I am anxious to hear more about these products.

Carla

This is exciting news, an bold experiment on a grand scale. If it works out well, Ashdown will have done us all a great favor. I wish them the very best in this endeavor. And if it works out well, I too will want to know more about the products.

Rosefolly

I will definitely try them.

If nothing else, to stopped being harassed by the no-spray people.

You got that right buford. I use chemicals in moderation and still catch heat.

I'm sure they'll all be happy to know that my roses have blackspot galore because I don't want to waste water spraying.

I wonder what they are using for blackspot.

I think this is fantastic news. I'm very much hoping for success and will certainly purchase the products if they fare well.

I see on the manufacturer's site that they are redoing the site to have a retail store for home users. Great!

The names of the products I believe are Nutrol and Prudent 44. One is a fertilizer and the other is the fungicide...which is which I'm not sure, I can't remember. A gentleman with Organic Plant Healthcare spoke at that Southern Spring show that I went to and raved about the stuff. It just so happens that Ashdown also had a booth at the show I figure that is how they hooked up.

Ny spray schedule is erratic, mostly because I hate using the stuff but here in SC things just need spraying now and again. So I spray. Paul talked about making packages of product available based on the number of roses that you are caring for.

The thing Paul mentioned at the fall program was a natural insecticide that works on Japanese beetles. I HATE using Sevin and didn't this year at all because of the bees so this is another thing I'm all excited about.

Here is a link to a conversation I had with him on the Peter Beales Rose Forum about these products.

Carole

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.peterbealesroses.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=122

Prudent 44 is manufactured by Lidochem, Inc. and is marketed as a fertilizer (14-0-0). Its components are ammonium phosphite, 15%, and urea phosphite, 57%.

Nutrol, also manufactured by Lidochem, is labeled as a "fungicide, plant nutrient, and tank buffering agent". It is pure potassium dihydrogen phosphate (also called potassium phosphate, monobasic). Potassium dihydrogen phosphate has been reported to control powdery mildew and blackspot by various people over the past ten years or so. Controlled tests (F & N tests, reports available online) of grape mildew showed modest degrees of control, not as good as straight horticultural oil. I tried spraying my phlox with it several years ago to control mildew with mediocre results. Still, I think it would be worth trying the stuff on roses. You can buy potassium dihydrogen phosphate online for something like 5 lbs for $40 and the Nutrol label suggests a spray concentration of 3 tbs per gallon. The label also suggests you might want to add a spreader-sticker.

You can read the labels or MSDS sheets for Prudent 44 and Nutrol at the following link - you have to register but that takes about 30 sec.

Here is a link that might be useful: Lidochem, Inc.

Hi There,

Wow! Great to see the enthusiasm over this. IÂm excited to say the least.

To answer some questions. Regarding the Japanese Beetle control. There is a form of grub control (like milky spore) we will be trying in the spring at the nursery. There is are also some natural products that OPH (Organic Plant HealthCare) is getting a hold of, that are supposedly for control of the beetles themselves and other insects, but we wonÂt get to try it until next year. At the moment the program does not have an "insect control" product because we have not found and tested one ourselves over a full season. And the product also has to have materials from other tests backing up their claims. So this is a way off. Sorry Carole but maybe we can make you a guinea pig!

As with the fertilizers and disease control products if I have not tested them and use them regularly they wonÂt be part of the program until we have.

Regarding disease control. The products mentioned above are used in conjunction and that is the key. (Mike thanks for posting the link). There is research on the combination on roses, grapes and other plants and I believe the intent is to make that research available on-line but donÂt quote me on that. I tested them myself because I have to see things like this with my own eyes. I was pleased enough to put the entire nursery on the program back in late May and that is all we are using and have used since. The Biltmore Estate Rose Garden has also been testing them and is also beginning to switch over.

The whole care program will be available to the home consumer via direct mail order at first (the OPH site our ours) and that should be ready by January in time for next season.

Hope this helps.

Paul....I'm so glad you stopped by and helped clear up some of the things I had a bit misconstrued. And added more info about these products. You know I have been excited about them since last spring and have been DYING to get my hands on them since. Hopefully I haven't been a pest.

Guinea pig? Absolutely....sign me up.

Carole

A pest?? No way!!!!. I'm glad you are excited and a guinea pig you now are. Touch base with me in March or so and I'll get you some things to try out.

Wow!!! Thanks!!!! HHRD!!!!

I will definitely be in touch sometime in March.

(This is so exciting!!)

Carole

This is a great development and I look forward to hearing more about it. Brandy

Paul, it sounds very interestsing.

Can you tell us about Michael Marriott's organic techniques he uses at David Austin Roses? I was so sorry to miss the workshop....

I also really look forward to try out the new product range. As for a natural insecticide I suggest Pyrethrum. It is biodegradable and are not toxic for mammals and birds. It even smells nice. For years I used to make an extract of the dried plants Chrysanthemum cinerariaefolium, and spray it on the roses. Now we can buy Pyrethrum in neem oil. 15 drops per gallon and bugs are not a problem anymore.

It depends on what bugs. Pyrethrum does nothing for JBs.
By the way, I am not using insecticeds myself and I am all for organic and no spray. But let's be realistic.
So far I didn't come across any organic remedy that can prevent BS in this area or kill JBs. I tried everything available, I think. Sulfur is the best of organics but it is only moderately effective. Milky Spore is good but only works if you can treat big area.
I really hope the new products will work. I definitely will give them a try as soon as they are available. I am just a little pessimistic because of my past experience with organics, but still hope for the best.
Whatever the outcome is, Thank you Ashdown for doing this.
Olga

Hi Krista,

I don't know what the rose care program is at DA Roses in Shropshire so I don't want to speculate.

Michael Marriott on a personal level at his garden at home believes strongly in good soil preparation, and yearly mulching. This creates healthy roses, better able to ward off fungus. That is also the basis of this care program.

Olga

I'm not sure of what the makeup is of the insecticides we will be trying as they have not come to me yet. I donÂt believe they are Pyrethrums.

I hear you skepticism trying organic/natural products. IÂve tried I donÂt know how many organic and natural products before these and most didnÂt do much. This is the first one I ever found that did work.

Is it a "magic natural bullet"? Of course not. The program is based on a few assumptions that the gardener has to be willing to do.

First plant roses that are disease resistant for your area. Luckily more and more are becoming available so as time goes on this should be easier.

Second is good horticultural. Use a good mulch, water wisely and keep the roses cleaned of dead wood etc.

The program at that point is designed to feed the soil and the roses. In combination that will boost the plants own ability to ward off disease because it will be healthy. Chemical fertilizers are like energy booster drinks. They work short term but long term a good natural/organic program works better. The fungus portion of the program integrates into that and also follows the same philosophy of boosting the roses own health.

My observation (and that of others we will be announcing soon who have tried and agreed to endorse the products) is the products in the program work when used in conjunction. That is why this will be released as a Complete Rose Care program. Takes the guesswork out of buying something from this company and something else from another and hoping they donÂt overlap.

Hope this helps and I appreciate you being willing to give them a try. I look forward to your feedback.

Paul

Paul, thank you very much for taking time to answer.I actually fully agree with you. Good horticulture is very important as well as the right selection of varieties. That is exactly why my garden has very few repeat blooming roses now. I believe that my rose culture is good. But still, Looks like repeat and health are almost incompatible in my climate with the exception of Knock Outs and Darlow's Enigma. But somehow I need more from my roses then KO can offer. So I will be happy to try your new fungicide. I understant that there are no magic bullets, but if it will help me to increase the number of beautiful fragrant roses that I can grow here w/o conventional fungicides, it will be worth it.
Olga

Hi Olga,

I think you will find more and more repeat flowering roses that are healthy. I am very impressed with what I see being released. Also more and more nurseries have stopped spraying their test fields so roses have to be healthy to be released. This is happening particularly in Europe.

:::This is happening particularly in Europe.:::

Some of the healthiest, happiest roses that I have in my yard are the Delbards that I bought from Ashdown so I'm thinking that Paul may just be right about this. And this doesn't mean that they scrimp on form or fragrance.

One that comes to mind right now is a rose that I bought this spring, Dames de Chenonceau. It is blooming right now (if I had a working camera I'd take a picture) with not one teensy blackspot anywhere on it and the flowers are HUGE. At least 4 to 5 inches across. I can't remember the last time I sprayed it.

Carole

Here is a link that might be useful: Help Me Find - Dames de Chenonceau

And not to give the wrong impression our American Breeders like Tom Carruth, Keith Zary, Ping Lim and others they are also breeding more and more for health. I just think there was more pressure in Europe for those kinds of roses sooner than over here - hence the head start. But we have some very talented rose breeders over here as well.

Ok folks, at the risk of being negative and yelled at by all here, I must ask the following:

Paul: How does your new program measure up with whatever state and inter-state regulations you as a nursery grower must meet? Are the regulators accepting of your spray practices regarding insects and diseases?

Second, as one who is battling rose midge and RRD how do the pesticides measure up to insuring you do not transport these pests? I know for certain that I imported rose midge from potted roses in the mail. I do not buy locally and no one within striking distance grows roses in my area. I also do not know which vendor these came from, and I do not mean to imply they were your roses. Nonetheless, this is my new obcession-to get rid of rose midge.

TIA
Barbara

Hi Barbara,

Great questions. We are inspected regularly by the USDA for disease. If we have too much we would not be allowed to ship. We have been fully on the program since May and have been shipping ever since.

Regarding pests. The program does not contain a "pesticide" yet for the reason I mentioned in an earlier thread. We have products we are testing to use in it but until we are convinced of their worth we wonÂt market them.

Regarding pests at the nursery I am using various products already on the market including things like predatory spider mites.

We are required by the USDA to treat soil in pots right before they are shipped and in order to stay in business we of course do so.

If we did get an outbreak of something I won't say I might have to resort to chemicals to control it immediately. But my hope is that as time goes on we will a natural line of products I can integrate into our regular program.

Thanks
Paul