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Help with tree layout for privacy border

18 years ago

We live on a 1.2 acre lot. The lots behind us, to the south, are about to built on. We'd like to add trees to create some privacy. We'd like to use Thuja GG mixed with some other sort of tree. Don't really yet know what other tree to use. Leyland's are pretty much out because they don't last long here in the Central Valley of California(Merced). And if they do, they're mature height is taller than I'd like them to be.

The photo below is an areal of my property. The red line on the bottom marks the boundery of a county drainage easment which spans 15 feet wide. The county has said I can't plant inside the easement anything that would keep them from getting equipment in there, but it's OK if branches cross the boundery.

The green line is roughly the areas that I want to plant privacy screening.

I plant to create new flower beds for the trees covering about 6000 square feet. I don't want growing grass anywhere near the trees. The length will be covered with heavy duty woven fabric, a drip line, and pebble bark mulch.

I don't want to do a uniform single row of trees because if one dies, it won't look right. But even playing around with 2 staggered rows isn't really getting the effect I want. I'm convinced that I need some sort of uniform but randomized scattered effect but I need to it narrow, especially near the lower right corner of the house which is only about 40 feet from the easment line.

Here's the areal. There's a link below it for the full sized version:

{{gwi:16221}}

http://alana.smugmug.com/photos/261966090_hA9aK-X3.jpg

This photo taken from lower left corner of areal:

{{gwi:16222}}

This photo taken from lower right corner of areal:

{{gwi:16223}}

This photo taken from bottom center of areal pointing north east(up and to the left from the areal):

{{gwi:16224}}

Any ideas for trees and layout would be appreciated. In addition to mixed plantings with the GG, I plan to buy about 15 specimen Aptos Blue Redwoods. Lowes has a crazy low price on them right now.

Comments (12)

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    This looks like a pretty big and fancy place, maybe it would be worth it to you to get some local help - a garden consultant, landscape designer or even a landscape architect. If it were mine and I had the money (I definitely have the interest) the whole place would be gardened up, that long white wall in particular crying out for a mixed border in front of it. If you are not a passionate hobby gardener you may not be interested in more than lawns and hedging, for the most part but it could still turn out to have been money well spent to have someone come in and look the place over, develop some ideas.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    i would start by getting a wad of those flags i see in the second to last picture ....

    then i would stand in every window of the house and look out to what i want to hide from ...

    i would then think about planting a tree halfway between the house and the property line for each.. running out and sticking a flag in the ground .... a lot less running if you have another person outside to order around ...

    then i would take a 6 pack .. or a bottle of wine in CA .. box of wine in MI ...lol .. and a lawn chair or two .. and sit at the property lines and gaze back at the house.. and compare how it all looks .. it may be hard to imagine flags versus plantings.. but that is where the wine helps ...

    doing this will help you focus on which are the most important problems you face [or hide from] ... though you have supplied nice pix .. it is really hard, if one is not actually there ... these trees are the 'backbone' of your yard.. and all other plans for the future will have to work off them ... and .. if you have any dreams like your neighbors pool [from the ariel as you call it] .... you have to site your trees accordingly ....

    i hesitate to recommend anything specific for CA and your zone. just no experience ... but i will recommend making it a lifetime project .. and using diversity to the extreme ... i would never consider 15 of anything.. no matter how cheap they are .... as you note .. if you line them all out.. and one gets the plague.. there is a great chance that they will all get it.. so interchanging a multitude of plants greatly reduces a chance at a situation that the day after the trees accomplish all your dreams.. they all die ...

    some bird netting and annual vines can help break up that white wall real fast .. morning glories would work for me out here in MI ... while planting some long term shrubs or conifers .... after a few years.. you wont need the annuals as the others start to take off ...

    good luck

    ken

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    The pictures don't show it because the flags weren't there yet, but that's exactly what we've been doing. I've moved them all at least 3 times. We have 3 different colored flags. One for sprinklers, and 2 for different tree types. The mason line , an orange string marks the boundary of the drainage easement.

    I think what I'm hoping for as far as input is staggering and layout technique rather than proposals of exactly where to plant each and every tree.

    I've consulted with several landscape architects in the area and every one has suggested a straight evenly spaced row of trees(actually, they all are leaning towards hedges which I really don't want). When I started using terms like mixed plantings or staggered layouts to produce a multi layered look, I got blank stares. Every architect I've been able to find or consult with is really more about hardscapes.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Move down the structure, to garden designer or garden consultant. You will be paying lower fees for ideas that you may or may not be able to use, although hopefully you would have identified and paired off with one who can help you before ever getting to the point of talking about the property. Landscape architects, by definition, tend to talk about architectural effects - although there are many of them practicing, with varying ideas. You haven't talked to the right one for you. That you would have talked to several by now and gotten all the same ideas, that you don't like seems a bit strange, but without being on hand in person to view the interactions between you and them it's impossible to know where things went wrong and why.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Why not extend the white fence along the back property line?

    Yes, that much fence will be very expensive. It still seems worthwhile to do even if you can only afford to have it installed in stages as a pay as you go project.

    You could first pay to have the fence foundation dug and laid for the entire length expanse, Then every few months later, have a few fence sections built until finally the entire length is finished. Yes doing such a fence project paid as you go, could be very stressful for your budget, but so could planting enough trees to be an effective screen, and then having to keep them well watered for the first two to three years before even the drought hardy ones become established enough to survive, only periodic waterings or nothing more than nature's rainfall.

    The fence will also let you be more creative with the planting drifts you create with your landscaping. Having the fence in place will also keep you from making rush judgements, spending lots of money for trees and shrubs, that you later realize you wish you had not chosen. In other words. You will have the opportunity to plant quality trees and shrubs in purpose driven arrangements based on function and lifestyle rather than just a bunch of stuff which become boring over time.

    Then again, if hungry wild animals, small or large, live along the wild area behind your property, the fence should help keep them from so easily eating your expensive landscape while it is young, tender, and most attractive to such hungry critters.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Building a fence is not even a remote possibility. First, the county doesn't allow it on the inside easement line. Only on the actual property line separating the lots. There's already a fence there(owned by property owner in back). And even if we agreed to build a new one, the height is limited to 6 feet. There's an 8 foot drop from my lot to the lot behind me so a fence would do absolutely nothing. I need a lot more height.

    Secondly, it's not within my budget. Not even close. Not even a little bit at a time. Contractors around here charge WAY too much. Stucco walls in my county are going for roughly $300 linear foot and that's down from $400 before contractors started getting hungry. I can't afford to spend $120K on a fence. Again, when you look at the 200 foot section in the photo on my other neighbors boundery, you'll see his and other houses have perfect view into our yard. 6 feet is not enough.

    The budget for this project is $5K. That includes trees, equipment, irrigation, landscape fabric, and 3 cubic yards of pebble bark.

    I don't want to sound ungrateful or anything, but I'm asking for very specific advice about tree combinations and layout. I've already investigated all the other alternatives including building fences and talking with several landscape architects. I live in an area where contractors have no idea what they're doing and charge way too much.

    Early on, before I started doing everything myself, I've had to fire contractors off of jobs just as the got started because it was clear they weren't going to perform to my standards. The guy I hired, after interviewing 1/2 dozen, to lay the wood floors, was leaving millimeter gaps btween the boards. I fired him, bought a miter saw and did the whole thing myself. Gap free, with the specified clearances, etc.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    So, the question is, what is the optimal placement arrangement?

    The previous consultation recommended: X X X X X X X X X X

    But you'd like someone to give a better recommendation, like:
    X___X_______X_____X___X_____X
    X____X___X____X_______X

    And I just made that pattern up, by the way, it is not a recommendation.

    And you are using primarily Thuja Green Giant, but would like some recommendation of another evergreen to mix in with it?

    Just to summarize, those are the two questions?

    One comment based on the first picture: your back neighbor has several groups of trees (some type of Oak?). Can we assume that those give good privacy and you don't have to place anything on your side right now for those sections? If so, I think that would help to give it more of a natural look to take advantage of that circumstance.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    My neighbor is cutting every one of those trees down to build another house. So no, they won't provide any privacy.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Ok, well you got some good advice on the Design forum about planting in drifts. Perhaps that will give you what you need.

    I don't really know what trees would do well in the Merced area, I hope some one else can provide some plant recommendations. You could visit the California Native Plant Society website for some ideas on native plants to mix in. Looks like your local chapter is the North San Joaquin Valley one.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Thuja plicata Green Giants are beautiful trees, but they are more expensive now than they were before they were so easy to find. If you want a fast privacy situation created with them, remember that it will take about 3 three years before one foot tall trees you plant will reach 6 feet high. I know that seems like slow growth for these trees, but you need to take into account the factor of their first 2 years after planting as a needed establishment time. If your soil back there is slow draining clay, or a different soil stays wet for longer periods of time, due to if the area is at the lower end of a water runoff slope, or not; then you will need to be aware that the root system on these trees suffocate easily if the soil they are planted in does not drain at least moderately well.

    Then again the root system of these trees while they are trying to become established also suffers and the tree cannot support its folliage needs, if it does not receive the correct amount of rain or is not watered in the appropriate manner for its soil to remain well drained but still moist.

    In slow draining clay soils it can take up to 4 years after being planted for them to stop demanding such perfect soil moisture and drainage ratios.

    On the other hand, if your soil is heavy sand and drains too much than a 1 foot GG, if not watered daily and fertilized often enough, will grow only half the size than the same tree planted in better soil which retains moistness but still drains well.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Still,

    If a red string was stretched from each of the backyard's sideyard fences, the line created would be on the property line where you explained is legal for you to install a fence, and that will be at a higher elevation than at the bottom of the 15 feet wide county drainage easement.

    At this property line above the drainage easement the 6 foot tall fence would still be elevated high enough to create an effectual benefit.

    Then specific areas along that fence line which need taller privacy could be planted with landscaping designed to accomadate that need.

    Yes such a postioned fence would cut into what currently seems to be your backyard's depth while such a boundry just above the easement is not installed.

    I also realize the expense of installing such a fence seems huge at the onset. Still, If done properly it should prove to be a valued asset that nearly pays for it's self in adding to your property value. That is as long as you work in well designed drifts of planting beds all along the fence to increase purposeful points of interest.

    In the first photo you posted above, such efforts can be seen where your neighbor has tried to landscape and create the same kind of affect.

    If you stop and realize how much you appreciate the fence between your property and that of your neighbor's, it should help you to visualize the added value a back boundry fence will offer you, once houses are built on the property behind yours.

    You installing such a fence now should help keep the people who build houses behind you from walling away the easement from them and causing you to be solely responsible for maintaining that drainage easement area.

    Wouldn't it be more enjoyable to spend your time and money landscaping and gardening your own large property plot, without having the full time issue of being the sole person who has to, in addition to caring for your property, also be the sole person who maintains the drainage easment behind your back yard.

    If need be, you could even design the back fence to have an access gate where you could still enter the drainage easement area and mow the grass that either your or your builder had sodded to prevent errosion issues on your side of the down slope of this county drainage easement.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    If you do not want to install a stucco fence, if city code allows intall a short electric fence along the back property line to discourage wild animals from invading and eating your landscaping.

    Then Plant two rows of Thuja Plicata Green Giants in a staggered pattern for the entire length of your house.

    Plant all the trees on 10 foot centers, and be sure to dig the planting holes for the back row of trees at least 6 feet away from the easement. Also, space the center holes for the front row of trees at least 10 feet infront of the back row.

    X,,,X,,,X,,,X,,,X...X...X...X...X...X...X
    ...X...X,,,X...X...X...X...X...X...X...X
    county drainage easment, county drainage easement

    As you can see from the planting example created by the rows of Xs above, it will take 21 trees planted on 10 feet centers to cover each 100 linear feet of your back boundry that you want to plant with Thuja Plicata Green Giants.

    If you want to plant them for nearly the length of your home and and if that linear length is more than 200 feet, then you will need to plant more than 42 of these trees. If you wanted to plant the entire 400 yard linear boundry line than you will need to plant 84 of these trees. If you can purchase 84 one gallon sized potted trees, purchasing that many should be much easier on your budget.

    For each of these one gallon size trees you choose to purchase just predig holes 3 feet wide in diameter by 10 inches to 1 foot deep.

    Also pre install a drip watering system with outlets, which once the trees are planted, can be positioned to water each tree individually.

    A high graded quality one gallon Thuja Plicata Green Giant tree should be anywhere from 12 to 18 inches tall and have a well filled in pyramid shape.

    If the winters are mild in your part of California, then one gallon trees that are watered correctly and given slow release non burning fertilizer at the beginning of each growing season, should be expected to acclimate fairly quickly and grow at least 6 to 12 inches during the first year after you plant them. The next year if you have been good to keep them watered properly, and fertized at the approprate times, they should grow at least an addtional 3 feet. By the end of the 3rd year if you have still kept them watered at the right amounts, and fertilized appropriately, then they should have grown an additional 5 feet. That means your trees by the end of the 3rd year, could at the very least have grown to be about 11 feet tall. By that time, it is possible that they could have spread enough, if you planted two staggered rows to almost be giving you a solid wall affect for at least the 4 feet up the trees' height. Every year there after they should grow at about 5 feet, and as long as you keep them fertilized properly their skinny new top growth should keep filling out at a fairly nice pace.

    Other wise if the trees are not fertilized at the beginning of their growing season, but if they get the right amount of soil moisture, they will grow taller, but the new growth will look thin and sparce, while taking over six months or more to ever fill out with a well balanced branching pattern. If your trees begin to take on such an appearance, by all means resist the temptation to snip of that thin up shoot of growth. Instead simply begin feeding and watering the tree properlly and it will respond by producing a nice amount of branches on that upshoot of new growth and also, follow that with more new height growth.

    With these trees, always remember that any branch you cut off at the trunk will not grow back, so if for any reason the lower branches become brown due to the tree not getting enough water, or the tree's roots suffocating from too much water, do not cut those branches off to the trunk. So do not purchase trees which have a lot of lower trunk showing.

    Also if after plantings the trees encounter too dry of soil and begin to brown. Do not prune away the brown branches. Instead you can remove the dead needles if you would like, and simply begin making certain the tree gets adequate moisture. Then be patient and if you have begun the better care paractices in time, you can be assured the tree will grow new green needles on those bare dead looking branches you left on the tree.

    If the tree's lower branches begin to die due to soggy soil conditions which suffocate the tree's root system, you should wait to see if these dead looking branches will recover, with proper care of the tree, but in that situation there is not such a high chance these will respond as well as desired.

    If you plant a wall of these trees, than to prevent them looking boring consider planting a variety of shorter and not to broad of spreading ornamentsl shrubs planted and spaced appropriately infront and lined up with the middle of the front row of tree's spacing. At the feet of the ornamental shrubs you could install a border planting of continuously flowering, or very decorative leafed one to two feet tall potential growing plants or shrubs.