I have 3 MACs, but they are all growing up buildings and/or trees - I have never tried to control them. It might take a lot of constant work to keep one on a trellis - if left to itself, it might climb over the fence, up the trellis, and up any nearby trees or buildings. Here is one of mine - the bottom of the picture is the top of our garage. So, this MAC is planted in the ground, climbed up 10 feet to the top of the garage, spread out, then jumped over to the neighbors pine tree, and climbed up it. My DH estimates that the highest booms you can see in this pic are 30 feet off the ground.

Jackie

P.S. OOPS - it would not let me post the pic - I will try on a separate post.

I couldn't post the original pic I was talking about, because GW said it was too big. Here is one I took at the same time - I was standing on the top of our garage. The only difference is that this one does not show the blooms way way up the pine tree.

Jackie

I can attest from a colder zone that MAC gets huge, even for me in zone 5. You're between my zone and Jackie's, but I'm sure MAC would have longer canes than 15' once mature. The nice thing about her is that she has pretty flexible canes in general. I have mine at the far left end of a bay window in full sun and she drapes over about 6 feet of space horizontally to end up in the branches of a large elderberry bush. One way you could keep her manageable is to plant her on one side of what sounds like a free-standing trellis, then tie her canes horizontally and either zig-zag them on each side of the trellis or let them drape over the top and fall over the side. I wouldn't worry about your neighbors having most of the show - there will be plenty of MAC for both sides.

One caution - at least in my zone, she's almost exclusively a spring/early summer once bloomer. She was well established and very happy this spring, but I haven't seen a bloom since mid-June. I think she'd provide a good screen and some shade as you say for the other roses, but she'd be more of a green backdrop if she performs similarly for you. You'd always have the option to add a clematis or two for color, which would fill in between the blank spots as well. Just make sure your trellis is STURDY, as the combination could take down a 15' trellis in a heartbeat if not.

Cynthia

Ok. Great information you all. I'm not sure why I read "reliable" books that tell me she blooms all summer. What is up with that?
And then I read of folks getting three flushes out of Zephirine Drouhin?
Oh well.
Jackie, I remember your stories of MAC...I hope mine does as well. How often does yours bloom?
Cynthia,
On the other side of the fence are well established 8 ft HUGE oakleaf hydrangeas. She could drape and meander through them.
Zigzagging the canes is a great idea. I will make sure the support is very sturdy and sister it to the fence too.
And adding a clematis is a great idea.
Thanks you all!
Susan

My mature MACs bloom in flushes starting in Jan/Feb and continuing through December (the blooms are smaller from August on, but still there). No doubt has to do with the climate - if we get nighttime temps at or below freezing, it makes the front page of the paper.

Jackie

Somehow Lantana overwintered in the bed closest to my house. Lol.
It is a huge shrub now.
I hope I get spring and fall flushes.
Thanks!
Susan

Nippstress, you grow Madame Alfred Carriere in zone 5 Nebraska? WOW! I know that MAC has a reputation for being hardy for it's class, but that's a class that also includes things like Marechal Niel. Can you imagine trying to grow MN in your zone? Do you get winter die-back? Do you wrap the canes during winter?

Zachary.

My son has a huge MAC which starts life on a tall trellis which is attached to the house walls over an arch of timber. The plant obligingly grows upwards and not too much outwards....at that point......until it reaches the top of the trellis whereupon it fountains out wildly, growing 15-20 feet canes, all along the walls, flinging wayward canes hither and thither but absolutely dripping with a heartbreakingly lovely flush......which, although it lasts about 6 weeks, is pretty much all you get apart from odd scattered blooms with a minor flurry in early September. It grows on a north-facing wall and receives NO direct sun at all, yet manages to have a remarkable June show and also remains free of the great MAC fault - powdery mildew (forcing me to conclude it prefers a deep, cool root run without blistering sun at any time). It is a rather good background for the understorey plants as part of a 'white' garden (it has a bit of an issue with bare legs) but a magnolia stellata and various choisya, paeonia and white thalictrum, amongst others, foam around, matching the frothing above.

Camps that sounds beautiful! I have a spring band that is blooming now and it's lovely. I have a larger plant that I will put on the trellis.
There really is no harm to it going wild once it gets on the trellis...it can climb up and arch over. I'd be more than happy with a 6 week flush and then a disease free screen. Mine is going to be in pretty hot sun (coming from the rear of the trellis).
I'm going to try the band on the front of my house. It's north facing but gets nice filtered western sun.
Susan

Well, it sounds like from Camps and Jackie that MAC is likely to bloom more often for you than it does for me, and if you're OK with it going wild and maybe putting out occasional blooms with healthy foliage, I think you have a winner here.

Zachary - thanks for the encouragement. I was a little reluctant to try a noisette in zone 5, but I'd heard that she was one of the more hardy ones myself. Frankly, I don't do anything to winter protect her here, and she's mostly cane hardy for me. I don't trim her much at all except for the lower branches that die off because they don't get sun. Now, you have to put this in perspective - she's in my zone 6 pocket on the south side of my house, and propped right up against the house to boot, which probably adds another half zone of protection. So you might actually be looking at zone 7a conditions for her, counting a zone and a half up from my 5b.

Still, I am an unrepentant zone pusher, and you really shouldn't have put Marechal Niel in my mind. See, that one is listed hardy down to 6a on HMF, where MAC is listed only to zone 7. Piece of cake, eh? I just might take out the wimpy Fimbriata that's wasting space and give that one a try...nice enabling, Zachary!

I'll post a picture of MAC below in her wild phase to give another view of MAC draping over bushes and things. She's the white one starting beyond the left of the photo playing nicely with Grandmother's Hat and Champlain. Susan, you mentioned having her drape over a mature oakleaf hydrangea and that should have sturdy enough branches to stand the attack. My elderberry bush gets weighed down with the branches, and the whole mess doesn't look neat, but in the spring it's pretty nice. Let me know if you want a better look at the "bare naked" canes now with no blooms, to see the rather messy tangle of floppy branches.

Cynthia

One of my three MACs is on a trellis; one of the other two grows up a wall then leans over a pergola and the other grows up (and up) into a large tree. A trellis can be done (I've been doing it for 10 years now), but it takes some work and ruthless pruning: severely in winter and less so about now. The main task now is to catch the big, waving canes and bend them into place so they won't be too recalcitrant in winter when the main training happens.

The MAC on the trellis is my best bloomer, overall. Huge flush in spring, then always some blossoms the rest of the season, into winter.

Catspa, it's breathtaking!!!!!

Nippstress...I dare you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have MAC growing on a trellis down my driveway that's about 8 ft high and maybe 20 ft long. It's been 3 years, but every winter I just cut her back hard. She blooms well - 2 big flushes in spring and summer, and usually has 1 or 2 odd flowers most of the time. This picture was taken after the flush was over. When she was in full bloom, it was like snow - so many blossoms you could hardly see the leaves! Her foliage makes a nice screen to block out the neighbor's car on the other side.

I've been cutting her back to about 10x10ft because I also grow tomatoes on the trellis, but next year I think I'll just let her run horizontally and take over. Lovely rose, carefree and very vigorous! The first few years I had a lot of mildew, but she seems to be growing out of it.

And here's a closer shot (again, this was when the spring flush was waning).

ed: Ack! Whatever I do, gardenweb seems to post this picture upside down. Sorry about that!

catspa and rabbit rabbit,

I would love a MAC like yours.
From where did you purchase your Mme. Alfred Carriere ?

My MAC has far fewer petals, yours appears more like the photos I've seen of it in books.
I received mine from Pickeringnurseries.com

Thanks, Lux

Hi Luxrosa,

If you're in the SF bay area, I got mine in Fremont, from Regan's nursery. It was a potted plant, but has been very vigorous. I bought a lot of roses from them and so far they have all been quite good. Another good place (although it's quite far away for me) is up near Petaluma - Cottage Gardens nursery. I've had good luck with their roses and their lavender selection is fab!

Lux, the MAC in my photo came own-root from a small nursery on Tilton Road up in Sebastopol about 11 years ago (Hummingbird Hill? The nursery, which featured butterfly and bird plants, closed at some point, I think, but is now maybe back in business, at some level?). Anyway, bought as a root-bound gallon on sale that, once planted, grew at a phenomenal pace.

Great info and photos! Thank you all so much. Can't wait to enjoy watching mine grow.
Susan

The two MACs I saw at the Nixon Library in Yorba Linda were trained as large freestanding shrubs so I think you can do it but be prepared for hours of pruning.

That's going to be a beautiful sight. I hope the neighbors don't get the entire show for all the work your going to do.

You can probably do pretty much anything you want to with MAC, provided you are willing to put in the time. Those of us who have been on GW for a while will remember Luanne ("LA"), no longer active here due to poor health. She grows her MAC as a free-standing shrub. Now that takes a lot of work, particularly in the beginning while the plant is young, but it can be done.
Luanne lives in zone 8b.

Rosefolly

I have looked many times for the old posting I once read where Luanne described her method of pruning MAC as a shrub. I am so sorry to hear she is not well; I have missed her lively additions here. Thanks for mentioning it, Rosefolly.

I have planted MAC at the base of a 15' or so dead Japanese maple tree and am using it as a trellis of sorts. MAC goes up the trunk and main branches and cascades down. I am just planning to prune it back within bounds so it will look like the tree's branches and leaves. There is a purple clematis planted on the other side of the tree trunk. Next year I hope both will bloom more.

I don't know if over the long haul this will be workable or not - live and learn, I guess. Good luck with yours, too, Susan. Gean

Gean, I am feeling the same way you are! C'est la Vie. Que Sera Sera. Nothing ventured nothing gained. What the heck, right?
Let's take photos. I love all the photos shared here.
My "trellis" is a fine example of backyard ingenuity. It consists of 4 5 ft wide panels of pig wire about 10ish feet high with a space of 2ish feet in between each panel. The pig wire is attached to 10 foot rebar and then reinforcing flexible stakes are placed every 2 1/2 feet horizontally. The four panels are then wired together. Then the entirety is wired to fence posts.... I figure strength is all that really matters. Hopefully it will be covered in blossoms and/or foliage.
I would love for you all to expound on "hours of pruning" and "putting in the time". I plan to weave the canes (the pig wire is made of 5" squares in a fan shape).
I guess I will do this late winter and then again for a fall flush?
Thanks!
Susan

It sounds stout enough for MAC, Susan. Just a caveat regarding the weaving.....if, for any reason you have to remove either the plants or the structure, a stark choice involving either destruction of rose or trellis usually has to be made. If possible, I prefer to tie the canes to the outside of the trellis (or fence) rather than using the trellis itself to support the plant by intermingling branches. Depending on the material used, weaving can scar the canes through rubbing against unforgiving metal, wire or timber while a soft tree tie will support the canes without causing damage. I must agree though, fan shape could be quite spectacular and may go some way towards preventing the bare leg syndrome.

Camps, I hear ya! You are right about weaving. The wire will be too rough and I should tie in. Particularly because there may be some issues with wind in this area.
I'm wondering how many basals I can expect? Will there be mostly flowering on laterals and sublaterals?
I have found when I am putting canes on a trellis to fan them out that I tend to pull them too low and place them too close together. How much space do I need horizontally between canes? Any idea?
Thank you!
Susan

Some roses are really good at staying in a two-dimensional space - even really vigorous ones such as Mermaid and New Dawn....but MAC is, in my experience, not really one of them. It is quite wilful and will throw canes from various points and directions.But, as has been mentioned, secateurs are never far from my holster in the vicinity of MAC and even during midsummer, it is perfectly OK to be ruthless, chopping wayward canes with alacrity if they fail to stay in bounds - my son does his 3 times across the year to prevent his entire tiny front garden being overtaken.
As for placing canes - well, they will grow as they grow and initially at least, the canes do have some flexion - not as much as a wichurana but still bendable so get them as low as you can and don't worry too much about placing them too closely - although with MAC, I rely more on having different lengths of canes, rather than training and bending, keeping some really quite short in order to alleviate bare legs....but that would be a bit messy on a trellis. They will, incidentally, bloom pretty much everywhere - none of that only on old wood anxiety, common to many climbers and ramblers - which is just as well, given the amount of pruning it gets. Basically, Susan, you can afford to experiment - nothing much dismays MAC and if you are unhappy, you can prune it to the ground and start over - it is vigorous and forgiving.

MAC on a dead tree. My fanciful notion is that the laterals and canes will fill the tree canopy with leaves and purple and white blooms.

Reality is *probably* that the dead tree will fall over from the weight and chaos will result. Oh, well, at least none of my blood will spill from thorns when it all falls down and I have to clean it all up ... :/

{{gwi:309532}}

This post was edited by harborrose on Mon, Sep 30, 13 at 19:46

Gean, I love it! I was telling my friend today, "oh well, if the whole thing blows down we can just start over!".
I have a near dead 100 year old crab apple that I really want to send Arcata Pink Globe up into the canopy.
Just make sure to keep all vehicles away! LOL
And Camps, I love that---vigorous and forgiving--my kind of rose! I like to snip and snap and train and trim. She will be my experiment.
Susan

Rosefolly,

Thank you for news of Luanne, though I wish it were better. Joe and I reached out several months ago to see if we could take her and Norm to dinner when we were in California in August but got no reply. LA, Norm, Bluesibe, Joe and I had a great dinner several years ago when we visited last. Sigh. If you are in touch with her please send our love.

Kate