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batyabeth

Time to finally ask for help

16 years ago

This might be longish and rambling, but I'm stumped on a few fronts and need to turn to you all instead of just lurking.

I live in a very hot, rather rainless climate. My "dirt" is dry, lifeless, rock-hard and useless on its own. I dug a pit about 18" down, laid over it some chicken wire, and have been layering kitchen waste, UCG, old garden plants and as much leaves, etc as I can find. The only really large amount of leaves I have are eucalyptus, which I have read here are not good for compost. I have no chipper, lawn mower or any other way to shred leaves other than my hands or a pair of scissors. I have little or no recourse for straw or anything else that has to be brought in by car (don't have one of those either!) Over the past 6 months, the pile has been doing what I thought was great.....melting down in size, not smelling or having flying bugs or visiting critters, etc. I water it every few days in this weather with a bucket from under the AC, and it's moist but not wet. When I turn it, I see masses of writhing maggots, which up until now I was sure was the ideal. Now I read that visible maggots and bugs are NOT good, even a major bad thing.

I was going to ask how I knew when the compost was done...... like when there were no more visible bugs and the writhing activity has gone way down. I just got my computer back after 10 days in the shop, and I read posts ("bugs") that put me back to the despairing beginning. I have lots more questions about starting a lasagna pile, or where to find mulch without a car, etc, but for the moment it seems I'm on the wrong track completely with a regular ol' backyard pile. Sigh.

Any suggestions? Wagging of fingers? Pointed questions? Outright snickers with pained explanations? Any and all will be welcome.

Peace, Batya

Comments (13)

  • 16 years ago

    In my experience, any creature that wants to set up housekeeping in your backyard and digest your compost material is good. If the stuff is decomposing, doesn't smell bad or turn into a soupy mess, and leaves nice, black, crumbly compost as the end result, then you have a successful compost pile.

    I would start another pile, similar to the first, and let the first "finish." That way you'll have some finished compost to apply to your gardens in a couple of months, and the creatures will gradually migrate to the new pile.

  • 16 years ago

    Batya, you're suffering from Neocomposter Syndrome, or "NS". Sometimes that means Nova Scotia. But most of the time, it means you're fussing when you shouldn't be fussing. It sounds to me like everything is going just fine.

  • 16 years ago

    Hi and welcome. Definitely don't fret.

    Are the maggots big fat ones (which are called Soldier Fly maggots here in the US) or tiny ones from house flies? Is there a cloud of flies bothering you and the neighbors?

    Are you putting mostly kitchen waste in or is there a significant amount of leaves and other stuff going in?

    Meat, dairy and fats going in or staying out?

    Do you have any 'browns' like dried leaves, sawdust, newspaper etc. to balance the kitchen waste?

    In the dry climate you might want to cover the pile loosely to keep moisture in, but not too tight that you keep out all the air. A loose tarp, paper or burlap sacks, a couple layers of newspaper, etc. will help with that.

    It sounds like you have the pile suspended over a pit and that's probably not necessary. In fact, it will make it dry out faster. You can build it right on the ground.

    I'll have more when I know the answers to some of these questions.

  • 16 years ago

    From my experience, eucalyptus leaves and chips do not deserve the bad reputation. I use them almost exclusively for mulch, compost, garden pathways. Lemon and Silver Dollar eucs. are the varieties whose safety in the garden I can vouch for. Don't know about other varieties.

    Once the leaves dry out, they shatter quite easily with just the pressure of your gloved hands. Another way to reduce the particle size of materials for your composte pile is to lay the material in a heavily used pathway. I have found this useful.

    I presume that you are also using grey water from the kitchen for your gardening.[pre-rinsing dishes/pans, washing vegetables, etc.] I also use water from my bath tub. The soap doesn't seem to bother my plants.

  • 16 years ago

    Given the dryness of your climate and the wetness of kitchen waste and things that you are using, I wonder if you would have success digging a trench about 10 inches deep where you want to grow things, and put your compost materials into the trench and covering them with your soil? I know our climate is vastly different from yours, but it would put the compost where the roots of the plants can use the nutrients and the moisture from the greens would be preserved by the soil. I used this trench method one winter and in the spring had amazing growth from it.

  • 16 years ago

    Batya - I live in Phoenix AZ - we have similar climates and soils. An easier way to improve the soil is to install a drip irrigation system with the tubes right on the dirt, then heavily mulch the garden area and plant through the mulch. I had to use a mattock to make holes for the first bunch of plants, this year I used a hand trowel. I have done absolutely no tilling!

    Start with plants like okra that have huge root systems and aren't fussy about what they are growing in. Their dead roots will ad organic matter as they decay, and open channels down into the clay.

    You can add some "soil sulfur" to lower the pH a bit if you have any, then several layers of newspapers, thoroughly wet and covered with whatever leaves or other organic material you can collect.

    I don't know where you got the idea that eucalyptus leaves are bad to compost: it's not going to slow down the decomposition noticeable. I compost anything that used to be a plant and quite a bit of animal matter.

    For your kitchen waste, try "trench composting" between rows of vegetables. Basically, you just bury it in trenches.
    http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1390646/composting_without_bins_or_piles.html

    I just keep adding layers of mulch - whatever is handy.

    Here's a cheap, no-turn compost bin:
    http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1447458/building_a_cheap_wire_compost_bin.html

    Here is a link that might be useful: Garden over hard-packed alkaline clay ... first year

  • 16 years ago

    Oh!Oh! Thank you for your encouragement. I'm really a good composter after all!

    The eucs we have here are whatever grows all around Israel, meaning the tallest weeds known to man. I can pile up the leaves and stomp on them easily.

    I have been thinking exactly what nygardener said, to start another pile and move on over. That can be done this weekend. The heat here has even broken our own records. Most probably soldier fly maggots, big and fat, yes. Rarely a cloud of flies. I have been keeping it covered with dry brush, while underneath it's moist, not wet. Every layer of kitchen waste gets covered with browns. Never any meat, dairy or fats. The chicken wire is barely a few inches over the bottom of the hole; I'll put the second pile as deep but no wire (anyway, I don't have anymore). Water is definitely re-used, as in collected from the air conditioners and from the bucket in the shower - I rarely have to open the hose. There is no garden to trench compost yet. All of the ground is desert hardpan, and yes, a mattock is the only thing that will break it. I've been thinking of using the lasagna garden idea to make even a first patch. All of my plants now are in containers. Nearly every piece of ground in Haifa is on a slope, but I chose a relatively flat spot; of course, right between two euc trees. We have August, Sept and Oct before the heat really goes and the rains begin, but we never even frost here, so I might have time to plant a few okra and see what happens, for the price of a few seeds, easy to get here as it's a popular food. Lazy, your pics are lovely, and yes, your ground looks very familiar!!
    As far as animal matter goes, I have threatened DG that I will use her car to go to the Haifa zoo and get giraffe poop but unfortunately she believes me. For now I will content myself with the fact that she kindly puts the UCGs and salad bits into a jar in the kitchen, and begging the stuff leftover from the carrot juicer at our favorite cafe. She barely looks askance at that anymore........giraffe poop can't be far behind.
    Thanks again folks. You're the only ones I can wax gleeful about worms and maggots to.

  • 16 years ago

    Batya - You mentioned the Haifa Zoo and getting Giraffe poop, what does the zoo normally do with their animal waste? Do they have a use for it or are they happy to get rid of it. If they're happy to get rid of it do you have a friend or neighbor with a pickup truck or other small truck that you could borrow or have them haul a load of zoo waste to your home? How about straw, is there a place where you could get a bale or two, or how about spoiled hay. If you can locate these items and can get them hauled to your house you could put them in a pile and use them as you need them. What I do is take a few bales of straw and form a bin and then gradually add horse manure - weeds and other greens, as well as straw - leaves and other browns and keep it all slightly moist. When it's done composting I use it in my gardens. If you were to do something like this you could prepare an area you want to garden in while you are making compost. You could even grow in your compost bin after it's done. Just some suggestions for you to think about...

    Greg
    Nevada USA

  • 16 years ago

    Thanks Greg. I actually mentioned it to DG last night as a kind of joke and was told I'd better look for a new sweetheart if I make good on my threat! But slowly, I have been looking for sources of the other stuff which is less odd, I suppose. Around here I have had to convince the other neighbors in my 4-flat that I'm not really throwing garbage into the yard, but building compost. They think I'm all kinds of weird but so far (we've been here a year) they have seen how lovely my garden work is and that I'm not stark raving mad about other things, so it's a process. There is a fledgling community gardening group here, with kindred souls, and a fairly good country-wide sustainable living/green/permaculture etc web forum where I'm a member. Slowly the culture is accepting this as, if not normal, at least not a reason to call the cops! I'm getting there............What I really am waiting for is for the Mediterranean Sea to do what it did about 5 years ago: cough up tons of seaweed that washed up on the shore for no good reason, blanketing the shore and a good 300 meters of water. The city took huge machines and collected it on the beach into mountains of gorgeous stuff, to be thrown away, the morons. DG, son and I showed up with buckets, garbage bags and tools and asked politely if I could have some. Although they tagged me as a nut job, they agreed, and my compost that year was fabulous. Waiting on Nature to do it again, though. In the meantime, I collect odd stuff and odder looks, and continue on my merry way. Gardening is hard enough in this climate, as you know. Working on the hay connection as we speak. Thanks again, and if I can figure out the picture thing, I'll send them here. Peace.

  • 16 years ago

    You are doing great work and educating your neighbors in the process! More power to you. I am rather surprised how wasteful people seem to be there and clueless about organic matter and soil health, in a nation of deserts, scarce water and resources. It is more like the US and I thought everyone else was so much farther ahead. Tell them the Americans said if we are going to continue sending all that aid we expect you people to compost! LOL

    PS Lasagne sounds good, it will save you having to dig into that hardpan until it is softened up.

  • 16 years ago

    Seaweed is really magic stuff. It contains every element on earth since it all ends up in the sea. The problem is the salt on it unless you have access to a lot of fresh water to wash it off and it doesn't sound like that's your situation. The last thing you want in desert soil is salt build up since there isn't enough rainfall to leach it away.
    Desert soil is pretty magic in itself. Because it hasn't been leached by rain the minerals necessary are usually there in abundance. The only thing usually lacking is nitrogen. Here in the US whenever desert soil is first irrigated it grows fantastic crops for quite a few years before it needs much added nutrient.

  • 16 years ago

    If you are in a 4-plex, can you get your neighbours to save their kitchen waste too? I have a small bucket with a tight lid on it and toss in my veggie scraps, coffee grounds, paper napkins and paper towels. It would be a great community project, especially if they saw some good results.

  • 16 years ago

    Actually tox, some of the best solutions for desert and arid soil have been developed here. Nearly impossible to get here though; it's almost exclusively exported to Africa, where it's been very successful. But more and more permaculture classes are being given, and more and more people know exactly what compost is, etc. Lots of community gardening groups in the larger cities and lots of small community building around saving the beaches or not polluting the water we have with better laws about waste management. Long long way to go but although the normal citizen is fairly clueless (about a great many things.......don't get me started!) it's no way as odd as it was to hear party chatter about these things anymore, and the NGO's that deal with the environment are mainstream and not ignored. Much.
    Hoo - I didn't rinse the seaweed, just glopped it on the pile and it didn't do - or at least I couldn't discern - any salt damage. And in Haifa, the whole city is on a mountain overlooking a bay (think San Fransisco), and our winter rains from Oct-March wash everything downhill into the sewers, then into the sea. Including any topsoil on any slope, leaving rocky bare lifeless layers of mud which will become hardpan and bake into concrete when it dries.

    Dotty: Kitchen waste? Probably not. Yet, anyway. But my upstairs neighbor saves her shower and cleaning water, and has a bucket under her AC spout. The other first floor lady is ripe for an AC bucket consciousness change; DG and I talked about getting her to do it yesterday. So far, they are pleased as punch someone finally is dealing with the space around the house, but differences in, um, style abound. Like one sweeps the dirt under the tree so it won't be dirty, and the other can't understand why worms are our friends and will hysterically kill anything she sees as an interloper into her sterile space around the house and stairs, and neither of them can fathom why I rake the leaves but won't throw them away in the dumpster. Besides things like that, they are good neighbors and cautiously interested from afar as they watch me dig the second compost pile. We've only been here a year, and we are going to have to all 4 of us completely replace the roof before winter, a huge expense, and I don't want to push my luck!
    Peace, B