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80 year old rose

15 years ago

I am new to the garden web and have been searching to see if anyone can give me some advice. I have a rose bush that is around 80 yrs. old, it is now in a pot. It was in my yard and we moved and I potted it around last sept./ oct. It has bloomed here several months ago but seems to be stressed out from the heat. I contacted a landscaper that seems knowledgeable and he said not to plant it in the ground until fall. He also said I could bring it in the house. I did and I am wondering if it will be ok inside? I am not sure how much to water it I was watering in like every 2 days or so. This rose means so much to me, it was my Mothers and her Mother gave it to her when she was married. I now have it and would like to keep it as long as I can.It is at least 80 years old.I don't know the name of it but it is pink, and was very full. The last time it bloomed the color was a darker pink and smaller for some reason. I also thought maybe I could root it and start a new plant. Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

Comments (13)

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Do not bring it in the house. Roses are not houseplants.

    If you get freezing weather put it into the garage or anywhere that stays above about 20F.

    Absolutely you should root some cuttings! There's lots of info for different methods. This blog has a method that seems fairly successful and fairly simple:

    Here is a link that might be useful: rose seek's blog

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Thank you Hoovb. Out of curiosity, did the landscaper tell you why you shouldn't put the rose in the ground now? Being potted in Arizona now would stress it to the max! Tops of plants can withstand extreme conditions, but roots can't. Cactus can endure well over a hundred degrees for days on end, but expose their roots to that, and they're toast. The roots in your pot are at least as hot as the surrounding air temperatures.

    Hoovb is right. Roses are NOT houseplants. It is too dry and there is not enough light for it to live indoors. You can get away with putting it in the garage over winter because the plant will have shut down a good deal for the winter.

    Is there anywhere outdoors in partial sun or filtered shade the plant can be held through the worst of the heat? Somewhere the foliage can receive light, or even partial day's full sun, while the pot remains shaded and cooler? Or, where the upper portion is in similar conditions and you can dig a hole and sink the pot into the ground to cool it off? You'd need to make sure it remained watered sufficiently and that the pot can drain without the hole filling up with water like a bucket and the plant drowning.

    I know you're much hotter with far more extreme conditions than we have here now, but I've been planting canned roses into the ground for several weeks, including today in the 95 degree heat. None have suffered any set backs and all actually appear "relieved"! New foliage is pushing on them within days of being planted. The root balls are far cooler in the ground than they have been in the cans, even when totally shaded and they are remaining much more well watered because the soil holds water better and with the cooler temperatures under ground, the water doesn't bake out as it has in the cans.

    As long as you don't break up the root ball and it isn't too hot for YOU to handle planting it, I wouldn't think getting it into the ground now would be that much of an issue. But, that's up to you. I seriously would propagate more plants of it while you have material to do it with.

    Being as old as you state it is, I would imagine it would either be own root, or have gone own root. Usually, if budded and that old, the center of the root stock dies out and the budded portion breaks up so it can be divided like a chrysanthemum. You might take a look at where the plant grows from the soil to determine if there might be suckers you could separate from the original when the weather cools.

    You may also feel free to visit my blog, the one in the link above, browse it to see if the wrapping method seems something you might be able to accomplish. I'd suggest starting at the beginning and reading it through first as the more recent posts are tweaks on the original theme. You'll have the basic information as well as the further gleanings which should make it easier if you decide to try it.

    If it looks doable and you have any questions, please feel free to ask. I'll do my best to give you as good an answer as I can! Good luck! Kim

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Ignore the advice of ANYONE who tells you to take roses into the house as potted plants.

    You didn't say where you moved FROM, so we don't know what type of conditions this rose is used to. I see from your profile that you are new to Arizona ... where in Arizona are you?

    I am not familiar with the exact details of all Arizona growing conditions, if it were mine I would plant it. This is not a bare root rose that needs to be coddled until it breaks dormancy and begins to grow. It is a potted rose, that is growing and has bloomed, and it would be much safer in the ground than it is in the pot.

    Do you have a spot in mind, and is it prepared? If so, put that thing in the ground and keep an eye on it. Make sure it stays watered and monitor it for heat stress. I plant roses any time during the year, as long as the groundis workable (not too dry and dusty, or wet and soggy, or frozen).

    If you want to take cuttings, I have a method on my web site that has shown really good results, linked below. The best time to take cuttings is just after the rose has flowered.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Hartwood Roses: Click on How To

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    If that guy is your landscaper, fire him! Roses in the house is very Very VERY BAD! Roses in a pot outside are OK. Roses in a really Really REALLY big pot outside are Better. But roses in the ground are BEST!

    Everyone else has given you all the great advice you need to plant this rose. I'll add that if you don't have a spot that gets dappled or only morning sun to put the pot in or plant it you can use shade cloth over it for a while until it gets settled and starts to put on new growth and look better. Keep it very well watered but don't drown it! And no chemical fertilizers. Use something strictly organic to feed it like a fish emulsion.

    As for the blooms being darker and smaller, that's probably due to your potting it. You changed it's growing conditions and it responded to that change: different weather (or soil), different color, smaller root ball, smaller blooms.

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Some techniques for summer planting that worked for me

    1. Dig a large hole, fill with water and let all the water drain out. Use spade or digging fork to loosen the soil along the sides and at the bottom of the hole. That is soo that the hole does not become an underground pot. Then fill with water again, let about half drain, NO ferts except for maybe diluted fish fert and a drop of superthrive if you like to use it into the water. Set the wet rootball--you did also soak the rootball in water, or a mudbath prior to planting, right?--directly from water or mud into the hole half full of draining water. start filling with the soil you dug out. Tamp the soil down at about 3/4 full. I simply step into the hole. The reason for that is to eliminate air pockets around the roots. Leave a bowl-like depression around the rose, BUT, mound some soil around the bottom canes.

    2. Choose a site with afternoon shade if possible, and make a temporary windbreak if there is no permanent one west of the plant. Dry west wind does as much or more damage than sun. Try to plant away from concrete, blacktop, rockscaping etc. which reflects light and heat back at the plant. Worst of all is the crushed white rock. Where I live, those kind of features are extremely valuable for zone pushing, but for hot and dry AZ or CA, they can kill.

    3. It is advisable to mulch with about 4 inches of leaves, straw, alfalfa hay is best if you can get it, or similar material.

    4. Water from the end of a hose tucked under the mulch about every other day through the hot months. I would not want to leave that easy to forget chore to a hired hand.

    5. If you find a good spot near the back door, your new rose can be the favored plant to receive cooled pasta, potato, vege washing water, cold coffee and grounds, left over wine, etc etc.

    Where did the plant used to live, and what diretion exposure did it have?

    I second the remark about firing the landscaper. He would have suggested keeping the rose in the house so that he could not be blamed if it died. Be aware that aggressive leaf blowing can kill young plants.

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    All of us do things a bit differently, but here's my feedback.

    We just recently planted some potted up roses here, and also some others about 3 weeks prior to that. I know what you are going through in worrying about the effect of the heat on the rose for planting now. We've had mostly weather in the nineties, including the high nineties, but our newly planted roses are doing wonderfully well here in spite of it. Fingers crossed that yours will do great too.

    Books. If you're fairly new to roses, there are some cheap, cheap, cheap used books available at Amazon with advice on things like the planting hole. My favorite is Liz Druitt's "The Organic Rose Garden" because of its thorough discussion of organic nutrients to put into the hole and to use for feeding your roses. But another excellent book is Judith McKeon's "The Encyclopedia of Roses: An Organic Guide to Growing and Enjoying America's Favorite Flower" and it has all the necessary information. Judith McKeon's book is especially strong on illustrating the basics.

    Mycorrhiza. We use an organic product called "mycorrhiza" on the roots of all our roses. It's not essential, but one of the ways it helps the rose is in providing extra pathways for the rose to receive extra nutrients, including water. Planting a rose in the dessert in the height of summer heat, your plant can probably can use all the help it can get in taking in sufficient water. The product we used was BioVam from tandjenterprises.com and we were happy with it, though I don't know that one is better than others. David Austin also sells a product with mycorrhiza and it looks good too: "David Austin Mycorrhizal Fungi". You don't need much of this stuff per plant; once it makes contact with the roots, it spreads.

    Siting the rose. It needs some protection from too much sun in the near term, but probably not the long term. If it's a full-sun needy rose (almost a certainty), it would be better off located in a full sun spot or as close to full sun as you have available. Then you can use something temporarily added to help block some of the sun for the next few weeks while the rose is trying to adjust. Most people use a lawn chair for that, I think. (We never have that problem, as we don't have any spots with absolutely full sun, other than some spots that deer traipse through near our vegetable garden where we won't have roses anymore.)

    The planting hole. Don't step on the soil for tamping it down; it's too easy to break off your plant's precious roots that way. Just gently use your hands to tamp down the soil and let a lot of water settle the rest of the soil. Be sure to water your potted rose the day before you're going to plant, but never water it immediately prior to planting or soak a rose that's potted up; doing so leaves it vulnerable to losing large chunks of roots from the weight of the soil that might fall off. It's going to get plenty of water as soon as it goes into the ground.

    If the rose is pot bound at all, then you'll need to gently loosen and brush the soil away from the roots all along the edges and bottom, going inwards by maybe an inch or so. If you don't do that, the roots might circle round and round in the ground to keep growing in the same soil they've gotten used to, failing to venture out and get more moisture and nutrients that a larger site can accommodate. For the last three roses that we planted in the heat last week, they're all doing great. Two that started as bands in April that we had potted up into gallon containers weren't remotely close to being pot bound and they went into the ground intact. The one that we got from a nursery in April and were slow in getting into the ground was slightly pot bound, though, and we had to do the soil loosening thing on it. It's doing fine, but of course, it has been babied too, with its roots sprinkled with a little mycorrhiza during planting and then getting overhead watering once or twice a day.

    I'd suggest lots of organics for the hole; there's no risk of a burn or stress on the plant that way. If you get Liz Druitt's book, you'll see that you can use lots of different organics to add up in the long run to the macro and micro nutrients the rose needs. We use what we can find around here: lots of chopped up banana peels, bone meal, lots of composted oak leaves, some spaghnum peat moss, lots of alfalfa and cottonseed meal, composted cow manure, and a bit of greensand. Our roses do pretty much take off and start blooming like crazy once they get into the ground here, and that's true too for those roses we're planting in the very hot weather here of late. We never ever use anything on our roses other than organic products and they work well thrown on top of the mulch later in the year too.

    Watering. We water on top of the ground, and if we ever see powdery mildew, give the affected rose a good hard spray. The only roses that have ever gotten any powdery mildew here have been growing in far too little sunlight though, so you probably won't have that problem... especially if you can do the overhead watering thing when the sun isn't out to burn the wet leaves. Another benefit of overhead watering is that you'll moisten the mulch that way too, and that wet mulch will evaporate some of the water as the day wears on, thus reducing the dryness in the immediate area of the rose. And finally, if you overhead water or hand water with the hose sprayer, you stand a good chance of washing any blackspot fungal spores on the surface farther down under the mulch, where it won't affect the rose. (Note that this advice isn't standard within the rose world, but we've had excellent luck with this method--if you have enough water to be able to do this. Or at least do it initially, until the rose is established. You probably don't have much of a blackspot worry to begin with, though.)

    In the heat of the south and especially in the dessert it would be much better to water once or twice a day for the first couple of weeks until it's looking settled in and growing. That's assuming the rose has good drainage. It's more wasteful of water, of course, but I'd much prefer heavy watering on top of the mulch, not a drip, drip with crossed fingers that you've dripped enough to add up to something meaningful. With a rose that's just been transplanted, you don't want to take a chance on inadequate moisture.

    Good luck with your precious rose!

    Best wishes,
    Mary

    Here is a link that might be useful: The Organic Rose Garden [Hardcover] by Liz Druitt

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I agree with Mary in all but one thing: Amount of Sunlight.

    In SOUTHERN Arizona, most people I have known try to provide some shade for roses during the hottest months of the year. Even here in the relatively-cool coastal part of Southern California, we find that many roses are healthier if they're not blasted by day-long sun. Morning sun is kindest. Afternoon sun can be tough.

    It's really only the Chinas and Teas, and some of the Noisettes that have enough foliage to protect their canes during our worst heatwaves.

    Jeri

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Hi all and thank you for all your information. Just an update on my rose: I didn't explain myself very well, I potted the rose last year from PA (I know your not allowed to do this, but if my rose didn't move I wasn't going to either)and drove it to AZ with me. It was in a plastic pot that was not very big. The rose did fine, it bloomed several times. So it has been getting acclimated. It just looked not as well lately, It has been so extremely hot, in the 100's and I am sure it needed more room than it had in that smaller pot.I got really nervous. I have been wanting to plant it but not sure where as I don't want it in the afternoon sun, and not sure how long I will be here in this house. So I didn't like the idea of bringing it in either, wanted to see what you guys thought. So I had some help and I bought a Huge plastic pot about 3 times the size it was in and so very carefully as not to disturb it, put it in this pot and it seems so much happier!!! It is on a covered patio and gets morning sun, I keep a careful eye on it. It is getting new growth on it already, I am so relieved (this rose means so much to me you can't imagine.I water it every morning and it seems to be draining well. I will decide as to put it in the ground or not but I am glad I did re-pot it and your information was so helpful. I didn't think many would respond. I think I am gonna like this "Garden Web". I will keep you updated, Thanks so much

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Snowberries, sounds as if you did the right thing. You can insulate the roots quite well with a larger pot as soil does a great job of insulating roots from heat. Now it's putting on growth, practice propagating until you can make more of it. You might put a few of them in the ground where you are and keep the mother in the pot. If you've made gardening friends in the area, share some with them, too. Hedging your bet by making more and spreading them around will help prevent you from losing it eventually. The pressure will reduce greatly once there are sources for cuttings should anything happen to your original. Congratulations! I'm happy you hit upon the right thing to do and continue enjoying your cherished rose! Now, you can photograph it and ask for help identifying it on the forums. It will only add to your enjoyment! Kim

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Oh, I'm so glad to hear that your rose has perked up for you! I know how you feel about it. I have two precious roses that have been in the family for at least 60 years too. I am in the process of doing what Kim suggested, rooting cuttings, to preserve my heirloom roses. It isn't all that hard and there are some great threads on here about how to do it. Keep us posted on your progress!

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Just a quick update on my rose, it's doing great!!! I wanted to let you all know that it has many new leaves on it and looks so much happier. I probably will be putting it in the ground and definitely Not in the house...thanks again, oh and I have been reading on propagating, I will let you know how that goes.

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Snowberries this post really made my day! I've been extremely worried/concerned/stressed these past 2 weeks, and seeing all the helpful forumers chime in to help rescue your very precious rose really brightens my heart! and I'm so glad to read how well your rose is doing! Blessings to you, and hugs to all who wrote such great advice on your thread.

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Snowberries -- have you been able to put a name to the face? Do you know what venerable 80 year old you have coddled back to health?

    Kay