Robert, Thank you for update. I love Edible Landscaping and grow two oriental Persimons from them. They are really care free here, very productive and taste really good. Good thing is that JBs don't touch them. The other good trouble free fruit trees here are asian pears, figs and bush cherries. They all can be grown organically and enjoy our climate. All others I tried were really not so easy. Birds, JBs or other creatures and diseases make them more difficult. Good luck with your new adventure.
Olga

Robert, I loved reading your update. I was just reading about the types of figs and blueberries that do well here and wishing I had room. Your clematis will be fine. Throw some fertilizer on them after you cut them back. If you are interested in tropical gardening, have you added any Gingers yet? I love them and they have returned reliably here. I look forward to seeing photo's of your seedlings when they bloom and hearing how the propagation goes in your greenhouse.

Carol

I apreciate the update Robert. I'm glad to hear you are doing so many interesting things. It's exciting about the seedlings. Most years I grow a few. I used to grow that lotus. Our fickle weather can cause problems with them. I think if I had a larger bed that got well established they'd have a better chance. You can see easily why it is a holy flower in India.

Wow Robert, you've been busy! It shows how passionate you are about gardening, and not just with roses. I think the longer you garden, the more you want to get into propagation. I've been wanting to try my hand at pollination and starting new seedlings. The thought of creating a "new" rose is exciting! It does take patience however, and lots of room for experimenting. Once those babies take root, will you have a bed ready to grow them on? It can take a few years to realize the first blooms, but what delicious anticipation! Even if you never go on to patent and market your baby, the satisfaction is enormous. And you get to name it!

Edible landscaping is a great endeavor, but I agree with Olga, since I don't spray it can be challenging. I used to have fruit trees in my rose beds, but fungus and insects left no fruit to enjoy. I've just gotten back into vegetable gardening after many years away from it. I like the idea of using veggies as ornamentals in the mixed border - it all started when squash started appearing one summer after I spread my compost. I let them go and ended up having yellow squash growing up into Westerland - pretty, and tasty!

I've missed you Robert. Thanks for the update on what is going on with you. It sounds as if you are making the most of your summer! Please stay in touch with us.

Kathy

Wonderful!!! In case you didn't already know, though, persimmons absolutely are NOT ready to eat until they physically fall from the tree all by themselves. So don't be put-off if you pick one to taste and it is disgusting...it just isn't ready, yet!

I've been wondering where you were Robert----Thanks for the update----

You have really been busy--

Lucky you with a greenhouse waiting for you when you moved in.---That opens up a whole new world of gardening.

Please keep posting so we know your progress.

Florence

Greenhaven,
It all depends on the sort of persimmon. Some types of oriental persimmon are non-astringent. Jiro or Ich Ke Kei Jiro, for example can be eaten when they are still firm just from the tree, like apples. Bot of these are available at EL. It all depends on what varietied Robert got. I grow non-astrinent types and they are delicious very early, don't have to wait when they fall from the tree.
Olga

Robert, you have brought up a topic I'm dying to get into. I want to do edible landscaping too, I pine over Edible Landscaping Online's website!

There was a passage in a George Eliot book, Adam Bede, I think that had the best description of a country garden with fruit and flowers EVERYWHERE. I was like " that's what I want to do!"

I have three blueberry bushes myself, one hasn't grown so well, so I'm going to move it. The other two are great and have a little bit of fruit right now. I just got a raspberry plant too. Not sure of the hybrid and still need to plant it, but that's about what we have. I planted pumpkins in my new garden bed, I thought the idea to have flowers and pumpkins would be cool.

There are some American persimmons on my campus and they are incredibly astringent. Very, very tall too. I'm sure hybrids, like Olga said, are better.

Olga, which Asian pears and figs do the best for you? Our nursery I believe sells Brown Turkey figs, but that's about it. I like the look of their leaves, I assume they make really pretty small trees?

Wow...what wonderful responses. I've enjoyed reading all of them.

Let me say that I have two oriental persimons: one astringent, one non astringent. The astringent one is called Smith's and was found in Culpeper, VA. The other is a variety similar (or the same) that Olga mentioned Ichi Ki Jiro (or something like that).

I'm hoping to get some fruit on all my choices. I'll be creating a walk-in bird proof environment for them using that commoon black netting. I don't need to do that yet though.

I think I'll be creating an entire rose garden devoted to roses that I propagate from seeds. We've got another property with about three acres of full sun. This will truly be a "test" garden as I won't be giving the roses much care and supplemental water..only the tough will make it there. That's the plan, anyhow. Who knows, I'll probably end up giving them away to visitors.

I can thank Connie (Hartwood...) for the new "fig" development. I've always loved figs and thoroughly enjoyed the fig I had in my yard when I lived in the city (before I moved to the country after the new city ordinance regarding livestock in the city...another story)...but, the fig I moved with me never did well here. Anyhow, these are the varieties I'm trying: Alma, Celeste, Brown Turkey, Black Mission, Violette de Bardoux, Marseilles, Panache, Conadria, Galbun, and Petit Negri.

Olga, btw, the Nigella is starting to bloom now. Thanks so much for those seeds. Will they self seed? I almost walked out of EL with an Asian pear too...next trip.

Max, we've had some kiwi, grapes, and a variety of fruit trees on the property for some time...I don't know what inspired me all of a sudden to get more into edible landscaping. I'm eager to get my cinderblock wall built which will surround a large part of my immediate backyard...and I'll be adding many varieties of fruit trees espaliered onto the wall. I think it's the teacher in me that wants to be such a control freak!...or some inner yearnings to be a monk.

I'm sorry about the lotus..I didn't think you could kill it.

Carol, I do have some gingers... The year before last year was the year of gingers...I found a wonderful nursery near Norfolk that had wonderful gingers for really cheap...huge plants literally busting the pots..Of course I came home with a half a dozen. So far they are all coming back nicely but I didn't get any flowers last year. I think they need to develop more of a clump perhaps. I added a variegated ginger this year..but, I am keeping part of this to bring inside in case it doesn't overwinter. Any advice on growing gingers would be greatly appreciated (sun/shade requirements, moisture?, fertilizer, etc...) I was treating them like cannas, but I think the gingers want less sun than cannas..

Kathy, I'm off for the summer...When can I come for a visit?

Florence, I was very interested in the greenhouse when I found the place 10 years ago, but so many other projects took precedence..now, I'm using it, and I'm loving it so far.
Well, that's it for now.. I hope I didn't leave anyone out

Robert, that was an inspiring update! I'm going to stash your post to re-read when I have time to consider some of the new possibilities you mentioned. I've never seen a lotus plant, and it seems like many of your passersby haven't, either - so that must be some real excitement for the "countr" folk. I'm glad you got over to see Randy one last time. We just never could get there, and I'll miss our infrequent visits. Randy was a really entertaining guy.

Lila

Robert, I really enjoyed reading your "What I Do on My Summer Vacation" update - it's always fun to hear all the things you're trying. I like your idea of espaliering fruit trees on a wall - post pics of your projects if you can - Gean

Nigella will reseed happily.
I grow only two figs because of space limitations, but my sister grows many here, also hers are more mature, my are just babies. It is her example that moved me toward trying figs, I didn't realise before that they are so easy here. The best for here here are Celeste, White Marseilles, Violette de Bourdeaux, Brown Turkey. She doesn't winter protect them at all. First couple years thay had serious winter dieback but grew back nicely, each year stronger and stronger. After first two years they became big enough and don't have any dieback now. They grew into beautiful small trees with tonns of fruits every year. Her figs are probably 8 year old now. I have White Marseilles and some rare italian one (don't remember the name now). I also didn't protect them during last winter (which was the first) and they both are happy now even have some fruits on them.
Olga

Well, talk about enabling I just ordered a Celeste fig and a flying dragon orange. That website is so tempting, that is I hope the same place you were talking about..the name is certainly the same. That's fantastic to hear about figs Olga, I've been intrigued by them at our nursery, so I'll give it a shot. Since I bought a small one, I'll most definitely winter protect though, leaf litter in a tomato cage.

Robert, you'll have so much fun with those seedlings, I was SO disappointed that none of my seedlings survived this year. However, my sole Queen Elizabeth seedling from last year is doing quite well. She's sending up a second flower for this year, quite exciting to see any differences. Her last one had pink/red stamens!

Hey Robert! Maybe you'll have some really nice roses to offer all of us for sale someday.

I recently bought 5 blueberry bushes to plant. I just need to figure out where I am going to put them. I'm thinking they'll be mingling with the roses.

I need to buy some acreage somewhere!

Sandy

Robert, it's exciting to hear this new twist in your adventures... edible landscaping has always been a passion of mine, too (I've been ordering from EL since I was pretty young! :). Some may not pardon me for saying so, but pawpaws are quite possibly one of the very finest fruits on earth, and you're really going to enjoy them if you've never had the pleasure of eating one. I've been wanting to visit the nursery in person for a long time, but it's still a hike for me to get out to Afton. Have fun with your new edible pets!

I'll be glad to post some photos. I'll try taking some today. The lotus are definitely worth the garden space.

I realized I forgot to mention another fig: Hardy Chicago. There are probably more that I've forgotten.

Max, I've got a hardy orange...not sure if it's the variety flying dragon. I found it at the Monticello nursery. I planted it last summer, and it's doing quite well. It's incredibly thorny. I'm not sure How I'll shape it for my garden..It may need to go somewhere that it can do it's own thing.

Stefan, EL is such a cool place. It's great to see these plants growing in their specimen gardens...kiwis with trunks as big as thighs!...pretty big! The persimons are so incredibly beautiful...I wonder why they're not used in landscaping....perhaps because of the potential mess of the fruit?

Duchesse, I have a wonderful little book with a very detailed, step by step guide to espaliering. It's in a book called The Complete Book of Topiary by Barbara Gallup & Deborah Reich. It has sections on portable topiary, standards, mock topiary, framemaking, ivy training, espalier, knot gardens, verdant sculpture, hedgecraft. It's like espalier/topiary for dummies. I think I'll make a giant rooster out of some type of shrub...do I have too much time on my hands? I think I just like trying new things.

Sandy, I'd love to share some of these seedlings with my rose friends...if any turns out to have some promise.

Olga, I really need to thank you for the inspiration for starting roses from seeds. I wouldn't have thought to do it. You've opened a door to a new endeavor.

Lila, I hope we can get together soon. Are you anywhere near Smithfield?

Robert

Another thank you for an inspiring update!

We will all miss Randy, tho he says he will be open for visits. I saw him in late May--came home with 36 roses and assorted other stuff.

Speaking of edibles, has anyone tried tea trees?

Robert, my gingers get sun most of the day with the exception of late afternoon. I water them when I water the rest of the plants and roses in the garden, about once a week. I don't think I have ever fertilized them. They spread very quickly and I am always digging some up and giving them away! Mine bloom in late summer usually. I only have two varieties, a peach colored one and a white one. Brian sent them to me and told me the names but I "forgot" :-) I love the fragrance.

Carol

Carol, I believe one is Butterfly Ginger and the other maybe Shampoo Ginger.
Robert, your garden sounds so interesting with the many different plants and trees. You are an inspiration to me. Thanks for the update.

Carla

Thanks for the update and congrats with all your successes. You must have a very high energy level. I couldn't possibly keep up with all the the running, hard physical labor and other chores that have to go into what you do. Even motivation and enthusiasm will only carry me so far.

I don't want to beat the subject to death, but just spent some energy and money setting up Jap beetle traps, nothing is simple for me, 2 trips to 1 store and 1 trip to another before I had what I needed and got them set up right (the darn bait packet would't open and had to go back, and the sales lady did it for me (acting a little abrupt and annoyed where it was obvious I had read the instructions and gotten one all assembled properly except for that). I shouldn't have said how nice people there always treat me lol. I didn't get ugly or rude about any of it but was kind of frustrated at that point.

Anyway, you must have them in your zone, and you have a zillion roses and counting :-).

How do you handle the Japanese Beetle problem or is it an issue where you live? I would think it would be as they seem to be all over the country now but some places worse than others no doubt.

Hi Robert,

A few observations on fruiting plants (as I've been doing such longer than roses).

For no-spray:

Stay away from stone fruit (although you might have some luck with the patio peach - can get that at edible landscaping). Another stone fruit that might work (again, edible has) is the chickasaw plum, though it suckers something terrible.

Blueberries are a good no-spray fruit, though you want to make sure you've got a good acid soil with good drainage (suggestion-work in a lot of well rotted pine needle mulch).

The various ribes are good no-spray, but watch out for local ordinances re: white pine blister rust.

Wineberries (again, at edible) do well in shade, can be practically invasive.

Figs are good, but here you have hardiness issues (brown turkey may not need covering in the winter, depending on how you have it situated, but others probably need protection).

Blackberries are good. There are some raspberries that also might work for you.

Consider the various eleagnus (goumi, autumn olive, trebizond date).

You also may want some seabuckthorn (one male can pollinate up to 8 females-make sure they are of a comparable type).

Aronia (chokeberry) is no-spray; not the best taste in & of itself, but highly nutritious.

Also consider goji and schizandra berries.

And don't be without a mulberry (several if you can)-the local ones you find can be insipid, but there are a number of morus alba with very good flavor.

I'm also trying the pineapple guava - no fruit yet, but has stood up well to its first winter.

Don't forget nuts - where you are both the northern & southern pecans could work. There are also a number of disease resistant filberts that you can train as either bushes or small trees.

Apples can work no spray (if you don't mind various insect attacks), especially if you have a mind to making your own cider?

For my part, I'm thinking of further investigation into edible weeds (I'm partial to dandelion greens); a very overlooked area; as I understand it leafy greens (especially uncultivated) are higher in omega-3s than sardines.

Geo, thanks for all the suggestions. I will definitely keep these in mind. I especially like the comment regarding the pine tags for the blueberries. I'll gather up some of them today and start mulching my blueberries with them. I love mulberries, and I'll consider replacing my scrubby mulberry with a better variety. The figs I saw at EL were huge, and they are in zone that's colder than mine, so I hope mine should do well. I may have some dieback after the first winter, but I hope things will improve after that.

Aliska, I share the philosophy that the JB traps attract even MORE JBs to your yard. I noticed the JBs are in my yard in significant numbers now...yuck

Carol, thanks for the info on the gingers. I'm not sure of all the varieties I have, but I think I do have Buttlerfly ginger and Dr. Moy. I recall those two names.

Robert

I share the philosophy that the JB traps attract even MORE JBs to your yard

I certainly agree, but the few pretty roses that are left blooming now didn't have any on them this morning. There might be some a little later in the day.

But I look at it this way. Obviously they are out there. The more I attract and dispose of, totally yucky as it all is, that means that many fewer to multiply from as far as they are coming in, not that I am attracting them all. It is by no means going to eradicate the whole problem even if people set traps all over town or the country.

Over the long haul, what happens if they get truly out-of-control around the country? After reading the statistics on how many each female can create for more to multiply, approx by the power of 2 depending on the male-female ratio and other variables, over time they will only get worse unless something unexpected turns up. I don't want to think about it. Six weeks or not, that is a lot of beetles for which there are no known natural predators in the US, was trying to find what predators take them out in Japan out of curiosity.

I don't know why they gross me out, did a science project on insects in high school, never saw any Jap beetles, prob not here then (50's). Maybe they wouldn't seem so gross if they weren't so destructive, icky legs and body parts hiding on/in a pretty bloom with holes already eaten in it. Otherwise they are kind of pretty and they don't hurt me (might bite if given the chance, not sure) On one thread, they were even going after rose leaves (and fruit trees) unless it was another insect pest that did that horrid damage in the photo. Fortunately I doubt they destroy entire plants unless they weaken them for something else.

I do applaud you on trying to grow in such a manner as to keep the environment safer. That's what I wanted to do. Now I see that a few I'm going to have to spray or get rid of them or never see them bloom unless they get healthier and develop more natural resistance.

If you're still with me, do you happen to grow Bleu Magenta, stumbled across that? It looks prettier in a picture I saw than Veilchenblau if it truly goes to blue/bluish purple.

Robert, good to get your update as well as the post about moving roses in summer and with water they will survive. Have been moving my roses to NY and all are doing well ( thought I had lost Baby Love but last trip up, the green canes had finally sprouted lots of new leaves.) I think my secret weapon is my great nephew whom my sister pays to water almost daily LOL.
With all your predilections for plant addictions, Robert, I HATE TO MENTION IT, LOL, but there is an excellent fig forum on GW- one can spend hours on it- I think they are just as bad as us rose people LOL. You will love eating the oriental persimmons- had them in Italy, would buy 3-4 freshly picked from the neighboring farms and would figure one a day and before you know it ----yummy. You will enjoy them. Have been thinking about paw paws too- have never tasted one. I believe they are untroubled by disease. Glad to hear Stefan's endorsement of their tsste. Yes, blueberries love a nice mulch of pine needles. Bought a Chicago Hardy fig on sale at Lowe's and it is still in its pot and only about 1 foot high and I saw about 7 figs on it; Connie's fig plants are doing well and growing and I moved them both to larger pots.
Your post has drawn a lot of nice responses- I think we are all just plain gardeners at heart and just love to grow (and play in the earth as it were). Nice to raise your own vegetables; one can't beat the taste.
An old quote I read in a book once on growing flowers and vegetables.
"Flowers make us humble, and vegetables make us proud."
Jim, HI EVERYBODY

Aliska, I do have Bleu Magenta...I've got it in my circular arched structure with the other "blue" ramblers.. It's too soon to comment on it. I can say it will need a couple of clematis to hide naked legs.

Jim,

I have found the fig forum. I was at some friends last night and saw their fig tree...absolutely amazing...they don't know what kind it is though. btw..the roses you gave me are still doing great...especially Compassion.

Robert

Thanks, Robert. It might do the same if I try to grow it as a large shrub, something to think about. Naked legs. Only my naked ladies are allowed to have those :-)

Enjoyed the other discussion, don't want to succumb to envy, but we can't grow but a little of all you can. Figs in pots, not much fun and choice. Some of the edibles I hadn't heard of. From the photos you posted that I've seen, I couldn't tell your property is as large as it sounds.

Aliska,

I've got about 2.5 acres. About .5 acre is a bass pond, and about .25 acres is wetlands. I'm learning to take advantage of every inch of it. Gradually I'm getting rid of "garbage" trees to make room for some more interesting specimens. It's not a whole lot of property, but, at this time it is a lot of fun. We also have another property with about 3.5 acres of almost all full sun. I've had difficulty getting things established out there because someone was doing us a favor by weedwacking the new plants to the ground...but, I have hope. The other property will be my test ground for my rose seedlings.

You're right, we, in zone 7, have many options of plants to grow.

Robert

Robert,
I think blueberries can take and like moist soils; check it out; might be a good use of your wetlands. I had planted some blueberry bushes toward the back of our property in NY on swampy land which had been filled in. My niece, who lived in the house much later mentioned to me recently how she and her husband would go out and pick a handful of blueberries every day when they were in season. They are supposed to be LOADED with antioxidants by the way.
Robert, a word of caution, LOL, there are hundreds of varieties of fig trees so be warned my friend,ROFLOL. I see another addiction beginning ;-). Can't remember the latin but often think of the old church teaching, "Virtue lies in the middle way."
Just teasing,
Jim