Monsieur le Capitaine Louis Frere is unknown to me.

Alfred Colomb has arching canes, and often need a bit of support if not pruned enough in spring (and you really never prune them much shorter than two feet). It is a very good shrub, and can get rather tall if let to grow as it wants and doesn't get to set back by winter.

I have Charles Lefebvre, which is very much in the same category as Alfred Colomb and General Jacqeminot, but growth is more upright, and doesn't needs support if held around 3-4 feet (if it can get to that size in your area; I guess it will). Large flowers, fine fragrance and dependable rebloom. Both Alfred Colomb and Charles Lefebvre are usually very shapely plants, and repeats dependably every year.

Some of the red hybrid perpetuals are very close to true red in some stages, but tend to have more blue in them than the modern red Hybrid Teas. If HT will survive in your area Barkarole has rather good fragrance, and true red. Ingrid Bergman are pretty easy to grow, Black Baccara and others. I've never really found a replacement for the red hybrid perpetuals, or any "true" red hardy rose with very good fragrance.

Best of luck with your roses

Gruss an Teplitz is my best red by far among my few reds. It does freeze a bit in some winters but it bounces back and is often the last rose of summer here. I never cover it in winter in my Swedish zone 5b.

cziga - congratulations on your new find! If you don't know about HelpMeFind.com, do go there, it does have some info on Louis.

As for Alfred, I'm afraid that I beat you to the punch! Will be picking him up on Sunday.

Olympiad has always been my favorite red and it survives well on its own roots here in Kansas; one of the hardier classic hybrid teas grown locally. "Superhero" is a nice red shrub rose sold own root. And I've only seen a few blooms so far, but I think I really like the Buck rose 'Hi Neighbor'

Here is a link that might be useful: Garden Musings blog

Thank you for all the suggestions so far :)

HTs struggle here over the winter and most need a lot of care and protection to have a decent bush and bloom the next summer ... and I just don't do that :) I protect Celine Forestier only, and even then not too much. She's learned to be a hardy ole gal in my garden!!

The only red rose I have so far is a floribunda "Lili Marlene" who struggles with the cold winters too ... so I'm really looking for more of an Antique-feeling rose to add.

Gruss an Teplitz looks like a nice one. I don't have any single or semi-double flowers yet ... and it sounds like a true red. Cold tolerance might be an issue though, although I wonder if Canada is any colder than Sweden in the winters :) Online sources say it is bred for cold hardiness but then list it as zones 6 and above? It is a smaller-sized rose, right?

Charles Lefebvre looks like a nice one too, although photos online seem more pinkish than red. I have the David Austin Tess of the D'Urbevilles, and it becomes more of a pink-red than an actual red ... which is what I'm trying to stay away from. I guess Alfred Colomb and Charles lefebvre are very similar in a lot of ways. Both reasonably thornless, you said Charles was the more upright of the two. Any other major differences?

So is there no one who grows Monsieur le Capitaine Louis Frere? I looked on HelpMeFind but was hoping someone here grew it, and could give me their own experiences. When they say "very lax, sprawling grower" ... does that mean canes flopping onto the ground? Or bending over? Is there anything I can do (or should do) to counter-act this?

And any other of your favourite OGR reds ... doesn't have to be Hybrid Perpetuals (lol) although most seem to be. Or even David Austins that are a nice true red?

Thank you!!

Hi cziga,

I saw your Monsieur le Capitaine Louis Frere at Eurodesert when I was there on May 7 and 8 looking at roses to buy. I went through the hybrid perpetual beds and photographed every one he then had there, including yours. I was trying to educate myself on blooms and growth habits. So I did see your plant and do remember what it looked like. Arching yes, but not to the ground. More upright arching, and more mannerly. There were some spreading wide, and arching to the ground types, but I didn't see your rose behaving like that. I also noted your plant had very healthy looking foliage.

It was pretty windy that day, and I remember I had to grab the cane of MlCLF that had a bloom opening up so that the cane would hold still for me to take the picture. I'll go through my pics and find it and post here.

Btw, I went in mind to buy some red hybrid perpetuals. I took a shopping list--which managed to grow once I saw how many wonderful plants were available. I talked to Cliff and looked in his garden and wow was it hard to choose! I bought Francois Premier, Henry Nevard, Comtesse O'Gorman, and Abbe Bramerel in red, and then others in pink and one in white. Francois Premier was covered in buds, but I cut them all off in preparation to dig him up and take him home. He's just getting buds on him now in my garden. Henry Nevard was also covered in buds, which I also cut off for transplanting. He's got his first bloom in my garden. Beautiful cabbagy flower loaded with fragrance, very much to my taste. Stout and upright of growth (Francois Premier is also an upright grower but not quite as hefty). Both these two were medium in height. Abbe Bramerel was a shorter grower and has since bloomed for me with lovely red/purple flowers. Moderate fragrance. The one red I purchased blooming in Cliff's garden was Comtesse O'Gorman, and I simply couldn't resist those exquisite red, RED blooms. They looked like peonies and were very, very fragrant. More compact of growth, bushy, yet graceful habit. Seemed to want to spread some, but still mannerly. Cutting her back didn't put her off blooming as she has continued in my garden. One of the prettiest red roses I have ever seen and now on my short list of all time favorites.

Old red hands Down Hugh Dickson
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Followed by Louis van Houtte

Louis Philippe ( or Cramoisi Sup. whichever it is). I have successfully rooted so many and they take so much neglect and bloom like crazy with very little, if any, disease. Love them. :)

Red is my favorite. I do NO winter protection. I spray once/month. For me it has to be a true red (no blues or almost pink). The exception is the Squier.

Tarviata � classified as a HT but really more like a shrub. I have 3, the original graphed and 2 rooted cuttings. They all do well, no winter kill, is a good repeat bloomer. I let mine get huge; maybe it can be trimmed smaller. I have one under an oak, it stays smaller but otherwise does well.

Ingrid Bergman usually does well for me.

Cadenza � this is its first full season. It�s been blooming for a month now.

The Squire performed well for about 8 yrs but has been in decline lately. Starts red ages to a wine color.

Europeana is small. It�s only drawback for me is it has to be sprayed.

Olympiad is new, but so far I like it.

Field of Woods � a climber in its 3rd year is only 4� tall but performs well.

Louis XIV is a small bush.

Others still being evaluated. This is their first full season but looks promising:
Dame De Coer
Joseph Lamb

Mr. Lincoln used to do well for me but since we moved to our new house I can�t get it to grow.
I tried the Dark Lady. Looks too pink or magenta to me. It�s gone.

I wouldn't call Gruss an Teplitz semi-double, it has 30 petals or more, but the bloom form is somewhat loose. I love its new foliage, very red.

My Monsieur le Capitaine is not very old yet but so far has very good blackspot resistance. It repeats. Mine is not big yet but I am happy with it. Very pretty blooms, getting better all the time. Another red I like is Gloire de Chedane Guinnoisseau. It is usually bs resistant, is growing well, repeats and has huge blooms, maybe a little on the very dark pink side. I like Louis XIV for quick repeat, color and fragrance. Oklahoma is the red rose I like best I think. Cl Etoile de Holland has huge fragrant blooms. Dublin Bay makes a great plant. Fields of the Wood would be my favorite red climber with a little more fragrance , but it does have some. I like Gruss an Tepliz for repeat and fragrance. Mine is a little bs prone. Love that picture of Hugh Dickson!

I like reds, but I'm limited what I can grow no-spray here. Mme Victor Verdier and Souvenir du Dr. Jamain are my favorite surviving red Hybrid Perpetuals. For Austins, I love William Shakespeare 2000 and Munstead Woods.

For climbers, I grow Fields of the Woods and am very impressed with it, and new this year is Quadra which looks very healthy.

I never liked red roses much until this year when I found a early H.T. rose on my property: "Crimson Glory" and the fragrance knocked my socks off, it is more deeply scented than Etoille de Hollande and any other red rose I've ever smelled.
I tried growing a couple red H.P.s but they rusted to death, and I'd love to try another one if it were healthy. I don't spray.
that photo of Hugh Dickson is what I'm looking for in style of bloom, its lovely.

Lux.

Eutin is a good bright red with nice medium-sized double flowers appearing abundantly in large clusters. Easy to grow in a no-spray yard, it has some shade tolerance too. It's not thornless, but the thorns aren't out near the blooms. And the flowers last better than average in a vase.

Best wishes,
Mary

Louis Phillipe and other chinas won't do well in zone 5 unless you pot them up and overwinter them in a sheltered spot. I did that when I lived in WI.

I'm so sorry I disappeared for a while, I wasn't able to get onto GW properly for quite a while there. I was reading all the responses in my email though and I really appreciate all the suggestions ...

Tessiess - Thank you so much for your first hand report. I'm glad to hear it was upright and arching but mannerly!! Exactly what I wanted :) It is planted now and will take a while to start growing but it arrived very healthy so I hope it will grow itself back into a very similar type shrub!

Labrea - Hugh Dickson looks beautiful and he's on my list to really look into! Thank you ...

Erasmus - Thank you for your personal experience with this rose ... you are more south than I am, but I'm glad to hear about the disease resistance and repeating and I hope it will be the same this far north ...

Lori Elf - I actually have Souv Du Dr Jamain, and I forgot to mention that one earlier. I have it in part-shade because I read that the blooms needed a bit of shade to do their best, and it climbs over a small arbor, so I tend to forget to mention it as it is in a different garden area ... but I love this rose. The smell and colour of the blooms (which only bloomed for the first time this summer) are spectacular!

You've all given me so many suggestions for reds to look into this summer and I really appreciate it! Thank you so much, and especially for the personal experiences with Monsieur le Capitaine Louis Frere. I was having trouble finding much info on what to expect from this new rose and I do appreciate it :)

This may be more purple than you're looking for, nor do I know how it would do in your climate, but the modern shrub 'Astrid Grafin von Hardenberg' has been handsome, healthy, and fragrant in my garden in trying conditions. It's German bred and may be hardy enough for you, though I can't guarantee it. In my garden it's dark old-style (purplish) red. It looks rather like a Hybrid Perpetual in habit, with upright, stoutly branching growth; is reblooming, fragrant, and doesn't get fungal disease, though disease isn't generally a big problem here. I tend to be skeptical of modern varieties--my husband bought this one for me--but have been pleased and impressed with this rose.

I am looking for a good fragrant red rose for cut flower which is hardy for zone 5a. We have tons of rain in the spring/fall, hot summer, and Chicago winter.

I have William Shakespeare 2000 and love the fragrance - would like something more red, rather than purplish. I don't know which Austin has the best fragrance: the Squire, the Prince, Prospero, Falstaff, Tess the D', or L.D. Braithwaite? I would like to consider a Floribunda or HT Red rose, if they can survive Chicago winter.

Many thanks to all you gardeners.

My favorite red rose is ROUGE ROYALE, a 2001 Hybrid Tea that is part of the Romantica series. If you like cut flowers it is impossible to beat: rich ruby red color (velvety on the top of the petal with a satiny reverse on the underside), thick petal substance, perfect flower formation (quartered), out of this world fragrance, loooooooong & strong stems, phenomenal vase life, and good remontancy (repeat bloom). The shrub ain't bad either: medium height, decent vigor, leathery foliage, and the growth habit is less upright than the typical Hybrid Tea so you get a nice busy plant. The only faults are a propensity for black spot and a tendency for the blooms to rot if a lot of water gets trapped in the deeply cupped buds. The color can also fade in scorching sun. The solution is to cut the wondrous ruby red blooms while young for the vase.

Among the red Hybrid Perpetuals I've had my eye on ECLAIR for years. It is said to have the richest, most true red color in the entire class. The flower form is also quartered (my favorite flower form). The only reason I haven't bought it is because another rosarian told me the repeat bloom is unreliable. One day I still want to give it a try.

CRAMOISI SUPERIEUR/LOUIS PHILIPPE deserves all the praise heaped on it. The one I got from COUNTRYSIDE ROSES and growing in my mother's zone 7b garden is not only very fragrant but has the most lovely petite globular flowers. Unlike a lot of reds the color improves as it is exposed to intense summer sun. It "suntans" from cerise to bright red. The foliage is very disease resistant. The China growth habit is weird but has its own charm once you get used to it. A perfect choice for an herb garden or potager.

WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE 2000 is the best crimson English Rose. Mine (grafted) is always in bloom with a lovely spreading growth habit that reminds me of the best Gallicas. He fits perfectly into a mixed flower border. The gorgeous blooms are sheer perfection in form rivaling the classic Gallica CHARLSES DE MILLS. Lovely fragrance too. Needs afternoon shade to preserve the candy apple red color.

Two other reds high up on my list of favorites include MISTER LINCOLN (my late father's favorite rose) and TRADESCANT. I also one day want to try the climber ORFEO.

Best wishes,

Patrick

>I'm looking for a nice true red rose

Eutin is true red and terribly easy to grow. It's supposed to be hardy to Zone 4b. It also shows exceptionally good shade tolerance. No noticeable fragrance, but lots of bright blooms that you can spot from a mile away. Average thorniness, though the thorns don't appear anywhere close to the blooms so they don't necessarily have to bother you. The blooms terminate canes rather far from the leaves, so they also invite you to cut them. Nice foliage that in the South is evergreen and totally cane hardy.

Best wishes,
Mary

Here is a link that might be useful: Help Me Find Eutin information