Campanulas, my dear. a diverse range of short, medium and tall longflowering hardy perennials which will do well where you are and enhance any rose plantings.

I would suggest Jacques Cartier, Leda, Cottage Maid (Vibert one), Fantin-Latour, Louise Odier, Mme Knorr, even Mme Isaac Pereire and her sports. Most of these won't require that much of pampering even in z4. :)

As for companions, as mentioned, campanulas, siberic iris are nice, peonies, malvas, foxgloves, echinacea's, daylilies, delfiniums for the higher background, phlox (comes in wide range of colors and height).

Campunala- Thank you for the suggestion. I had some a couple years ago but, they disappeared on me. I think it may have been the rabbits so, I might try them again.

Elemire - I looked up all your suggestions on HMF. They are all gorgeous. Thank you so much. I have many months before I can actually plant my garden so, I'm hoping I might get more options to ponder over the long winter.

Thank you,
Kitty

Jacques Cartier and/or Comte de Chambord are two very pretty roses with lilac pink tones that I think would look good with your two choices. You picked two beautiful Austin roses.

Ingrid

Kitty, there are quite some roses that can overwinter well even in z4, you might want to look up some albas (Queen of Denmark for example), damasks, gallicas, centifolias, moss roses (William Lobb does very well in my parents garden), setigera hybrids (Himmelsauge for example gets pretty big in z5). There also are Canadian explorer series, which are as well very hardy (for example Cuthbert Grant, Prairie Joy).

Kitty, I think Ingrid's suggestion of Comte de Chambord has the kind of cool pink that would go well with WS2000 and YL. There are a few moderns that would go well with them, such as Ebb Tide and Heirloom. A fascinating choice that could work is Sharifa Asma because it provides a contrast that creates interest. Good luck and hopefully you will get some more good suggestions.

Juliet

Hi, Kitty. I do believe you need to review the list of roses sold by Sam Kadem Nursery. You will have a better chance of choosing roses that are hardy in Minnesota. It's so much more fun if you don't have to make a major commitment to winter protection strategies.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sam Kadem Nursery roses

I have Sister Elizabeth next to Young Lycidas and it looks great. Young Lycidas' blooms are bigger than Sister Elizabeth but it blooms constantly and the color is a nice contrast.

Hi Ingrid, I was so happy to see your reply as, I enjoyed the pictures of your garden so much. I'm wondering if you can tell me the differences between Jacques Cartier and Comte de Chambord. In the pictures I've seen, they seem somewhat similiar. Thank you, Kitty

Elemire,
I appreciate your concern over my zone problem. I have a thing with 'the grass is always greener' issue. I think all the once bloomers you've suggested are gorgeous but, I think I really need to have more repeaters 1st. I do have Cuthbert Grant and a few other hardy roses but, it seems the ones I desire are the ones I have to work for. ON a positive note, it sounds like the repeaters you mentioned won't need a ton of winter protection and I like them very much. Thank you, Kitty

Juliet, I have Ebb Tide and didn't consider it because for some reason it is happier in a pot here. Heirloom is for sure going next to either William or Falstaff. I bought Falstaff and Heirloom this year and, just by chance had them sitting in pots together and they look very good together. I'm impressed you automatically knew that. Sharifa is an interesting option. I think she is very pretty. I read somewhere her repeat wasn't that good. What do you think ?

Berndoodle,
I agree. Not having back and butt cramps twice a year from burying and unburying roses would be great. However, I'm still crazy enough to do it. If I could just get everything to look the way I want. I looked at Sam Kedem's list again and there are plenty of roses suggested here on his list. I would definitely purchase from him 1st if, he has what I'm looking for.
Thanks, Kitty

Rosecorgis,
There aren't a lot of pictures of Sister Elizabeth on HMF. Do you by any chance have one? From the pictures I saw, she is pretty and I don't think having smaller blooms is a bad thing especially if there's a lot of rebloom.
Thank you, Kitty

I have some more I'm considering but, since I can't see them in person, I'm wondering if you have any opinions on these:

Spirit of Freedom
Heritage
The generous gardener
Charles Rennie Mackintosh
St. Cecilia

Thank you all so much, you've been very helpful,
Kitty

Heritage is nice, although somewhat bleak in color - but still a good rose. The Generous Gardener I saw only grown as climber and did not get impressed by it, too generic peachy-pinkish-whitish, also seems to be a bit sickly in our climate.

From Austins I also have Alnwick Castle - rather bright pink and has raspberry fragrance, also repeat is very good. I got it as replacement for Heritage and imho it was a trade off for a better rose.

While I do realize that you are perfectly willing to do winter protection, it is pleasant to also have choices that do not require it. You will have plenty to do in your garden without babying it. And even if you plant a few tender favorites, you will benefit if the rest of your garden is as tough as it is beautiful. If as time goes on you find that winter protection begins to seem like a chore, then your whole garden will not die if you skip it one busy year.

In addition to the nursery Berndoodle suggested to you, you might take a look at the offerings at High Country Roses. For the most part their roses are hardy and cold tolerant. Even here in balmy California I have grown roses they offer.

I also heartily recommend a book called Hardy Roses: An Organic Guide to Growing Frost- and Disease-Resistant Varieties by Robert Osborne. It is out of print but readily available as a used book from Amazon or ABE books online. There were two editions, the original published in 1991 (which I have) and an expanded edition published in 2001. I cannot imagine myself planting a rose garden in zone 4 without at least consulting this book, but then I am a book person.

You might also look around and see if you can lay your hands on a copy of Roses for the North: Performances of Shrub and Old Garden Roses at the Minnesota Landscape Arbotetum published by the University of Minnesota in 2002. I think it is also out of print, but available from time to time from the online used book vendors. It is more charts and text, and less picture, than the Osborne book.

Best wishes for a beautiful garden that brings you great pleasure.

Rosefolly

Here is a link that might be useful: High Country Roses

Kitty, Sharifa Asma has very good repeat and is free-flowering for the most part. By the way, I'm glad your considering Spirit Of Freedom. It's a beauty and has just the right shade of pink to fit in with your scheme. Celeste from NH in zone 5 has it and it does fabulously for her.

Juliet

This is a photo of Spirit Of Freedom from Celeste in NH

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I'm glad you liked my garden Kitty. Marchesa Bocella (also known as Jacques Cartier) has a more fluffy, blowsy bloom while Comte de Chambord's bloom has a more circular, contained appearance. Both of them have a "high-shouldered appearance, meaning that the leaves begin directly under the blooms.

I have Sister Elizabeth and love the blooms, which are a beautiful lilac-pink and by no means small, I would say about average. I'll see if I can find a photo from my garden pictures. It's a low-growing rose, quite a few small thorns, but the color is one I wouldn't want to do without.

Ingrid

I found a picture of Sister Elizabeth and got carried away and added a few more roses for you to look at. Sister Elizabeth is more of a lilac pink and actually prettier than the picture shows but it's the only one I have.

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Harlow Carr

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Sister Elizabeth

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International Herald Tribune

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Mme. Cornelissen

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Bishop's Castle

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Wife of Bath

Ingrid

I thought I'd bump this to the top since I'm not sure anyone noticed that I added pictures.

Ingrid

Your garden and photos are so special Ingrid, that I am going to bump this up again to make sure they are seen on this post. Sister Elizabeth looks like a very pretty thing. I might be able to find a spot for a little treasure like her. :)

Juliet

Thank you Juliet, how sweet of you. I did want Kitty to see at least Sister Elizabeth and thought she might check out the other ones but apparently she hasn't been back on this thread.

I know you've said your garden isn't very large but this rose does seem to be one of the small Austins.

Ingrid

I love them all, Ingrid, but I really, really love Bishop's Castle. What a luscious color and shape. Thanks for posting them.

Sherry

Hi Ingrid,

I did see your gorgeous pictures. I was up at 4:00AM yesterday and was busy all day. I got home at 8:30PM, put the groceries away, got the kids in bed and thought I would just take a peek here. I was so pleasantly surprised; I spent a 1/2 hour replying. Apparently, I was a little tired because my reply seems to have disappeared. I will try this again.

Ingrid,

Thank you sooooooooooooooo much. Your flowers and garden are gorgeous!!! It looks like Harlow Carr is more lilac than Sister Elizabeth. Is that right? I think I have spots for both of them. Do you prefer one over the other? In the 3rd picture, are those all International Herald Tribune? It's just beautiful. I even wish I could have the hanging fruit from your tree. I guess I like droopy, hangy things. (You'll have to excuse my writing; I'm still in a sleep deprived state). I have never heard of Mme. Cornelissen. I will definitely look her up as, I need some light colors and, she is very pretty. I saw a picture of Bishop's Castle with Falstaff and fell in love. Then, I saw a couple of pictures of Bishop's Castle that were just o.k. Now that I've seen yours, I'm completely sold. I like your Wife of Bath. It is even prettier than in DA's catalogue.

Thank you again for taking the time to send these pictures and give advice. Your garden is amazing as is the gardener.
Kitty

Juliet,
Thank you very much for the picture of Spirit of Freedom. There's no doubt I will have to get at least one of that beauty. It sounds like Sharifa Asma is a candidate as well.
Thankyou also for taking the time to help me.
Gratefully,
Kitty

Rosefolly,
I appreciate you recommendations. I will check out High Country Roses. I will look into the 1st book you suggested as well. Not that I don't like to read but, when it comes to roses, I have to have some pictures. I will consider your and Berndoodle's advice regarding my zone. I will consider it even more when I'm burying my roses.
Thank you,
Kitty

Elemire,
I have to admit that I bought 2 Heritage roses this year but I haven't seen them bloom yet. I hope I like them. Do you think Eden would be better than The GG? Or, do you have something else you would recommend over it? I checked out your Alnwick Castle; it looks and sounds like a good one.
Thank you for your help,
Kitty

Eglantyne and Sharifa Asma are wonderful Austins in a cold zone, outstanding fragrance and blooming. Bishop's Castle is another wonderful rose.

Marchessa Boccella is a superb rose, a real winner here. the fragrance is excellent. (It might be the same rose as Jacques Cartier...)

Sydonie is another great antique rose, excellent blooming, fragrance, and easy to grow.

Thank you Sherry, Bishop's Castle is one of my favorites too, and it's very fragrant. I must say it doesn't do so well in my dry heat, but I just look forward to cooler days in this instance.

Kitty, I no longer have Harlow Carr since it absolutely did not like the heat even though I love the look of it. This rose is recommended by Austin for cooler climates and I think it would be a winner for you. I have a slight preference for Harlow Carr since it's a more mannerly bush but, despite the pictures, Sister Elizabeth is a deeper lilac. In a cooler zone I personally would have both. In the third picture IHT is the rose in the front and the one on the left is a side shot of Bishop's Delight. The roses on that bush always face toward the walkway. Mme. Cornelissen is a sport of Souvenir de la Malmaison and I love her unique shape and the delicate color, and she's a great rebloomer for me.

I'm sorry you lost your first reply. That's happened to me at least twice lately and is rather annoying. I'm glad the pictures were helpful to you. Keep us posted and let us know which roses you finally decided on.

Ingrid

It would be interesting to see a picture of your patio to see what size roses would work there. One thing I've been doing is getting the little miniature roses from the store and tucking them in by the big roses. They are not grafted and usually come back to bloom after the main flush. I'm finding the ones that repeat bloom later than the June bloomers, to increase my season, though I don't really get a repeat here. They are usually short and small here.
You might consider Chloris, which is thornless. Nice cabbagy blooms on that one. and thornless is a good consideration by a patio where lots of people congregate.
I don't winter protect, though I think I'm going to start. It's just as much work to prune in the spring as to winter protect in the fall.

Here is a link that might be useful: Chloris

Krista,
I'm so glad to see that the roses I'm considering do well in our zone. I was thinking of getting a few Marchessa Boccella and trimming them to tree form. My husband thinks that there will be too much die back for me to do this. What do you think? How tall will they get?
Thank you,
Kitty

Hi Ingrid,
I looked up Bishop's Delight on HMF and found nothing. Where can I find it? I think It's shape is really nice and the blooms look quite large in your picture.
Thank you again for all your help,
Kitty

Kaylah,
I may be lucky enough to have a photo of the patio this year. My husband is sick enough of the sand pit I created and my complaining that, he has called in the family reinforcements. Next Sat. I should have most of my patio completed (fingers crossed). The garden on the outside of the patio can be as large as looks good. I love cabbagy blooms. I'm avoiding once bloomers as of now since, My garden needs more blooms throughout the season. Once I've accomplished that goal, I will look at all the gorgeous once bloomers. If I didn't winter protect I wouldn't be able to have my favorite roses. I think it's worth it.
Thanks,
Kitty

Marchesa has very little dieback here, grows to form a 4 X 4 shrub, approximately. It has a rounded, shrubby, and twiggy growth habit. In the spring I prune it back a bit to shape it.

Marchesa Boccella

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Bishop's Castle is not yet available on the Austin website, but Regan Nursery sells it.

I love this rose, great fragrance and wonderful blooms.

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Oops, I goofed, but Krista gave the correct name as Bishop's Castle. I thought I got this rose from Austin in Texas but if it's not available there I might have purchased it from a local nursery. My memory obviously leaves something to be desired.

Krista, your pictures are gorgeous!

Ingrid

Wow! Krista, your roses are very beautiful. It's going to be very hard to wait to start this garden. I guess I need some time to plan it out though.

Ingrid, No problem. I've been known to goof a time or too also and, not always just with my memory.

Thank you all so, so much. I'm not exactly certain how I'm going to put the garden together yet but, you've given me a lot of great ideas. It would have taken me a long time to find all these beautiful roses and I would have second guessed probably over and over which ones would look good together. If I don't send a picture sooner, I will definitely take some during the process of putting the garden together.
Thanks again,
Kitty