Actually, clear plastic works better. The process is called solarization. You first water the area well, then cover it with clear plastic. You have to do it during hot sunny weather and it can take a couple of weeks. Note that it will kill everything, including worms, soil microbes, etc.

I've alwAys used the black, it heats up a little better. Earthworms will migrate to ofer areas. But if you leave in place for a month in the summer it will sterilize the soil.

Both responses were better than I hoped for. Not crazy about killing everything in the soil, but it's much better than that crazy, weed infested poison ivy patch I have there now. So, if I decide to go with some sort of ivy there, should I plant in the spring? Do you think there will be any problems with the left over seeds from the weeds that I'll be killing this year? It's such a large area I'm not sure how I'd deal with weeds comming up between a ground cover.

"There is an overgrown area behind one of my gardens that I finially decided to tackle this year"

When I first read this sentence, I got the impression that the land was not yours. However, now I don't know. Others seem to think that it is your land. Please enlighten us.

LOL. I'm not sure why I would want to clear land that doesn't belong to me but... I own approx 2 acres of land, most of it is grass, gardens, deck, pool, etc. There is an area that I left kind of unmowed/unused because it formed a barrier between my house and the road (I'm on a corner). At the very front of that area I planted a shade garden. Now, a few years later, I'm sick of looking at all those weeds, etc. which is why I want to clear it. If I can remember how to post a pic I will.

Just be sure you *really* want ivy, because once it is established, it spreads like crazy and is very hard to get rid off.

Ivy is a terrible choice on so many levels. The most important level is that it channels rain away from it and affects stormwater runoff negatively, increasing streambed and streambank scouring and peak flows. And, echoing above, you are stuck with it. Like luggage. No, worse than lugagge.

As for spending 120.00 at HD for the amount of plastic needed, clear is best as numerous studies find (think like a greenhouse). Use 6 mil and leave it and your weed seed issues will fade away.

Again, ivy is a bad idea on so many levels (so says the urban ecologist).

Dan

PS: did I mention ivy is a bad idea ecologically?

OK. I see that ivy is bad. Any suggestions for something lush, green, easy and fast spreading? First I was thinking maybe a field of purple loosestrife... JOKING! Seriouly, I'd be happy to hear some ideas.

Covering that much area to solarize it can be a very expensive undertaking in just the cost of the plastic and it will take, according to most everything I've read about doing this, 4 to 6 weeks. The link below, though from California, gives very good instruction and information about the process.

Here is a link that might be useful: Soil Solarization

Here's a moneysaving and reuse suggestion for plastic. Go to a mattress store and ask them for a bunch of the heavy clear plastic bags that mattresses come in. They will probably be happy to get rid of them for free. Cut along the sides and you have a huge piece of plastic. It won't take too many of the king and queen size ones to get you there.

I wonder if you might be happy if you just mowed it with the lawnmower from time to time.

If you're not planting til next year, you can do a section at a time and not buy plastic to cover the whole area at once.

Anyone besides me not like the idea of ivy? ;-)

tj

I'm not sure that I'd have time to do it in sections. We've had a very cool start to summer here and it doesn't seem like it's going to change any time soon. If each section takes 4 weeks I'm thinking I may have to get the whole thing done in July.

As far as mowing it from time to time... Believe me it crossed my mind, but even with it all weed wacked it does look kind of ratty. This area was full of small trees, huge weeds, tons of poison ivy, etc. I do want to plant something that's fast growing and extremely low maintenance because the rest of my yard consumes all of my free time.

Also, I'm going to look into that mattress thing, but don't they usually sell the mattress with the plastic on?

Temp doesn't matter with clear plastic - the UV rays from the sun do.

Dan

Seriously, the most low-maintenance thing you can do there is regular mowing. Any groundcover planted there will require regular weeding or the woody weeds will just grow back. Pulling poison ivy vines out of a groundcover is no fun.

Experimental tests around here found out that solarization with clear plastic just doesn't work. All it does is create a nice comfy growing place for the weeds. The heat doesn't build up enough to kill anything. Black plastic can smother things, if left on long enough. When it breaks down, though, you end up with pieces of plastic trash everywhere.

Here, the problem with ivy is that it can die back pretty badly after a hard winter, and takes forever to get back to looking halfway decent. Also, if another vine, like poison ivy, gets mixed up in it, separating the two can be a big job.

Re: matress plastic, a lot of those mattresses are delivered and set up and the old one hauled away by the delivery guys. They also end up with the plastic unless the customer wants it. My local Denver Mattress has (or did last time I was there) tons of plastic as well as foam sheets, incredible industrial strength bubble wrap, etc. in their dumpster and are happy as clams if people take it because they pay every time their dumpster is emptied by the truck.

A patchwork quilt of clear plastic won't work. The area to be treated needs to be covered tightly (!) after watering and allowed to steam for several weeks, depending upon the amount of sunlight to the site. Black plastic heats only the surface of the soil, while clear allows for deep heat treatment (solarization).

I've read that double layers of plastic works best, as does bubble wrap. But all edges must be thoroughly buried so that no heat escapes.

Using big sheets of cardboard and covered with mulch can be helpfull as well. There is no magic product. Black plastic, clear plastic, newspaper, cardboard, mowing, herbicides. They all have potential and drawbacks. You just have to do trial and error after seeking advise. As for ground covers there is a wonderful book out called Covering Ground. I don't have the book with me right now and can't remimber who wrote it but it shows many different plant options for every situation. I also goes over many aggressive plants to avoid. There are several good books out there, but this particular one is very inspirational.

A free source of plastic for covering soil is the material used to wrap stacks of lumber. This will have the sawmill name and other info on the outside but the inside is usually unmarked and can be white, black or cream coloured. You will just have to go to the local lumber yard and try to arrange to get this plastic when they unwrap new bundles of lumber.

Can you borrow some goats for a week?

I actually had a goat follow me when I was out for a run not that long ago! (A little unusual). Maybe I should have tried to get it to come home with me.

The soil temperature does matter. According to everything I have read about soil solarization the soil temperatures need to reach 120 degrees for several hours to effectively kill the weeds that are in that soil.

Hmmm... I'm thinking this may not work. As I mentioned, I had planned to plant ivy because the area was mostly shady. Don't think it will get hot enough. Buying the book "Covering Ground"

Goats! What a wonderful idea. Keep them and you can make yogurt!

dc has a great sense of humor.

That book sounds interesting! Covering Ground. Who is the author?

lisa2004, Did it work or did you do something instead of soil solarization.

Yes, Lisa if you are still around it would be great to know what you tried and what worked or did not work. I am in the process of an experiment along these lines myself. I have used old carpets that I got from Free Cycle to smother the growing weeds. That part has worked out great so far. The next phase: what to do after I take up the carpet? My plan so far is to cover the area with cardboard and then cover that with leaves (to keep the weeds from growing back.) Anyone else have any success with any methods? I'd love to hear about it!

I have used carpet in the past until it rotted. One year I use it like a bed cover, cut an X in the spot, tucked the corner of the X back under the carpet & planted the transplant.
I have some carpet that I use as you do, in my garden now.
But my "Total Organic Friends" frown on using anything that may lech chemicals into the soil.
The purist think"do not dig or till", if it is man made it is bad. I am not that pure myself.

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I was just listening to 'You Bet Your Garden' on the radio and the garden guy was talking about using highly acidic vinegar. The regular stuff is about 5 percent acidic and he was talking about 20 percent at the high end.

The idea was to apply it when the soil was really dry and there was no rain expected for a couple of days at least. The pH goes acid, down in the 5s, and then you just wait for the soil to return to a normal pH. If you wanted to return things to normal pH sooner you could apply wood ash after about a month to accelerate the process.

You'd want to be careful about plants nearby. This was an idea for localized weed control. I don't know how expensive it would be to apply to a wide area.

You Bet Your Garden - http://www.whyy.org/91FM/ybyg/

two cents
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Here is a link that might be useful: You Bet Your Garden

Thanks, rott. Now that you post this, I remember,when I was young we used gasoline to kill small stumps. I was tell my brother how bad that was for the earth. He said everyone is now using strong vinegar to kill weeds. I did not think the vinegar was strong or would kill the plant. Seems to me, you are saying that it change the soil & kills the plant.
Could a diluted form, say 2%, be used around blueberry plants?

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I tried some used diluted vinegar on some weeds in some cracks in the driveway with mixed effect.

The context of the You Bet Your Garden was aimed at killing weeds. It probably zaps a bit of soil life too when zapping the pH levels like that. They were cautious about any plants you might want to keep and to steer clear of those.

I don't know jack about blueberries.
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I may be wrong about this, but I thought the horticultural vinegar was sprayed on the leaves and killed through direct contact. From what I've read on it, one of the downsides to it is that it only kills the leaves, so repeated uses may be needed to kill the plant completely.

Rott--using diluted vinegar is not likely to work. You need really strong stuff (not household vinegar). The stuff that is used to kill plants is strong enough to burn if you spill it on your skin.

Funny to see this post reappear after all of this time. Actually, out of frustration, I resorted to chemicals. I sprayed several times and even that didn't kill everything. Everytime I thought I got it all I'd see something comming back to life. I'm waiting till spring to see what's still there. I also tried mowing, but the area is much to unlevel and rocky. I'm thinking of renting some sort of machine to clear it... not sure what kind of machine you would use for that, lol. Just getting desperate.

lisa2004, I am going through old post to learn things I missed. I have been away on Kitchen Garden site & neglected this site. My fault.
I really wanted to know if "Soil Salorization" will work!
I am trying to kill wild garlic, coastal Bahia grass, & wild dewberry. Round-Up in the blue jig will NOT kill dewberries, the new growth has wrinkle leaves for a few day, but still grows. I will try the vinegar & soil salorization & post what happens.

The vinergar idea sounds interesting. Where do you buy vinergar that strong? Do they sell it at the grocery store? I have my doubts that it would kill something that weed killer couldn't. But, it is worth a try... I really do hate chemicals.

After you kill the weeds (I haven't been able to do this yet!) There is a site called stepables.com or something like that that has very hardy ground covers that you can walk on.
HTH Nancy

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The radio guy advised to go down to a garden store. I haven't shopped around myself. It should be available on-line but shipping liquids is expensive.

I just get the big bottle of 5 percent acidity white vinegar at the local bulk club.

I wonder what it takes to make it more concentrated.
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Here is a link that might be useful: You Bet Your Garden