roses for morning shade, afternoon sun

bart_2010

12 years ago

Hi, everybody. I have this spot in my garden-a very prominent one- that tends to have shade in the morning, and the roasting Italian south-west sun in the afternoon. NOT ideal conditions for roses, or perhaps any plant! I just dug up a large plant of Lens's Patricia Beucher which I had growing there. This rose was growing vigorously and healthy,but did not flower much,and seeing on the Lens site that it is listed as wanting full sun, I assumed that the placement was wrong. Now I am not so sure: on digging it up, I discovered that the soil was patheticly dry,clearly incapable of absorbing and retaining any moisture. So, the first thing that will happen is that I'll work on the soil A LOT. But what to plant there, once the soil has been improved? Since P. Beucher did indeed "tolerate" this site ,and it isn't even supposed to be particularly shade tolerant, I think it's worth trying roses there again,but this time looking for ones that are known to be shade tolerant. I've been checking on HelpMeFind,the Lens site, and also the Peter Beales site (if a rose tolerates shade in England, it should certainly do so here in Italy, I'd think!) and I've come up with the following list of possibilities:
Purple Skyliner
Sir Paul Smith
Narrow Water
Lavender Lassie
Perennial Blue
Reine des Violettes
Mme Isaac Pereire
Laguna
Excellenz Von Schubert
Rosengarten Zweibrucken

Do any of you grow these roses successfully in shade? And how about Stormy Weather (here sold as Princess Sibilla of Luxembourg) and Night Owl? Any other suggestions? I'm looking for mauves, violets,deep, cool pinks,deep,cool purple reds...thanks, bart

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bart_2010
Original Author

12 years ago

O, I think it probably gets at least 6 hours of sun; it changes during the course of the year, but here in summer the days are SO long...now is probably the time of the year when that area is at it's shadiest,and I'd still say that even now it's getting 4-5 hours of sun, and that is probably an exaggeratedly modest estimate (i.e., could well be more like 6).I'm glad to hear that this doesn't sound like too bad of an area to you two... Jackie,what are some of the roses that you grow successfully in your garden, and how many hours of sun does yours get? Zack, I thought of the disease resistance issue (I am going no-spray) and for this reason did not put Zephirine Drouhin in that area,since though it's supposed to be shade-tolerant, it also can have disease issues. This is one reason I'm thinking Laguna. I have one plant of that, and it has no disease issues at all,plus, on HMF, I seem to remember that someone in Germany grows it in only afternoon sun, and said it does very well,and once again , if it tolerates shade well in Germany, it ought to do fine here in Italy...
Another couple I forgot to mention...Joasine Hanet and Jasmina. JH gets an "excellent" shade tolerance rating on HMF,but Jasmina is not rated...thank for your comments! bart

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Comments (6)

jacqueline9CA
12 years ago
It does not really sound as if your spot is "in shade" if it gets afternoon sun. How many hours of sun per day would you estimate? I live in a similar climate to yours in No California. My entire front garden gets morning shade and afternoon sun.

I have different tastes in colors than you do, but I can tell you that i have china roses, tea roses, and hybrid musks which are all fine with this situation. I agree that your problem was probably lack of water. I would amend the soil, make sure the rose gets adequate water, and put a nice layer of mulch around it.

Jackie
zack_lau z6 CT ARS Consulting Rosarian
12 years ago
In our climate, it helps a great deal if the rose is either disease resistant, or sprayed for fungal diseases.

It is common for plants to be wet in the morning due to condensation--with morning shade, those plants will have wet leaves for many hours each day...
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User
12 years ago
Hi Bart, I grow Lavender Lassie in a spot that gets some sun in early spring, but once the trees leaf out it is in pretty Stygian shade all the rest of the season (May-October). It grows as a big sprawly shrub and blooms beautifully (big flush) in spring. No bloom after, however. I'm trying a baby LL in a sunnier spot, to see if I get re-bloom, though others on this forum have told me LL is basically a once-bloomer even in sun. My only hesitation about LL in your conditions is that the flowers might kind of bleach out in the afternoon sun. One of my MIPs is in a rather shady spot, and does ok - not as well as the ones in sun (smaller plant, fewer flowers, a bit more BS) but ok. I have a recommendation for your spot - how about Carefree Beauty/Katy Road Pink? I have multiple specimens of this rose in various conditions: full sun, shade, partial shade with major root competition from trees, a too-small container, etc etc etc. Nothing seems to bother this rose - they all bloom well (the one in shade is a bit leggier and blooms a bit less than the others, but still) and are healthy and trouble free. If you are ok with once-bloomers, Constance Spry and Himmelsauge are ones that I grow in shade that do quite well, and I bet they wouldn't mind afternoon sun. Anyway, good luck with this problem spot!
jacqueline9CA
12 years ago
Bart, it sounds to me as if your spot gets plenty of sun. Roses are not allergic to shade, they just need enough sun .

To answer your question, I have happy bushes of the tea roses Safrano, Josehp Schwartz, Susan Louise, and Mrs Dudley Cross; and the china rose Cramoisi Superior (or some other similar red china) loves it there. Also the hybrid musk Pax, the rambler Dawson's Apple Blossom, and the hybrid multiflora de la Grifferaie, and the polyantha Little White Pet. In my garden these all get less sun in the afternoon than you describe, and morning shade

The best repeat bloomers of the above list in these conditions are the tea and china roses.

Jackie
bart_2010
Original Author
12 years ago
Thanks, forum maties! bart