Of course you understand the Dr. Jekyll post was all in fun.

Yep, sure do. Parts are on order, I'll post back here again with results when I get it back together and running. Right now it's looking pretty sad with it's rear-end sitting low on the garage floor and the grille and headlights pointing up at the ceiling!

I wouldn't glue it, if there was a way to drill a hole through the shaft and pulley - say if the pulley had a longer bore than the pulley wheel itself, so you can get a drill onto it. Drill and put in a pin.... once you JB the wheel it ain't ever coming off...

Update: I mentioned before that I sent an email to Tuff Torq asking them if it was OK to put synthetic oil in the tranny if I changed it. I also mentioned that I might have to change out the input shaft and asked if this required a complete tear-down to accomplish. The next day I received a nice reply from one of their techs telling me that not only was it OK to use synthetic oil in the tranny (they use 5w50), but also that changing out the input shaft was a fairly simple job that only requires popping off the oil seal, removing a c-clip and the lifting out the shaft! They will also sell me the replacement shaft for around $25.00 which includes the near bearing and oil seal as well. (They do not make the pulley and collars that go on the tranny). I was pretty happy to read that email to say the least! (Deere does not offer the shaft as a separate replacement part). I'll be ordering the shaft from Tuff Torq and when all the parts are in and replaced I report back on how it went. They also supply the 5w50 synthetic oil as a replacement part if you can't find it locally. The tech mentioned that Tuff Torq now fills several of their larger transaxles that experience heavy loading with this SAE 5w50 synthetic motor oil.

Well now, this is a happier turn of events. I don't guess I need to say "hold off with the JD Weld", do I? Good save.

I am a new member and joined because I had exactly the same transmission thing happen to me yesterday. Please continue to tell us how to repair this problem as I to dont want to buy a new tranny either. I've used my S1642 for 6 very hard years and it has preformed great, I would like to keep it going for another six years.

I am also a new member. I have a John Deere LT166 with this transmission. IT doesn't make the noise the poster mentioned above but it does have a problem. It moves very slow. On level ground it moves slow but goes but on an incline of any size it just sits there. I've changed the tension pully and the drive belt (didn't fix it). Does anybody have suggestions?

Repair follow-up:
I installed the new input shaft, bearing and seal I purchased from Tuff Torq and the new pulley and splined spacers from John Deere.

Result: tranny as good as new!

The screeching/howling sound is gone and it's moving in both directions with no problems. I also changed the oil and filter while it was apart and re-filled with synthetic 5w50 (Castrol Syntec) as recommended by Tuff Torq. The tranny feels smoother and seems quieter too and felt much cooler when I checked the case after I finished mowing. Total cost was about $60 not including the oil: $20 for the pulley, spacers and snap rings from John Deere, $25 for the new input shaft and the remainder for the new filter and a new trans vent valve assy. ( A new transmission is $525 from John Deere so to me, this was worth a try even if it did fix the problem.)

So there you go. If you start having these symptoms, pull the drive belt and check that pulley or just remove the transmission. It's an easy job. After removing the wheels it's only six bolts, the brake linkage (cotter pin) and the shift rod linkage. Thanks to all who contributed to help me and good luck to others.

Great job!!!

Thanks for letting us know the outcome.

-Deerslayer

Williston, yes, Great Job. As I mentioned eairler, I have the exact same problem but I am not quite as mechanically inclined as yourself. Could you post more detail about the parts required, where you got them, & did you have a exploded diagram of the tranny that could show me where in the world all of the dohickies go. You seem to be my only hope as the John Deere people do not have much respect for our Scotts model and do not want to repair the tranny. Thanks.

Greg, I'm still waiting as well. I really want to fix this problem myself.

If you re-read all the posts and sift through the info you should find the info you are looking for, including the parts I replaced and how to remove the transmission. I ordered the new pulley, spacers and snap rings from my local John Deere dealer using the on-line catalog to get the parts numbers (there are excellent diagrams of the tranny on there). I called Tuff Torq with the model and serial number from the sticker on the transmission and ordered the new input shaft and other misc parts from them. (The input shaft is not available from Deere)

I have finally fixed my tranny. I found a John Deere service person who is really sharp & helpful. He said to replace the drive pulley which sits on top of the cooling fan above the tranny. He said JD made the metal softer in the drive pulley than the shaft so that when one went out all you had to do was replace the external drive pulley and not have to tear the tranny apart. I bought the part from JD for 13 dollars. I got to the top of the tranny by unbolting the six bolts that mate the tranny to the frame and dropped the tranny. Unbolt your brake rod so that your brake rod does not bend like mine did, minor repair. It now runs like it used to. Good luck to all on your repairs.

That is great news. In my case, the splines on the tranny input shaft were also badly worn and there was not enough left to hold the new pulley nice and tight and thus I needed to also replace the shaft. This was a very easy job with the tranny out and I also was able to change the oil and re-fill with synthetic. Thanks for posting back with your repair update.

Great info on this page. I had the same problem with a Scott 2046. JD dealer wanted almost $600.00 for a new trans. and then labor to install. My son-in-law who is much more mechanically inclined than I, replaced the input shaft (you can buy it from Tuff-Torq as a kit) plus a new pulley, fan and spacers from JD and all is well again. While we had the trans. tore down we replaced the two filters and air vent also. Here is a link to the Tuff-Torq site: http://www.tufftorqservices.com/cgi-bin/tts.storefront . You will need to copy and paste. Total parts were less than $100.00. I really appreciate the great info Williston.

I went to the Tufftorq web site listed in the above post and tried to register so that I might order parts. I filled out the form, but it keeps coming back with the statement "This set of personal data does not sufficiently guarantee your security" at the top of the form. Does anyone know why? Charles Ranheim

I found my registration problem. Quite a while ago, when Tufftorq first started their online web site, I registered with an ID and password, even though there was not much I could do on the site. I forgot about this (senior moment). I was trying to register with the same ID when I got the error message I did not understand. Once I changed my ID, it worked. If only the error message said the ID I was trying to use was already in use, it would not have been a problem at all. I am not trying to blame them for my mistake, but it would have helped if the message was more informative as to what was wrong. Charles Ranheim

I have a scotts 2046 with a tuff torque tranny problem. Its posted on garden tractor recommendation. Please help!!!

HELP !!
Someone please tell me right away - how much oil should there be in a K51 TuffTorq box? Is there some reference that I can use as a 'level' marker?

I have a Scotts 2046 (JOHN DEERE) with a Tuff-Torq tranny. It was making a growling noise as if the belt was slipping. The belt was fine. Problem got worse till one day it wouldn't move. Dissassembled the tranny and could see nothing wrong. Filled with fresh oil and re-installed. Worked good as new. I believe the problem was that grass had built up on top of the tranny case behind the lever that is moved in and out to disengage tranny. This prevented it from engaging. Check this first if you have a problem. You can do a search for Tuff-Torq on the web and call their tech services for oil capacity. Parts are available for these transmissions even though John Deere says they are not.

I have the same K51 symptoms with my Scotts S2046. My problem is removing the rear wheels. Removed the e-clip and washer. Shaft appears straight with keyway. I put a wheel puller on it with applied a lot of torque and wheels don't budge. Sprayed with WD and let sit overnight. Anybody else have this problem.

Norml: first off: throw the WD 40 away unless you're thinking of using it for the arthritis in your knuckles. That's about all it is good for. For a rust penetrant, try PB Blaster, Sea Foam Deep Creep, Kroil, and now CRC has a freeze penetrant I've used that I think works very well.

You may have to heat the area up some with a decent torch. Be careful if you choose to do so.

Can I ask some dumb questions? I bought a JD LT166 at an auction and it needed some work. Main thing I noticed is that the right rear axle would pull right out. So basically it wouldn't move because the axle was not completely in. Long story short, after pulling the tranny and with the help of this forum I found that the thrust washer had broke and basically allowed the "ring 17" to fall out, therefore there was nothing to hold the axle in. I have ordered the parts and hopefully that is all that is wrong with it. Now for my dumb question. I do not see any way to put oil in it once I get it fixed other than pour it in before putting the lower case back on. Is this the only way? Also, to me it looks like 2 different chambers between where the "transmission" is and where the axles and "rear end" is. Am I missing where this flows back and forth or do you need to put oil in both chambers and how much in each? Again I apologize if these questions seem real simple or real apparent, but for some reason I am not seeing the answers. Thanks

I bought a SABRE 15.538 Hydro, supposedly built by John Deere, from Sears in 1997. It has served me well until last summer when the K-51 transaxle input pulley lost it's teeth. There was no strange noise warning prior to the incident, therefore some splines are now missing from the shaft. John Deere wants over $600 and Sears wants over $900 for a new transaxle which is totally out of the question. The tractor is in like new condition except for this failure and I want to keep it.
Thank GOD and Al Gore(LOL)for the internet and this website where I found an affordable solution.

Thank to all for the great info on this forum. I'm a newbie, so be gentle...
I've also got a Scotts 2046, going on around 10 years old, with the same symptoms as those noted above (after warming up, won't go uphill, etc).
I changed the ground drive belt, hoping that was it was just starting to slip when heating up, but alas, it's the tranny. I'm clearly not as mechanically knowledgable as many of those on the forum, and haven't dropped the transaxle to inspect it just yet (grass is growning too fast right now, mowing 20 minutes at a clip!). I did call my usual repair shop to ask about the repair, and they essentially said the tranny's shot, given the age of the tractor, and based on the tractor's age, not worth fixing. I'm still willing to make a final go at it, though, but need to keep it cheap, considering that my PowerFlow bagger unit is also starting to fall apart (held together by sheet metal patches). If this doesn't work, it looks like I'll be posting on the "New Tractor Recommendations" list...
I looked on the TuffTorq Website and checked the diagram for my unit ( http://www.tufftorqservices.com/cgi-bin/tts.storefront ). Can anybody advise if the part that's typically wearing out is #29, the motor drive shaft? Is this the same part as the input shaft? I don't see that listed as part of a repair kit, as some have mentioned they purchased. The K51A Repair Kit sounds like overkill, given what I've read here. Also, has anyone got the John Deere Part number for the drive pulley, in case I need to order one of those, too?
Thanks for any insights anyone can provide.

As a followup to my previous post, I decided to bite the bullet and drop the transaxle to get a better look at what's going on. The input shaft pulley teeth don't look terribly worn - but there's quite a bit of play - measuring at the plastic outer fan blade, I can rotate the pulley freely up to 5/16" before the shaft engages. On the other hand, it's never made any noise, and there doesn't appear to be any sign of metal on metal gear slippage. Can anyone tell me if this amount of play is normal or if I should replace the pulley anyway? Also, I can turn the pulley & shaft by hand - there's resistance, but not an extreme amount. I have no clue how much resistance is considered normal, and some here have mentioned that there should be a great deal of resistance. Can anyone advise?
Finally (and forgive me for THIS ignorant question - I assume the large black seal is where I drain / refill with oil - not the small black cap. Is that correct?
Thanks to any and all who can help me.

When I had the problem, the fan and pulley assembly would actually spin fine while the tractor was running in neutral, making it seem like nothing was wrong. It was only when you moved the lever to go forward that the pulley would slip on the shaft, the screeching would occur and the tractor would stop moving. Also, with the rear wheels off the ground (no load) they would move normally. With the transmission out, I couldn't force the pulley to slip with just my hand, but there was a lot of play between the shaft and the pulley and the splines on the shaft were very worn. The small black cap is the transmission vent. The large one is removed to drain and re-fill the transmission.

Thanks, Williston. I actually never checked the operation of the pulley assembly with the tactor wheels up off the ground. I really should've checked that, as well as what was (and wasn't) spinning when trying to move the tractor in forward or reverse once it was heated up. Too late now...

It would seem to me that if the pulley were actually slipping on the shaft, that there would be quite a bit of noise, and evidence of metal-on-metal scraping, which I don't see (and didn't hear). I think I may try to replace the pulley anyway, and possibly install the pump shaft kit, which is about $25 on the TuffTorq website. I'm not sure if I can do that without opening up the unit, though, as I don't see how the shaft is held into the unit. Apparently, TuffTorq doesn't supply any directions for the install, so I'd be working solely from the diagram.

I'm not sure how much I want to spend on the repair attempt. At this point, I think I'd be happy just getting one more season out of the tractor. I've been advised by the repair shop that they've occasionally installed the $324 repair kits only to find that the transmissions still didn't operate properly.
Thanks for the info on the drain/fill - TuffTorq sent me a diagram that helped on that front.

As an aside, I started researching new tractors...I was shocked to see that "experts" agree that 250 hours of mowing time is the average life expectancy of a tractor! That's practically a "disposable". I must have at least 750+ hours on mine. If 250 is really the life expectancy of the typical lawn tractor, I may really need to think about whether it's worth buying a better quality tractor, or better to buy relatively cheap tractors that I could just sell after using them for a couple of years (like leasing a car) when the repairs would likely be negligable.

Thanks again for the help - greatly appreciated.

From your decription, it doesn't sound like the worn shaft/spline problem. When I got the tranny out of mine, the wear and slop was very obvious. The fan, pulley and shaft are all held in place by simple "C" clips. When the one for the shaft is removed, you can pull it right out of the case with a little effort. You might want to just try changing the oil first to see if that fixes the problem since R&R of the unit is so simple.

test

I found a short cut for pully removal. Take out torque bracket bolts & remove front tranny bolts. Then loosen rear tranny bolts almost all the way and fish pully & fan out of hole created by removing battery & black plate.

I also used JB weld. My shaft looked worn. Will let ya'll know how it holds up. Used mower for an hour so far it's good!

ok- folks. i found this post and had already fought thru the fix. my question. early on I took the rubber cover off of the blow off / relief valve. how do i get that blow off to come up so i can get the rubber cover back on. there is a groove in the rubber cover that accepts the disc perfectly. or do i just fly without????-dave in ohio

I can't seem to find a drive pulley for my tuff torq hydo. Pulley splines are bad, drive shaft is good. Pulley is 3" dia. shaft is .4" Please help. Will have to by some sheep otherwise. Thanks

I recently had a chance to get a Scotts 1642 from a friend. It has the exact problems discussed in this forum. I have the transaxle out, shaft splines worn,pulley splines worn. I have worked on a tuff torq 61 in a toro 267h. I would like the part numbers for tuff torq and John Deere ,would save me some time. Have enjoyed reading these postings. Just a old man who loves to fix things.

I had a stripped drivepulley on a Tuf-torque tranny. Somebody said to go to John Deere to get parts, so i went there. The man didn't/couldn't find anything in the parts book, but he went out back to the junk parts bin and found the pulley i needed and two plastic fans with splined centers! I put it all together and it works well. The pulley was a wee bit smaller than the original, but it works ok! I only used one fan! Somebody here would inevitably ask if i had installed both fans! ;0)

Great Information!

I also had a similar problem with the worn K51 transmission pulley and in the process wearing out the transmission shaft.

The symptom was a loud squeal/chirp like sound coming from the top of the transmission. Adding some oil to the top of the pulley would temporarily relief the symptom.

Finally loosened up the drive belt and noticed that the pulley is moving on the transmission shaft. Lots of side-to-side movement noticed.

Got a new pulley, but it did not fit tightly as expected as the shaft was also warn at this point. Had to use "JB Weld" to hold everything together. No problem using the JB Weld - seems to have done the trick.

I could have replaced the transmission shaft that some have purchased directly form Tuff Torq for $25. Just need to register on the Tuff Torq web and order the correct part. According to the technician at Tuff Torq the shaft can be removed from the top (just remove the seal and the clip under the seal and it should pull out - no need to disassemble the transmission. However, I had no time for that as the grass was growing BIG, therefore JB weld was used!

Once the transmission was removed from the tractor. Drained overnight all the oil through the air vent (mistake #1 - should have drained through the fill cap). Also tried to fill the transmission with oil through the air vent - big mistake. Only got 1.25l in, should have been able to put in 2.25l. Note - you can't fill the unit with oil through the air vent. You need to remove the fill cap and the spring and the round mesh like insert under the fill cap (I think its used for backpressure to the pump). Then the unit will fill with 2.25l of oil. I used Castrol synthetic 5W50 oil recommended by Toff Torq.

How this helps someone.

Cheers

I also had drive pulley problems The spline on the drive shaft and the drive pulley had been worn so that replacing the pulley wouldn't be a permanent fix When cheking on a replacement transaxle and hearing the cost I decided to attempt a fix. I pulled the transaxle and took my hand grinder to cut a key slot in the drive shaft and did the same to the pulley.I didn't use regular key but instead used a 3/8 bolt that was sized for a snug fitand used lock tite around the bolt.the bolt has to be grinded so it doesn't extend above the pulley shaft for clearance reason.That was over three years ago and still running fine

same problem, pulley & shaft both worn out
ordered pulley form john deere & shaft kit (pump bearing kit
item # 10 from tuff torq web site , a little problem finding diagram for k51 trans but after following instructions for navigating the web site all is good cutting a keyway
sounds good , no parts needed or tack weld pulley to shaft

Just dropped my tranny out this week and found the input shaft with worn splines and the bottom washer with half of the splines washed out. I will be looking to order those same parts.
Thanks for the info

Thanks for everyone's advice - saved me hundreds of dollars and a lot of time! After 10 years and 406 hours (with a self-installed meter) I experienced the screeching / grinding / scraping noise problem with my John Deere / Scotts S1642 riding mower whenever I engaged the transmission in forward or reverse. My mower would move slowly, but if I tried to gain any speed, the grinding noise started and the tractor stopped.

As with many posters here, I discovered the cause to be extreme wear on the hydrostatic drive's input pulley and input shaft. The spline mating surfaces on the ID of the pulley and on the shaft OD had both worn so badly that the pulley could spin freely (albeit in a chattering way) on the shaft. When I was driving very slowly, the belt pressure held the pulley up against the shaft enough that friction and what was left of the teeth would turn the input shaft. At higher speeds, the torque overcame the grip between pulley and shaft and the pulley release and ground around the input shaft.

I solved the problem by removing the Tuff Torq K51A transaxle (just put the rear hitch on a cinder block and a piece of 2x4, pull off the rear tires, disconnect two linkages to the tranmission, remove six bolts and it's off!), and replacing the pulley and input shaft. Total cost for new shaft kit, new oil, and a new pulley was about $100. Time to complete the repair was about 4-hours once I had all the parts.

I ordered the replacement Splined Input Shaft (Part #19216899490 - called a "Pump/Bearing Kit - K51A, B, E") from Derrick at Tuff Torq (actually I got advice from Derrick - Phone: 866-572-3441, and ordered the parts from their web site - www.tufftorqparts.com - The Input Shaft Kit consists of a splined shaft, a seal, and a spring [the spring is a new improvement and was not part of my original K51A.] The kit cost me $25.00 plus shipping.)

The replacement Pulley (#M127358) I got from my local John Deere Dealer for about $15.00.

Replacement of the Input Shaft is easy and is accomplished without opening the case! While working on the transaxle, I took others' advice and replaced the oil in the unit with Castrol 5W50 Synthetic Oil. On Derrick's recommendation, I just popped the big oil cap off, removed the spring and filter, then inverted the K51A on a 5-gallon bucket to drain. NOTE: Derrick says to NOT invert or move the K51A while you have the input shaft removed as components inside can shift! I drained mine before changing the shaft. Changed the shaft, then filled with 2.25 L of 5W50 (should fill to just above the filter.)

The new spring that goes on the input shaft required some fiddling to get down into the hole.

Be sure to purge the air from the transaxle after refilling it with oil. I failed to do this and at first I thought my repair had failed. Instructions for purging air can be found at the Tuff Torq link above - under the Tech Info link in the lower left corner. After I drove the mower in a slow, herky-jerky fashion for a few minutes, things smoothed out and now it runs as good as new. Now that it's purged I will recheck my transmission oil level this weekend.

I know this is an old thread but I just purchase the same mower as the OP with the same problem. I have the transaxle out and the input shaft ready to come out. I read where all you need to do is remove the c-clip that holds the bearing. I have it out but the input shaft will not come out. I pull as hard as I can but it won't budge.

I have a Scotts 1642S with the K51A transaxle.

Anyone ran into this problem?

Am I missing something or what?

"EDITED"
NEVERMIND!!!! I got a hold of tuff torq.

Visegrips on shaft and tap with hammer! Waalaah! OUT!!!

Voila!

GREAT INFO on the trans. problem. Just dropped mine, splines shot! Question.... When I pulled the spline output shaft out, something under the shaft moved. I assume it is the pump piston drive plate (or what ever it is called). I managed to get it where things line up, but is there a specific orientation? Not sure how it moved, but it did. Also from what I'm reading here syn. oil is the way to go. Just drain as much of the oil out as possible and refill? Any purging that needs to be done? I don't want to have to drop this again any time soon...or burn it up.
THANX to ALL.... I was ready to junk it.

Mike

Hey Mike, any idea how you got whatever moved back to where it needs to be.... I just did the same damn thing.....

Thanks

I figured it out, pump shifted. all fixed

Hi Jay- How'd you get the pump back where it needed to be?

Sorry it took me so long to get back to you... I guess I was just damn lucky.. the pump moved but I could still see a TINY BIT of the center hole with the splines so I took a very skinny screwdriver and was able to finesse it back into place. But I ended up taking the entire transmission apart anyway (for another reason)

I'm sure you've fixed it by now, but anyone with average shade tree mechanic skills should NOT be worried about taking the tranny apart. I was afraid of doing it, but it's pretty simple inside. Just take it slow.

All great information guys. I noticed while do spring cleaning on the mower that i had quite a bit of slop on the input shaft pulley on my K51 tranny, I removed the transmission this weekend and found the pulley quite loose on the shaft. I did quite a bit of research online and found the shaft removes from the case without having to tear the case down and figured i would try welding the pulley onto the shaft, figured i had nothing to loose and if it didnt work i would just replace the pulley and shaft. This is what i did, I removed the c-clip and splined washer on the top of the pulley to give me a good shoulder to weld against. I took 2 pieces of metal that were roughly the same size and performed a sample test on the 2 pieces to be sure i had the heat setting on my welder correct. I took a rag and saturated it in water and wrapped it around the inside of the pulley and another water soaked rag around the shaft so as to not transfer too much heat down the shaft and ruin the plastic fan and possibly damage the input shaft oil seal. The weld came out beautiful and is not going anywhere. The wet rags soaked up all the heat and the plastic fan was not damaged in anyway. After welding the lower part of the shaft where it goes into the tranny was cool as a cucumber. I saved myself a few bucks and there was nothing to loose. I hope this help somebody and let me know if you have any questions.

I had the same problem, drive pulley on top of rear axle is known to strip splines!