and another one bites the dust .... lol

i have a bunch of young tulip poplars .... very prone to wind damage ... and not surprising based on their growth rate ...

but what might convince her otherwise.... is that i THINK it takes upwards of 20 years before they flower ... she better be a young chickee if she ever wants to see that ...

a slower growing plant.. at least in my yard is this one ... and it will cost a lot more than a common tulip poplar ..... is below ...

regardless.. let her make her own mistakes .... BTW .. i have 5 acres.. and the one closest to the house is at least 150 feet away ...ken

Aesculus x carnea 'O'Neill Red'
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How far away from the house would it be planted?

This can be a huge and impressive tree. A couple of summers back we hiked a trail down a mountain leading to base of Whitewater Falls in NC. The cool side of this mtn. had numerous Tulip Poplars in the 150' range, free of branching for 60'-80' up.

This one grows at Monticello. I have no idea when it was planted, but safe to say its been around for awhile.

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I have them, and will plant more, but would be reluctant to have one very close to the house - my mature ones lose branches in strong winds, usually not large branches, but....

That said, you can be SO careful that nothing over 30' gets planted within 30' of a building, and I think that is a grave mistake. In fact, I would rather a tulip tree close to my house than an oak, simply because the trunk naturally tends to be bare, without major branches, until it gets pretty tall, so I would have to do less trimming to keep branches off the sides of the house and off the roof.

If your friend can take a photo of her house and then either draw, cut out or otherwise (scan into a computer?) create an image of a tulip tree at relative maturity, and decide it won't overwhelm her house, then she should go ahead. I WOULD plant it at least 15' from the house, just to keep the lower branches clear of the house as it grows, and to not have root problems - which tulip trees aren't noted for, but...

Ken is right that it takes 12-20 years for a tulip tree to get big enough to flower, but if she leaves the lower branches on it - they tend to be short on mine in the fields - then the flowers will be more accessible from ground level.

Basic, those are gorgeous pictures! What a tree!

I checked my Forest Farm catalog, and they don't list any dwarf liriodendron tulipifera cultivars, so there probably aren't any - that's too bad, because the dwarfs seem to bloom younger.
The Liriodendron tulipifera that was in the bottom of the hollow on my property was nearly as big as the one in your pictures, Basic. It got completely uprooted by the hurricane, and you can't believe what that looked like! The root - on its side - towered over me, and it took forever for them to cut up the log.
In my book Strangers in High Places by Michael Frome, there's a picture of a man in overalls (so he was probably one of those turn of the last century loggers) standing next to a huge one - the Tennessee/North Carolina area must be where they reach their maximum size!
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Sherry

Thank you to everyone who responded so promptly. I am now quite sure that this tree is not suitable, as my friend's front yard is very small.
Ken, that red horsechestnut is beautiful... is it as lovely to look at during the rest of the year?
Coralbelle

Coralbelle, tell her to get one of these small Tulip tree cultivars:
Ardis Tulip Poplar (Liriodendron tulipifera 'Ardis')
Ardis grows 25' to 30' tall by 15' wide
Click for picture and info
OR
Little Volunteer Tulip Poplar (Liriodendron tulipifera 'Little Volunteer')
Little Volunteer grows 30' tall by 20' wide. (a little larger than Ardis Tulip Poplar but still not as large as the 100+ foot tall normal Tulip Trees).
Click for picture and info

That is a incredible Tulip tree Sherry. I think that is biggest Tulip tree I have ever seen, I believe the biggest one I have ever seen before is about half that size. Currently the tallest Tulip tree is 178 feet tall in North Carolina, I bet that one was likely 190 to maybe 200 feet tall and one that size would have been over 1000 years old compared to the size of the oldest one living at 435 years old. I wish those huge giants were still alive today.

I purchased a dwarf Liriodendron from Songsparrow.com last year. I checked the online catalog and the tree is not offered this year. You could email or call them to see if they have any, but just not enough to list. The tree is Liriodendron tulipifera 'Ardis Dwarf'. A MUCH smaller tree in all respects.
Mike

The species is one of the largest eastern native trees. 'Ardis' was selected back in 1957 but may always be quite scarce in nurseries (pounce on any decent specimens you see offered) - unless a tissue culture lab picks it up. 'Fastigiatum' might be another option, not short (one in Scotland was 78 feet high in 1992) but narrower than usual and probably easier to find than 'Ardis'.

Looks like it has normal vigor, hard to believe these poplar-like propagules are going to mature as small as indicated. Apparently given a boost by being put on strong seedling rootstocks, maybe even top-grafted from the look of the tall, bare, thick trunks shown.

Forest farm has a fastigiate variety.

I have a couple of the arnold columnar tulip poplars that I planted in a tight space. They do grow extremely fast though and would be a very tall tree for a small front yard.

'Arnold' is a synonym of 'Fastigiatum'. 'Pyramidalis' is also the same tree. 'Fastigiatum' is a preferred name.

Thank you all for the information about the smaller tulip trees. I will see if they are available around here, because it seems that a smaller tree would make everyone happy.
I continue to be amazed at the wealth of knowledge on this forum!
Coralbelle

Wow!
I really need to get out more. The largest tree I have ever seen in person was a red oak about as wide as the tulip poplar in basic's pictures.
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I was under the impression that only trees like redwoods or some in the jungle got that large. I guess some eastern species have the potential as well, but no big ones made it through the lumbering and clear cutting of the settlers. Supposedly at the time of the revolution, there were white pines that were near 200', but they were all used for ships.

Yes, klavier, if they'd just left the biggest ones alone, instead of using them for timber, think what'd they'd be today!
That's a big tree in your picture, too!
Sherry

For a table of what's left...

Here is a link that might be useful: TALLEST EXAMPLES OF EASTERN NATIVE TREE SPECIES

I didn't take the time just now to look through bboys list, but I hear tell there are a few white pines in Michigans Upper Peninsula exceeding 200 ft. In the Marquette vicinity, I believe.

+oM

Michigan is the national home of astronomical tree dimensions. The veracity of those reports depends on with whom they originated, and by what method the measurements were acquired. The Tallest etc. page I linked to above is from the web site of Eastern Native Tree Society (E.N.T.S.). It does seem to date from four years ago.

Great Smoky Mtns pops up a lot on the list: must be a fertile place.

There's a national park there, too.

From the same page:

"Most have been found at prominent natural areas and forest preserves, especially old-growth forests in the Southern Appalachians, where exceptional tree heights reflect the optimum growing conditions. There is often considerable difference in height between trees of a given species in different states; smaller specimens may be at the edge of their natural range, and affected by adverse climatic conditions, or inherent genetic characteristics. Trees in some states have been sampled little or not at all. A limiting factor common to all areas is the effect of logging, agricultural activities, and development. This has resulted in an extreme scarcity of old undisturbed woodlands in the non-mountainous areas, and a consequent imbalance in the representative habitats available for maximum height studies."

The trees on that list all come from Atlantic coastal states. They aren't necessarily the national champions, as a matter of fact, I've got a sweetleaf/symplocos tinctoria that's undoubtedly taller than the their 45' tall "champ" and I know mine is bigger at about 4' high on the trunk than the 1'4" circumference listed. MS is in the east - the national champion is in Virginia, an Atlantic coastal state, also. Here's my sweetleaf -
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Sherry

"The trees on that list all come from Atlantic coastal states."

I should have said, "Most all the trees on that list come from Atlantic coastal states." There were a few listed from interior states.

Sherry

I thought I'd seen pics of big tuliptrees, but that old one in the book takes the cake. It must be 20' in dia. Makes the Monticello (Virginia) one look like a stick.

Tulip trees also thrive in the UK. There is a town swuare in the next street to mine which was built in the 1770-80s. At one end is a huge copper beech and at the other a tulip tree about the same size as the Monticello tree. I imagine they were planted about the same time as the square was built.

Another factor to consider in the incidence of big trees of record is the activities of individual searchers. Back when I read up on those big MI pines, I noticed a huge number of MI trees were nominated by the same individual. So...if someone in a certain geographic area is very busy searching for big stuff, it only stands to reason that the area where he/she searches will have more representatives. Not to take anything away from Michigans U.P. I used to live up there and there are some great trees there.

+oM

The E.N.T.S. list is tall trees. American Forests lists those thought big overall as National Champions. Unfortunately, some of theirs are misidentified and mis-measured.

Flora, one of my favorite books is the classic Bartram's Travels. The first sentence reads, "At the request of Dr. Fothergill, of London, to search the Floridas, and the western parts of Carolina and Georgia, for the discovery of rare and useful productions of nature, chiefly in the vegetable kingdom; in April, 1773....." William Bartram gathered seeds, made drawings, and wrote lengthy descriptions of the native plants and animals of the Southeast and sent these to Dr. Fothergill. And he wasn't the first to send seeds to England, so I'm not surprised that there are some old trees there native to this country.
Do you have a picture you could share of the tulip tree you mentioned, also the beech?
Sherry

Thanks for that website bboy! Man...I'd kill to see a champion shagbark hickory. Those things mesmerize me. On a side note we do have an old growth stand of beeches at Umstead State Park in Raleigh, but you have to have a special permit to see them. I always wondered how big those were...those would look great in a pure stand as well, with the golden leaves and smooth bark!.

The Eastern Native Tree Society has very accurate records on heights, girths, ages, and distributions for many native trees species. We welcome new members - please take a look at the website (mentioned earlier in this post.)

As for tulip trees, they are one of the largest native broadleafed trees, with only sycamores and cottonwoods competing with them. They are HUGE - I've seen plenty of specimens over 10' around and 100' tall. They can also live a long time, but they do grow at a fast rate. The only drawback to them that I have seen is that in bad storms the entire tree can fail and become uprooted. This doesn't happen too often, but when it does happen - look out!

The original poster has already found another tree for that spot, and I agree that the area listed is probably too small for a full-size tulip tree. But still, keep them in mind since in a larger space, they are an astounding, huge, and long-lived tree.

The big tulip poplar on my property that came uprooted in the hurricane was in the wettest spot in the bottom of the hollow, where water sits from about late November-early March. It leaned a little in one direction caused by the little stream that feeds this pooled area. There are at least 4 other big ones in the same general area, not nearly as big in circumference as it was, but they're not in the pooled area. When hurricane winds are blowing, totally water logged soil is undoubtedly too soft to hold the big tree up.
I'd advise anybody planting one to do so in a spot that stays moist but not inundated, especially if you might ever get hurricane force winds.
Sherry