Andrea is this clay soil I am guessing? I have heavy clay soil and I have found it is much easier to dig after it has gotten rain for a few days, so now that you have filled the hole a couple times you may still be able to dig some more. I normally make my holes 24-26 inches deep.
Whether that will solve your drainage problem or not, sadly I cannot say, but I'm also not sure if maybe you just filled the hole too much? When I do this test I don't exactly "fill it with water", just put a few inches of water in like a normal heavy rain storm and make sure it drains well.

I would try for another round of digging--make that hole a bit wider and deeper. As mz said, do it after a rain or a watering when the soil is moist (not waterlogged, however), not dry and hard. Then I'd try one more water check.

What I'm wondering about is if you have a layer of hard clay about a foot down. That is how my soil often is--so I need to dig that second foot to break up the layer of clay down there. As a result, my rose holes usually drain in less than fifteen minutes.

On the other hand, I believe the test is does it drain in less than an hour--so technically you met that criteria.

Kate

I did exactly as the directions said. The second filling
took 2 hours to drain which is too much time.

I realize that I have hard clay about one foot down. I am
going to have my gardner (I am too weak with a rotten back)
dig the holes, seven of them, to 24 inches. I have
also, as suggested by Michael of this site, purchased
calcined clay (Turface) and will put this in the bottom of
each hole. I will then plant and backfill the holes with
dirt removed from the holes, some rose soil, and some
compost.

From everything I've read here and elsewhere, this should
make an acceptable bed for the roses.

Thanks a bunch for your help.

andrea

Andrea, don't put Turface in the bottom of the hole. "Drainage layers" actually make drainage worse (the reason is complicated). Digging deep holes in poor-draining soil can also make things worse. (Water still has to drain down through the subsoil, and your amended hole will gather more water than the surrounding soil.) I encourage you to prepare the whole planting area uniformly to a depth of just 10 or 12 inches. You can incorporate the Turface and some manure, a 2-3 inch layer of each. This will raise the area above the surround and improve drainage for the feeder roots, which are shallow roots.

The difference between your two tests is from the soil originally being somewhat dry. You are supposed to start with the soil and subsoil being really soaked, because that is the condition when drainage becomes an issue. If the sides of the hole are somewhat vertical, and if the soil is already quite wet, then to drain 16" in EIGHT hours shows satisfactory drainage. If you have a mattock, it should be fairly easy work to fix the shape of the hole.

Michael,

Oh boy am I glad you saw my post!!!

I will retry the drainage test as you you described it tonight.

Not to sound ignorant, , again, , but what is the surround? Is that the height at which the planted rose will sit? And, do I really have to use 'pooh'? Can I use compost instead? But, if it's necessary, it's necessary. I just called Regan's and they have both chicken manure and steer manure.

I have agonized over these next roses so much. I am terribly thankful to have some help.

Thanks again,

California Annie
(andrea)

By "surround" I just meant the adjacent soil surfaces. Imagine 2" of rain falling--it is going to run off the hard clay surround and be absorbed by the fluffy soil in your amended holes until the soil in the holes is saturated.
Then all that water still has to drain out through the lower surfaces of the hole, which may be nearly impervious hardpan. That's why amending the area uniformly is better than deep holes.

I use yard-waste compost because I have it. However, manure has a stronger and longer-lasting effect on loosening the soil. It is like industrial-strength compost. You could at least get a few bags of cheap bagged feedlot manure and mix it with compost.

Chicken manure is strong fertilizer--I wouldn't use it in bulk as a soil amendment.

I already have the whole 13' by 3.5' amended with about
6-8 inches of compost and rose soil. Hope this is ok.

I will get the steer 'stuff' and build the holes (10" to 12")
as you suggested with the 'stuff' and Turface....

I am so excited. It's just like Christmas!

andrea

Oh, I didn't realize you had amended the topsoil so well already. So you only need be concerned about the subsoil. If you judge it is too bad for roots to penetrate at all, then amending it might help your roses during the California dry season.

I would treat the topsoil and subsoil separately rather than mixing them. Remove the topsoil from the rose holes, reserve it in a pile, and use a pick to break up the subsoil into chunks. Add some manure and compost and a cup or two of gypsum and mix a bit. Then replace the topsoil so it is uniform across the bed. This is the old technique called "double digging."

I would till the Turface into the topsoil of the whole bed. Again, it is best if the soil is fairly uniform across the area.

I (with a lot of help) will do as you suggest.

I just picked up my 7 new beauties at Regan's. The first were purchased from a friend...NOT A GOOD IDEA. The first 6 looked like weeds compared to these.

I also purchased a good (I think) pair of garden shears, ARS brand. I hope this is a good selection.

I will send photos as soon as all roses are in place.

And thank you all once again.

andrea