh horse manure is much better at heating than adding chemicals.

You cannot possibility get results that justifies the cost and I don't think you will get anything of lasting value.

I think it will help if you have a lot of browns, but I wouldn't do it. There are cheaper and better ways to get "N" into the pile.

Pour a bottle of beer or a can of coca cola into it. It is the sugar that gets it heated up. Wine helps too. Or go simple, just add a hand full of plain white sugar.

The sugar is another brown. If you want to heat it up, you need some hot greens.

Anyone ever heard of adding cheap dog kibble? Supposed to be great at heating up a stubborn compost pile.

I don't know about MG heating up compost, but when I put my seedlings in 4" pots with compost, there are no worms that I can see. After a month of fertilizing with MG there are always worms upon planting. So I ignore the negative posts regarding MG, if worms thrive I figure MG is my friend.

Gary

Gary- are you suggesting that MG acts as phlogiston in some sort of spontaneous generation of worms? :)

I imagine that egg capsules hatched for you.

If it's dilute, MG isn't going to cause serious issues. It's just expensive for heating compost- especially when it can be done for free, and using farm/kitchen/garden waste

If you are going to purchase something, why not use Urea (46-0-0) instead of Miracle Grow? It it both cheaper and higher in Nitrogen than MG.

If you're looking for a natural way to start a pile, you already have it. Just piss in it a few times and the compost pile should start.

dchall,

Actually sugar will cause it to heat up. Microbes will drop the orange peels and wood chips they were chewing on and eat sugar instead because it is a much easier source of energy. The pile will heat until the sugar is gone, then they will go back to the wood chips. When it is all said and done you will have made more heat, but not more compost so it is basically a waste of time.

fertilizersalesman,

I think increasing the aerobic microbe population exponentially is time well spent.

Miracle Grow will work if money is no object. There are cheaper ways, and ways to heat it organically. I guess it comes down to whether you want to stay organic or "mostly" organic.

rangier

"I think increasing the aerobic microbe population exponentially is time well spent. "

When their food source is gone- then so are they.

When the added food source that is the subject of this thread is gone, they, in far greater numbers, go back to the business of working on the pile. More workers will do the job faster.

When they run out of food, many WILL die, contributing themselves and their nutrients and protein to the pile, and to the survivers. It's all good.

rangier

I dunno- I really don't think so. The numbers are related to the food source contents. The numbers fluctuate very quickly based on reproduction times and sensitivity of the bugs. They assume the right population for the food source- put in too may, they die back to that level. The protein that they contribute when they die- is made of material that they consumed from the pile already (they neither create nor destroy matter). Now- the heat they generate may make food more available, as heat itself will disrupt cell walls, make moisture penetrate into some materials better, and will catalyze breakdown of proteins- so maybe the food source is changed in the process too.

I am not a proponent of the idea that microbe populations need help or even really receive help by addition of microbes to composting situations- as evidenced by the extremely fast temperature ramping in a new pile without addition of "seeding" compost or soil.

PeopleÂs ideas about microbes tend to be somewhat askew. Microbes are not like sheep where you need a good breeding program and have to give them tender loving care and provide a happy home or they will die. Just the opposite is the case. We are living on planet where microbes rule. There is nothing you can do to keep microbes out of anywhere let alone a compost pile.

The microbes in your compost pile will eat and multiply rapidly until something in their environment limits them. It might be temperature, water, pH, or a nutrient like nitrogen. They will then sit there doing nothing until the limitation is removed, then they will go full bore until they reach another limitation, then they will once again wait. The idea behind keeping the compost moist, aerated and at a good carbon nitrogen ratio is to reduce things that limit microbial activity.

Adding microbes is a waste time. If the environment in the pile was suitable for growth, something already there would be exploiting the situation and that population would be going full tilt. The populations of critters in the compost pile are constantly evolving to fill the niches that are available in that particular environment. Besides being unnecessary, added microbes from somewhere else will never be able to compete with the locals.

Adding miracle grow will reduce the nitrogen limitation allowing a larger population of microbes to utilize the carbon as fuel resulting in faster composting. As the microbes die off the nitrogen is recycled and used by the next generation. Eventually the easy carbon is used up and the resistant materials limit microbial growth and the activity slows down, the pile cools off and the gardener pronounces it "finished."

Pablo and fertilizersalesman,

When did I say anything about adding innoculants (seeding)? Am I missing something here? This thread is about adding Miracle Gro to heat up a pile. Others have suggested other ways to get the pile to heat up.

Don't we all agree that there are benefits to having a pile heat up for at least awhile to kill weed seeds and pathogens? Whether we do or not, the original question was from maupin who apparently wants his to heat up.

rangier

Rangier,

I was just throwing out some general information, no criticism intended. As far as heat goes I would say yes, it does help reduce pathogens and weeds but I would not go as far as saying that compost is 'sterile' which I hear from time to time. In my mind the primary benefit of composting is to generate high quality organic matter. Whether this is achieved aerobically or anaerobically in weeks or years is not terribly important to me. Miracle-Gro will certainly speed up the process if that is the goal.

Rangier- I was responding to your assertion that:

"When the added food source that is the subject of this thread is gone, they, in far greater numbers, go back to the business of working on the pile. More workers will do the job faster. "

I disagree with that statement for the reasons I stated above. I do agree with your second statement:

"When they run out of food, many WILL die, contributing themselves and their nutrients and protein to the pile, and to the survivers. "

However- all that they contain came from the pile, so there's no net benefit to having that boosted population. Heat to kill seeds is a noble cause, but not one that you addressed in that post that we commented on.

Much ado about nothing. I put whatever is at hand into the compost piles and we have a great garden.

Miracle Grow won't hurt but is an expensive alternative to throwing on any organics. I'm always at least a year ahead so have no need for faster compost. My experience, however, is that mixing in a few buckets of well rotted manure or soil does more to stimulate the pile than anything else.

The downside of using Miracle Grow is supporting the chemical industry which spends millions to perpetuate poor gardening practices. Some of the chemical products do work but work no better or not as well as good soil management. Limited amounts of chemicals are fine for indoor use in house plants but aren't needed outdoors.

I don't know about Miracle Grow in compost, because mine is made out of all free stuff, and heats up just fine. (I get my horse manure by shovelling it into buckets, however much I want, no need for them to be 50 lbs. at a throw?!?)

But I really had to address this post from Gary: "I don't know about MG heating up compost, but when I put my seedlings in 4" pots with compost, there are no worms that I can see. After a month of fertilizing with MG there are always worms upon planting. So I ignore the negative posts regarding MG, if worms thrive I figure MG is my friend."

When you put the compost into pots, maybe there aren't worms. But after a short time, if the pots are on the ground, worms go into the pots to get at the compost. Happens to me all the time, and I am NOT putting Miracle Grow on anything. So I would have to tell you that the worms are not a result of the Miracle Grow. What would Miracle Grow do for worms? They want organic material, that is what they are going after.

Marcia

Pablo, I like your phlogiston theory, quite cute, but not what I was suggesting. I have a sneaking suspicion that you knew that ;)
I don't know the secret life of worm eggs, but I assume they are everywhere, just waiting for the right conditions to hatch.

Marcia, no I didn't mean to imply that worms love MG, only that they tolerate it and apparently tolerate it well if the eggs hatch and the worms thrive. Pots touch the ground? How gouache! Actually I don't let my seedling touch the ground to attempt to trick the many marauders that lurk, waiting for the cover of nightfall!

So to be more clear about what I was trying to say, I am making the assumption that if worms eggs hatch and worms multiply, then MG in recommended dilute amounts is not especially poisonous to earthworms. I am making a big leap of faith from here to say that if the seedlings thrive, earthworms thrive then MG is relatively OK to use. No, I don't have any data regarding all the other soil organism that may or may not be necessary for a good crop. I will say that I have a AeroGarden hydroponic in the house and it is not too organic, to say the least. I am happy with the high growth rate and plant quality that it produces.

That said, I buy and make compost by the ton to improve my clay and sand 'soil'. I will be among the first to agree that adding massive quantities of compost is THE way to improve your soil and your crops (but you still may catch me adding MG when plants look like they could use some more fertilizer).

Gary

I've use plenty of MG in the past. It is the quick shot in the arm for plants that are growing in poor soil, and it can even give plants growing in good soil a boost. It does very little to feed your soil and can become a crutch.

As to using it on the compost pile. If you are one to desire a chemical product for every ill then it will work to provide some nitrogen. I have a far cheaper alternative, it was mentioned further up the thread as well. Urine! Your very own makes a really powerful nitrogen source for the compost pile.

Someone else recomended using urea (probably synthetic) I'm sure it will work too but again it is chemical. If you use your own urine on your compost pile, you are helping give back nutrients to the soil that you took out. Essentially closing the loop so to say. (perhaps not perfectly but it is a step in the right direction.)

I guess it's not inconceivable that worms would be attracted to pots with MG added to the soil. Worms do not like MG or any other chemical fertilizer - of this I am sure. But they do like bacteria. If the MG caused a temporary bloom of bacterial growth, then it sounds plausible to me that worms might be attracted to the fun.

That said, I would NOT recommend using it as a way to encourage your local worm population. Similarly, adding MG to the compost pile may produce a short term boost in microbial activity, but that's beside the point. It's a silly thing to do. :-)

-Diggity

I expect the moisture in the seedling pots is probably what supported the worms. The MG was probably beside the point though as the poster noted, the proper strength of MG at least did not kill those worms.

I've used MG in the past just to get rid of it since it doesn't go in the garden anymore. Didn't seem to do anything harmful or helpful. If I want to jazz up a new compost pile I just throw in some used coffee grounds and water so it'll spread around and soak in. Worms really like coffee grounds too. Best Regards all.