Or, grafted on R. multiflora and the graft buried deeper. Are there any green canes under the soil?

I had to cut down two on Dr. Huey down to the ground, and there are just little tufts of growth starting. And, own root hybrid teas are a horror show for me, but I needed a new Ginger Hill, and could only find it own root. My (not)Natasha Monet is own root, 7 years in the ground and is still puny, and died back to the ground.

This was a very, very bad winter, the worst for totally dead and dieback since I have grown roses (18 years).

I have many hybrid teas that were grafted. I planted the bud unions 4-6 inches deep and all have survived my winters. They get a layer of oak leaves as protection but hybrid teas are not the hardiest of roses and most required severe pruning although they all have some new growth coming from the base.
One advantage to planting deep is that portion of cane above the bud union and below the soil surface has rooted and my hybrid teas are now all own root plants.

I dunno. I had about equal success with grafted vs. own-root, so I am figuring it just depends on the variety of rose.

I had some grafted plants do just as well as own-root, and some own-root that did just as poorly as grafted ones.

Oh, I also lost an own root mini flora (Dr. John Dickman) that had been in the ground for 4 years.

About three or four years ago there was a very freaky winter in the Northeast, where in the Boston area the temps. remained consistently in the 40's & 50's (even up into the 60's!) until February, and then in the second week of February we suddenly had a really cold snap, cold as it usually gets in the coldest part of the winter in a fairly cold winter (with low temps. below zero).

I lost my White Rose of York that winter (Rosa x alba semi-plena), a big alba rose usually considered hardy into zone 3. I also had a couple of years prior purchased to own-root hybrid teas (Fragrant Cloud & Paul Shirville) from Roses Unlimited which lost all of their above ground growth.

They're both still here. After that winter I didn't see new growth from them again until the following July, but they've been gradually building themselves back ever since. (They're in a fairly heavily shaded bed, so it's not the best of locations from which to make a comeback, but nonetheless they're still growing & blooming.)

On the other hand I've read Mad Gallica many times here make the observation that for her own-root roses are consistently no better than grafted ones, and that's when they aren't worse.

I think it depends upon where you live and what roses you're growing (& what rootstocks you've got them on if they're grafted). My White Rose of York was grafted, the HT's were own-root. However, the one rose of the four that suffered no damage at all (other than mild tip damage) was a grafted moss rose: Salet.

Seems to me you may be suffering winter damage to the variety of rose you purchased, not the rootstock itself. Unless roses are grafted on Fortuniana (which is winter sensitive), Dr. Huey and Multiflora rootstocks should winter over just fine in zone 6. I choose own root if possible for container roses, otherwise Dr. Huey does best as my soil tends towards a neutral PH and Multiflora prefers a more acidic soil. Own root will work in ground as well, as long as the variety is naturally vigorous without the extra oomph a rootstock provides.

By and large, my feeling is that a plant that cannot survive on its own roots in my zone should not be planted. It is like having a plant on life support. I'm a big believer in survival of the fittest--it makes for a healthier garden, not to mention less labor intensive and cheaper.

I agree 100% with maryl. It is the variety of rose, not whether grafted or not. If anything, they would probably do better grafted versus own-root in a northern zone.

I do realize I am in zone 5 and you are in zone 6, but I grow a few HTs (grafted) mostly at my client's garden and a couple in my own, Mr. Lincoln and Double Delight included. After an average winter here, they all need to be cut back to the ground. Which is par for the course here for most modern roses, but the thing is is that the HTs just don't recover as well from that kind of winter damage. Many years they are stingy in showing any green growth or sending out new canes in the spring. Many years some of them are reduced to one- or two-cane wonders and that's how big they get the whole year.

OTOH, my Austins, which are grafted on Multiflora or Dr. Huey (and some own root) need to have a severe pruning after most winters, but they are quick to send up new growth. And I can always see way more green deep down low than I do on the HTs. They all recover to their normal heights by June, whereas the HTs may be struggling along with just a few canes.

All my roses except the own-root have the graft buried 4-6 inches.

I can't do multiflora because I have (amended) alkaline soil. So all of my grafts are Dr Huey. I would say if there is no growth by mid May I will ditch them?

My Austins had some winter damage but nothing compared to the HTs.

HTs are winter tender because of the Tea in them--I don't know anyone around CT that actually grows teas, though I am going to try Lady Hillingdon as an experiment this coming winter. I think the biggest factor is the size of the roots--grafted plants typically do better because they start off with bigger root systems--but large own roots also do well--they are just a lot harder to find. J&P does sell a few large own root roses. Burying the bud union will help, but it helps even more to protect the bottom foot of the canes with burlap or some other winter protection. Another factor is the vigor and health of the rose--many HTs just aren't as vigorous as shrub roses. I think it helps a great deal to keep the rose healthy and disease free all the way until frost kills the leaves, but few rosarians can do that with their HTs--too high maintenance.

The hardiness and most importantly, the vigour that is inherent to the rose variety is a more relevant determination of bounce-back ability in spring than whether the rose is grafted or own-root. Hybrid Teas, by and large, lack both hardiness and vigour which can make them difficult plants to grow in colder zones, grafted or otherwise.

Because of the lack of vigour, most HT's on their own-roots and without the extra vigour boost that the graft affords them, will not do well in cold zones when winter killed to the ground. Most need the extra energy from the graft... Multiflora is hardier than Huey, as the latter understock tends to decline in colder zones after 3-4 years of harsh winters regardless of soil type. I would still classify anything zone 6 and below as a 'cold zone'.

Own-root roses work especially well, only when the variety is both hardy and vigorous by nature. Something you won't find in too many HT's. Otherwise, there is little advantage to own-root roses and most grafted roses that are buried go largely own-root anyway after a few years.

If you are growing HT's. The grafted ones will need to be buried 2-4" below the soil. I'd also recommend you only pick varieties that are known for their outstanding vigour as even when winter killed, these HT's will bounce back with strong new growth in spring. The Hybrid Tea's 'Folklore' and 'Grand Amore' would be two good examples of such varieties. On the flip side, HT roses like 'Just Joey', while exceptionally beautiful, would be on the opposite end of the vigour spectrum.

All fortuniana grafted roses are dead so I will not try them again.
As to grafted versus own root, I agree with those who say that depends on the variety but it also depends on the micro climate in the yard the rose was planted. I lost, after 7 or 8 years my own root Devoniensis that was planted in the most protected area in my backyard. To my surprise, I lost my own root First prize, also planted in a protected area. All Just Joeys, grafted on multiflora and planted in various places are gone though they survived much tougher, colder winters several times before. Own root September morn, on the other hand, that I assumed dead, just started to return - this rose was planted in the front in an a bed very exposed to northern wind; some SDLM sports didn't make it in the same bed while one small bourbon from Vintage survived in a pot.

In some instances the fate of the rose is quite self-explanatory; in some cases is puzzling.

Ditto on 'Just Joey' not having enough vigor to flourish in a climate where it is not cane hardy--even if grafted. I tried it twice.

So would you all agree if there is no growth at all by mid May, they are not alive?

No. My two didn't reappear until July.

When the reappeared, did they do anything that year? Or the next year? Mister Lincoln was already a one-caner for me.

Replacing on May 15 isn't a bad idea if you don't mind the expense.

redsox, mine are in a pretty heavily shaded bed (even in June once everything's leafed out there's no afternoon sun and there isn't full sun all morning, either), so no, they showed nothing that year except leaves. They did flower a little bit the next year, and continue to rebuild.

If you are already frustrated with Mr. Lincoln, pitch it. It's got terrific flowers, but it's an ugly plant. If I was growing roses to sell at a farmer's market I'd definitely grow a big long row of them if I had the right land to do it, but I'd only do so for flower production purposes.

Life's too short to be frustrated by a plant that isn't ever going to look good in your garden, and it's not as if Mr. Lincoln is the only gorgeous, heavily fragrant dark red hybrid tea, not when you could replace it with Crimson Glory, New Yorker, etc.

York, as if I could grow a rose called "New Yorker." Please see my screen name. :-)

The above posts fail to acknowledge the precarious relationship between the root stock and grafted variety of bare root budded roses. Unless the bond between the two is really strong, hard freezes can cause the bond to separate thus killing the grafted variety. Burying the bud union pretty much eliminates this problem as the temperature under 4-6 inches of soil doesn't get much below 32 degrees.
The bud union can handle this temperature well.
None of my hybrid teas planted deep have succumbed to winter kill even though exposed canes on some of them always die back to the ground. The little bit of oak leaf cover provided over the winter quarantees new growth emerging when I remove the leaves each spring.
I always amazes me how quickly the bushes grow and bloom each year.
Right now my dead to the ground roses are already 6-8 inches tall.

Redsox, I would say yes, if there is no visible new growth by mid May then chuck the plants. Although it is likely some of them are still alive (technically speaking), if they haven't started to grow by then, esp. in zone 6, then I would venture to say that if they do start to grow sometime after that they will be totally unimpressive and unsubstantial and just kind of chug along (like the one-cane wonders). No sense babying them along even if they are technically alive because they likely won't do much performing for the next couple years if they do recover, and another likely outcome is they will just die a slow death after trying to put out new growth.

Maybe replace them with either the same varieties if that's what you were really wanting to grow and chalk up their demise to an unusually harsh winter and hope for the best in following years, or replace them with different varieties of the non-HT kind.

I will say I am kind of surprised at your losses in zone 6. Those HTs in my client's garden are going on 4 years old now, although I did lose a Mr. Lincoln one year and replaced him with another Mr. L. They are growing in a south-side microclimate but after the first winter I didn't do any protection for them. They do need to be cut way way back after each winter, but they are very much alive after that. They definitely do not have the vigor of my Austins, though, and never amount to much as far as their shape and size. She insists on keeping them for the occasional cut flowers, but if they were in my garden I would SP them or if I really loved them, put them in containers and in the garage for the winter.

After about 5 years of growing Mr. Lincoln I chucked it even without the winter damage. An 8 foot plus tall rose is not to my liking.....I may have a rose that didn't make it through the winter myself. It's only put out a few puny leaves while every other rose is almost fully leafed out. I will pitch it the 1st of May if it doesn't show improvement. Considering our zone difference that would translate to your May 15th deadline.

Well, we certainly didn't bury the bud union 4 to 6 inches deep. Maybe that is part of the problem. Some of these HTs were the first we planted at this house, before I found gardenweb. I don't even think with our soil we could dig down 6 inches without a Bobcat :-). As it is, our soil is so rock hard my husband does the digging for me. It is even hard for him.

The strange thing about the extent of my winter damage was that the last two winters I had so little winter damage and really less than a lot of the other growers I know. I attributed this to the face that the HTs are against a walkway with the house on the other side which acts as a windbreak. But last year, after an experienced grower helped me prune, I found a lot of winter type damage later in the season. I could not figure that out but I thought that maybe I should have pruned more in spring.

I have a friend who grows roses here who is elderly and isn't really able to take great care of her roses anymore. By the end of the season there were very few leaves left, I imagine from blackspot. I'm not sure she waters either. And her roses were in much better condition than mine.

Michael, I would not be generating that great an expense because I already have several roses in pots that are without a home and I could easily replace with those.

Hi Redsox,
I was just wondering where in KY you were? I'm 15 miles from Lexington. Its funny, this winter I had to go overseas for 2mths so I just piled the mulch up high and said a prayer and left my roses. I didn't lose a one and didn't even have a lot of dieback. Amazing. They are in a bed with a westerly aspect and some protection from wind. Best winter for me ever! I may go away every winter now!

If you cannot dig deep enough to plant your bud union deep, use raised beds. You can make individual ones for your hybrid teas. A square wooden box, landscape timbers or something fancier like landscape stones in a circle will work. Just make sure they're wide enough to elminate freezing from the side in winter. I suspect a 4x4 raised space about 8 inches deep above your current soil surface for each hybrid tea should be enough.
You still want to dig as deep as you can in the native soil to make sure the bud union is deep enough even with the raised area.
Look at the bud unions on your hybrid teas now. If they are two inches above the surface, you'll need 8 inches of soil on them to get them 6 inches deep.

Michael, the mystery is that Just Joey survived temps when we went down to 10F or even below. The last two winters were not that cold at all. The previous winter was bad because it was fluctuating every second or third day between below and above freezing and some plants didn't adjust to that; the last one was bad because it was the longest winter since I have been living in NC but it wasn't too cold. That is the cause of my puzzlement.
An additional explanation could be that my plants were not prepared for winter because I didn't spray them, actually I didn't do anything with or for them last year, so they were in a bad shape to begin with. I didn't even leave the house except for doctor's visits and surgery last year.

You may have had winter damage all along but didn't realize it--the canes were still alive but not as vigorous as they should be, setting the bush back and making them more vulnerable to winter damage.

Burying 4-6" deep is not necessary in zone 6. I bury the top 1-2" below grade. Such roses can still go own-root if they want to.

Each region of the country is a little different..

From wasted amounts of dollars in north east, I can tell you, that HTs, floribundas, grandiflorias, etc.. just do not hack it year after year.. Sure with deeply buried grafts and some winter covering, they will last longer, but after trying dozens of these varieties, I found one that did OK in my zone and that was Sunset Celebration, that would typically have around 6 inches of cane left, it did very well for 4-5 years and wasnt a complete blackspot disaster as well.

Granted I havnt tried every variety, but where I had them was basically in front of the house at the time, I just wanted lower bushes becuase the windows were not high there. No worries there as they never got above 4-5 feet max in any giving year. I tried alot of the popular ones, ala Oklohoma, Mr Lincoln, Double Delight, Sunset Celebration, Christinan Dior, I cant really remember all of them now, Oh I know I had a Queen Elizabeth in there as well. I tried alot more including stuff like Victorian Spice. But I couldnt picture not buying repeat flowering varieties at the time.. I pictured dozens of blooms throughout the season.

I spend hundreds of dollars on these.. none of them lasted more than 4-5 years really.

Then I discovered gardenweb, I also relized that my garden season is pretty short, mid june to late august. A OGR rose that blooms for 4-6 weeks can be a third of my season. Alot of these also are highly fragrant, BS resistand and hardy.

I basically order 4-5 hardies now and a couple of moderns a year or remonont ones that I try to keep alive.

Even though I had very good success with Austins in my zone 5a (close to 4b garden) , they hated my move to my new house, I lost alot of these for some reason.. even though I didnt lose a one of my OGR's the austins after transplant just shrivled and died on me, except for the hardiest varieties, they all appears to have survived in thier pots covered over winter, but I guess they just didnt like it.

Bucks did nothing for me, I tried over a dozen of these that died as well.. The one caveat is I didnt try some of the hardiest ones like applejack or quiteness, basically becuase I had two dozen austins at the time , alot were already pink or pink blends and I didnt see room on adding these. I tried all of the blends that looked nice to my eye, and they all died, winter sunset, prarie sunrise, harvest, honeysweet... etc.. none of them made it here.

Its up to you, but to me, plant where you live, if your willing to take the losses, plant what you like. But there are hundreds of different roses that are hardier than HT's that have great form and fragrance, including OGR's and some modern shrubs.

Silverkelt

Ditto on Sunset Celebration (Warm Wishes) being substantially hardier than most HTs. Another is Savoy Hotel. These have gorgeous flowers as well, plus Warm Wishes has outstanding color and fragrance. Olympiad is also relatively hardy, and Garden Party is compared to other white HTs.