I saw Sourire d'Orchidee in Winschoten, it was growing there in part shade, planted in 2006 according to the booklet. Size was about 1,60 meter x 1 meter in mass planting, but they prune their roses rather heavily. Definitely not a climber here though, just normal park shrub. I can't recall it being fragrant, but I saw it after a month of drought and it did not seem to suffer from it at all (many others did in rosarium). My pics of it are on HMF.

I also saw Marie Pavie in the same rosarium in Winschoten, planted in 1999, it was about 70 cm high (again might be heavy pruning, but she looked reasonably happy). It seems she is one of the early bloomers, because she was one of the few roses that were past their peak when I visited there. Again, pics in HMF.

Francis E. Lester- large, vigorous climber. I'm growing it as a very large arching shrub with 8-10 foot canes. It's a big one. Exquisite in bloom, with lilac-tipped white blooms and golden stamens with no rebloom, lots of red hips. Love it. It's planted in a wild border with large landscape grasses in the worst soil here. It couldn't care less.

Russelliana - one of the purple beauties of all times with lighter outer petals. Mine is trained to a pillar, which is a lot of work with a very prickly beast. It is found in old gardens growing as a shrub, and I think propping it against a fence would be perfect. It is growing in terrible soil with no problems. A once bloomer and another that might be better in the deep weeds except that the blooms need to be seen up close to be enjoyed. Blooms finish badly.

R. omeiensis f. pteracantha - enormous upright, slightly arching, dense shrub that needs 8 x 8 to get started. There's no reason to crowd it like I did. I think it's headed to 10 feet in width, and you want it to have it's head. It's dense and lovely. Mine produces scattered fall bloom, but the blooms aren't the attraction.

Marie Pavie - Much wider than high. I'd say my immature plant is 3.5 feet high and more than twice as wide across. It's shorter than Mutabilis, for example.

elemire and berndoodle,
Thank you both for your thoughtful replies. Elemire, in fact I saw your photos on Helpmefind and was hoping to hear from you. Berndoodle, that's the kind of information I need: I appreciate the input.
Melissa

melissa, if it helps, I kind of liked Sd'O. He has a bit of that wild rose/ HM look and similar habit. He was next to Heavenly Pink, Feeling and very similar in growing, just bloom form tad different, also similar to Aspirin (very nice rose with very stupid name), Rosario, Guirlande d'Amour (that one is slightly bigger) or Wonderland - in a sense of general a bit unruly bush look.

I had 4 Marie Pavie between the patio and the rest of the garden for many years. When I stopped spraying, they stopped looking good and I removed them. They were between 4-5 feet. Now I am clearing out the hillside, and am cutting out my Marie Pavie that is over 6 ft. It has been sturdy, but as I recall, it demanded to be deadheaded.

I am training Aloha to be a regular rose, and do not know if it will work. I don't think I would want to try that with Rev 'd Or. It is very big. I don't think it would hold its form very well.

Sammy

Melissa, I grew Francis E Lester in my garden in Cornwall.
It grew up into a mature hawthorn tree, and then trailed over it. Very pretty!
The hawthorn tree was about 20-25 feet high.
Cornwall is a wet zone 9.
Daisy

Melissa, of the ones you listed I have only grown Marie Pavie. I agree with Sammy. In my garden without spray MP was a disaster and she was growing right in the very front part of the yard. She is now living in a co-worker's garden and I'm sure dropping leaves like a slot machine addict drops quarters.

I've done much better with her sport/daughter Marie Daley. And I agree, much wider than tall. Mine topped out at around 3 to 3.5 feet but was 4 to 5 feet wide.

Enjoy your ramblers. Wish I had room for some...

Elemire, that does help. Again, elemire, Sammy, Daisy, gardenatlanta, thanks for the comments! 'Marie Pavie's going into my no-spray garden regardless of your warnings: I'll know not to complain if she's a diseased mess. Mildew is a problem here but blackspot shows up only in passing. Well, now I need to get back to my list of new roses and begin to plan.
Melissa
P.S. gardenatlanta, I'd let you have some of mine. I'm going to (try to) grow these are huge shrubs, and lets hope it works. The problem in my garden is the lack of trees and structures to support climbers...and when my husband does build structures, the dang roses refuse to go up them. Gardening can be a frustating activity.

I believe Lyda is Francis E Lester's sport. It is smaller plant, but can be grown as a big shrub (6x6, for example) or climber. Size will depend on pruning. Flowers look exactly like it's parent's, the same fragance, elegance and red hips, but it does repeat very well, if deadheaded.
Olga

There are 2 plants of Reve d'Or growing in the Sacramento Historic Rose Garden. One grown on a structure (seen here: http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=21.65206&tab=1 )
and another as a shrub. The one grown as a shrub is essentially a mound, comingled with Blush Noisette which grows adjacent to it. If you prune Reve d'Or I think that it could be grown as a mannerly shrub. The one in the HRG is only pruned to keep it out of the paths.

"Reve d'Or" grows well as a shrub, we keep ours to c.
6 feet tall by 5 and 1/2 feet wide.

Lux.

Olga, jannorcal, luxrosa,
Thanks! Now I know where to put 'Reve d'Or'. Olga, I think I had 'Lyda Rose' back in Washington, but as far as I know it's not available here in Europe. But I haven't been looking for it, with other rose things on my mind.
Melissa