Thank you Melissa, I have a friend who has no garden designing sense as far as I know and she could create a flowing garden full of sense and wonder. Her talent is in painting. Given the basics of the size of the roses I believe a great garden could be created.

Lance

If I have to choose between a carefully and competently planned garden and one that is the product of passion, I'll go for the passionate garden: it has a soul, however clumsily expressed.

Exactly. Those are the gardens I want to visit. Not the orderly, perfect public gardens but personal gardens of true expression of the soul and of the roses themselves. Gardens with an artists hand.

Denise

All of the above thoughts echo my own in every way. The perfectly raked gravel path, the evenly spaces cypress columns, the carefully tended flowers - so nice to visit for an hour and then to forget about. A wilderness of roses and other plants, tended with love and a finite amount of time, perfect in its imperfections if I may borrow a phrase from Jane Austen, that's a garden I could get lost in, the romance and mystery of what's around the corner and in the next bed drawing me in ever deeper - wonderful to explore this garden and, especially, the gardener who created it. Something to never forget and revisit in one's mind over and over. That is a garden with soul - and I have seen such gardens here.

Ingrid

Perfection. Well to me that's something sterile. In the world of ceramics perfect pieces are pored into molds again and again. You've heard the exspession "A completed garden is a dead garden"? I imagine that a "perfect" garden would be a completed garden. I feel that I can strive to make my garden as beautiful as I possibly can but I'm not interested in perfection.

Melissa, you are very wise and thoughtful to post this thread.

I too often feel I need perfection in the garden. I'll watch a movie or travel somewhere and see gardens that are breathtaking. I start to scheme and plan on how I can make my garden more perfect, but it truly is more satisfying to accept the imperfections and to garden with passion. To have a garden that has soul and a special kind of sumptuousness is the thing.

Juliet

I've missed sleep, on many nights from drawing landscaping plans, for a perfect garden, but my thoughts changed for an hour or so, on Thanksgiving.

From a gift of a Tea rose blossom, from Luanne, on Thanksgiving day.

One Tea rose blossom,
alone
to meditate upon
and it filled my mind up,
with its beauty.

petals silken, upon my fingertips
a bloom of many starry points
edged with softest ivory,
and blending peach and pink.

as delicate in petal,
as a sigh from an angel.

-------------------

Lux

If I have to choose between a carefully and competently planned garden and one that is the product of passion...

Yes, but when you get both, oh baby!

What you have written Melissa would surely give every passionate gardener confidence in their creation.
My partner doesn't like what I have done in our garden - put in over 100 poles, 10 Arches with some more to come and roughly 400 hundred new roses. To me it makes perfect sense and alot of the time it is deeply satisfying to me in knowing what I am in the process of creating.
I surpose some couples might be able to share that passion and create and work together in their garden. But my partner lost interest in liking our garden as my passion to grow roses was far too extreme and a waste of money, time and health in his way of thinking. The same happened with my previous partner.
Has this happened to any of you here ?

Lovely poem Luxrosa !

But my partner lost interest in liking our garden as my passion to grow roses was far too extreme and a waste of money, time and health in his way of thinking...Has this happened to any of you here ?

No...he's happy if I'm happy. And his hobby is waaaay more expensive than mine.

Hope it works out for you.

Thanks for answering hoovb. I am very glad that your partner and yourself are happy together.
Thats how my partner was, use to joke about us being Ma and Pa. And he has done so very much for my girls and myself. But now he has Lung Cancer, and he doesn't seem to hold back on being cranky alot. I think he gave us so much of himself and now he regrets it because he doesn't get the respect from my daughters and me that he thinks he should have. I shouldn't argue back because of what he is going through, I wish I could be a more caring partner. But I also wish he could get on with my two eldest girls better and tell me my garden looks great , which would keep our family stronger. We have nearly 2 weeks to wait for a scan to find out if the radiaton and cemotherapy worked.
Anyway, I didn't mean to sadden this Thanksgiving thread.
Here is a photo to give thanks for our beautiful daughter that proves we were not wrong in becoming a couple. Here is our Joy, our Perfectoin.

Corrinne
{{gwi:320287}}

*** I shouldn't argue back because of what he is going through, I wish I could be a more caring partner.

See, you already know what you need to do, and it will take you a long way toward the love and joy you once had. You can only control you - not him. Just love him regardless of what you get in return.

To me perfection doesn't bring beauty but rather vice versa - and thankfully so, because I can't create perfection. It's totally out of my hands. I can only wait for beauty and give it the recognition it deserves with the label of perfection that exists only in my heart for an all too fleeting moment. I think that's why there are so many close-up photos of flowers. The broader beauty of an entire garden takes time and maturity and living with a lot of "ugly" until it arrives. IMHO a young garden can't really be beautiful and therefore won't be perfect. And so a 'young' gardener must abide and walk in faith through the undersized, gawky plantings and unfilled spaces. This gardener must realize that the dreams planted in the garden today are for the future, that today's tending and coddling though not guaranteed are for days to come, and then one day beauty will be there all around almost unexpectedly. And a joyful tear or two will blur the vision, and it will be perfect - orderly and well designed or not.

Sherry

Sherry, in your post above you could have been talking about my garden as well as yours, since I think they're similar in age. Everything you said in such a beautiful and poignant way is true. I really struggle with the compulsive part of me that wants it all NOW, no matter how much logic tells me otherwise. There is also the realization in this uncertain world that tomorrow, or the day after that, might not exist for me. Hence I want to live in the moment and grasp as much as I can at this very moment in time. What does help is watching young shoots sprout, seeing the first bud on a new rose, and seeing the older roses grow taller and more beautiful. There may not be perfection in the path toward a beautiful, more mature garden but there is a great deal of quiet, and sometimes jubilant, satisfaction.

Ingrid

True, Ingrid. I know the jubilation over small beauties, too, and it's very satisfying. Little by little they will be bigger beauties. But we must trust that we'll be here to see it when it arrives or, even better, be content one way or the other. I know, the fear creeps in at times, but this thread has shown me we can't live that way. What kind of gardener lives without hope and faith and trust? I think the terms are mutually exclusive.

Sherry

Thankyou so much Sherry and Ingrid for your wisedom. I will save these posts so I can come back and re read. I truely don't think I have read or will read anything as inspiring as what you wrote in your post, Sherry. I am so glad that I posted and you were kind enough to reply.
Thankyou !

Rosemeadow, you are so very welcome. Timing is everything, and that was the time for encouragement. I'll be praying for you and your partner.

Sherry

Melissa and the others, you've all said it so well. This is why I call myself a gardener rather than a landscaper and would rather live in a *home* than a _house_.

Rosemeadow, Sherry said it well. I'll add another comment that I heard on a radio interview with an oncology nurse. I've always been in awe of folks that can share themselves in this way and keep it up without burning out. In any case, she said that the way that she did it is by the realization that their illness is THEIR journey, and she is merely there to help them on their journey. I thought that was such a simple, beautiful statement, I admired her tremdously. Best to you and your family on your partner's journey and your family's journey during this time.

Thankyou Sherry, I sure did need encouragement. I am sure I will be a better person now.
Also what you said about a 'young' gardener and their faith in their garden one day having so much beauty, eventhough there was ugly before. This could also be relationships too.
Lagomorhmom, I sure hope that journey doesn't happen, or not for many, many years.

Yes, I hope so, too! I was so intent on the perspective of her story, I didn't finish my thought. I'm sorry! I think her interpretation could be of any 'life event' as the person's journey applies to so many other things in life also, illness, unemployment, divorce. As we all have probably experienced with friends and family, we do our best to support and love them during the down times, but sometimes they're just going to be down and we can't help at that time. We all want so much to 'fix it' for our loved ones and I thought her perspective that it is their journey that day, tomorrow we may have more success, was a wonderful view for those of us that support them.

Long story short, you were talking about having enough patience, what I meant is that it's a rocky road for you, too, and the hard part is supporting our loved ones when they may not want it or you can't seem to say the right thing that day and then waiting for the next time they'll take our support. Take a breath when it gets hard, do something good for yourself, even a cup of coffee, a trip to the grocery or the garden to get fresh air. Again, my best to you all

Our computer was out for a week and I wasn't able to write after my initial message. Rosemeadow, clearly you all are having a very hard time: I pray for you all. Can you help your older daughters understand what a difficult time this is for your partner? Your little girl is a dear. I have a daughter also, older than your girl in the photo, and I treasure her. I hope your family, adults and children, will come through this more united and more able to help and love each other: that's what families are for.
We had our first snowfall two days ago. Happy holidays, everybody!
Melissa

Thanks Melissa, I didn't mean to make your thread sad but thankyou all for your wisedom and surport. Actually things have improved already between my partner and I, what a lovely feeling. And my daughter that has the most conflict with him was actually having a joke with him after dinner tonight. So there is hope !

Melissa one of the things i love about this forum are your posts, sweet shining jewels that are a delight to read. Please accept my thanks for sharing these gems here.

I read-

But it will always be imperfect, always have weeds, always have plants that don't grow or don't go together, always have abundant mistakes. I do the best I can. And my garden has its moments of grace, some flower or plant or moment when I pause in wonder and think, this is a miracle.

-and thought, "my god she has been here" ; )

As for joy? Joy is the bedrock of my garden and can be found everyday, anytime.

I am so sorry Lagomorphmom, somehow I missed your second post. I read Melissa's post but missed yours above. And it was so caring of you to re explain what the lady had meant and how you understood it. Thankyou for sharing your wisedom.
It helps me alot. I hope you will come back here and see how I apreciated your time posting here.
Thankyou Mauirose for bringing this post to near the top so I could realise my mistake.
Melissa, I should have asked you how old your daughter was
and what is her name ? Our children sure are our treasures !

Mauirose, thank you.
Rosemeadow, she's about to turn eleven and is in sixth grade; she's a blond cutie too, which is why the photo of your daughter brought her to mind. It's fine to talk about your troubles here; in fact I'm glad you did so, and I hope you got help as a result.
Melissa

Melissa,
my middle daughter turns eleven in June. So we have that and growing roses in common. What season is it in Italy now ?
Karen.

Karen,
It's winter. We have a four season climate, Mediterranean style, with hot dry summers and chilly, but not overly cold, wet winters. I'm American, and my fellow citizens are always surprised to find out how far north my home here is: just south of the 45th Parallel. Italy is a long country. Since we've lived here the winter weather has been mild, and I've rarely known temperatures to drop below 20° Fahrenheit, but people tell me that it was much colder back in the 80s, with plenty of snow every winter. It still snows, last winter we got about five feet total, but on our property, which is a warm one, it melted fast. There are warm pockets in this area where olives have been grown for centuries, and I think much of our property is of this type. We have planted some olives, mainly for ornamental purposes, though lately I've been looking at recipes for preserving them.

I like girls, and my daughter is really satisfactory. Children are so interesting! She started middle school this year, new town, new teachers, new classmates, and is dealing well with it all. I'm awaiting the beginning of adolescence with curiosity.

Right now the wood stove is going and the living room is cozy. It looks as though the weather will be clear today. I'll do chores while I wait for it to warm up, then go out and work in the garden. These days it's 8-9 hours from sunrise to sunset, and since I'm highly susceptible to lack of light, I spend every hour of sunny weather outdoors that I can possibly manage. Temperatures are finally dropping to freezing, which should put an end to the last of the rose flowering; and we need to cover up our tender plants and cuttings. It has been a warm fall.

I hope your partner is doing better. Wish him well from me.

Melissa

Melissa, it sounds a very lovely home you have. I look very forward to seeing photos of your garden.
It s good to hear your daughter has adapted so well. My daughter will be starting a new school next year, as she past a test to get into a class for accademically gifted children. So your right , children are interesting. My daughter wasn't going to leave her friends at her present shcool. Then she decieded to have a go after finding out her best friend is going to China for 6 months with her mother, and also after meeting the OC teacher and Headmaster of the new school, which is another town away from her present school.
I didn't get into the garden today, so I hope I can make up for it tomorrow.

Rosemeadow, you're very welcome, I'm glad I successfully straightened up what I meant to say ;-) Sometimes trying to be supportive doesn't always hit the mark.

For myself, I try to use the 'it's their journey' reminder most with my husband. The older he gets the more he wants to do things his way without considering my sage advice - imagine! Bearing in mind, I sincerely hate to be bossy or argumentative (not the things I picked to emulate from my mom), I do find it hard to let go when I am quite sure I've got the better idea. Now, while I still find the need to share my, er, wisdom, now I try to let it go once it's been offered and rejected, mutter to myself and then let him do his thing. I try to be content later with a not too unusual, you were right or that really was a good idea. It is often very hard though, sigh, hee, hee, hee! Take care.

Rosemeadow, I feel for your situation. I just lost my Dad to Lung Cancer on Nov 19. But his was stage 4 by the time they found it.

This is a profound discussion. I have learned that there is perfection in imperfection. That's why I try and try not to spray in my garden..at least for bugs. Nature's plan and our plans for a garden are very different at times. I try to enjoy all the imperfection..to me the joy is the working in the garden..not to have a perfect garden. This is so simplistic, but it reminds me of the phrase "life is what happens while you are busy making other plans". The joy is the journey, not the end result

Zeperiris, I am sorry to hear about you father. It is such a short time a go for you. Thankyou for feeling for us when you have your own sadness.
Our garden is so un perfect now because of the lack of rain. But I was thinking how much more terrible would it look if I didn't have the greenery of the rose bushes.
Lagomorphmom, I will try real hard to do what you do, thanks for your wise example.

Well I tried to a copy my post so I could post the same one in another forum here on Garden Web but it didn't work. I have posted it in the Garden Web to my friends there. I will do a quicker version now, which might be more sensible anyway .
I wanted you all to know here that my partner has had good results about what the Radiation and Chemotherapy did to his lung cancer. We will have to wait another 4 months, or again at 8 months, to know more. But it is certainly such good news for now.
The bad or good news on a personal level is that things came to a head , a fight, between my partner, myself and my older daughters last night, when it should have been a good night after having such good news.
He has to eigther stop picking fights and critising my daughters or we have to end our living together. I have to think of my older daughers well being, they need a positve, happy enviroment to live in. He just doesn't have the patince or wisdom to help them grow up. I am not saying I am perfect, I have made lots of mistakes, but I love them and see what great kids they are. Ray only seems to be only negative about them and holds grudges against them. It could be so different I think, but then I am not Ray having to put up living in a household that doesn't run to how he thinks it should. He is such a loving father to my youngest daughter. He has tried with my older daugthers since they were much younger, they even were all together with me when Corrinne was born, but its the future I have to worry about to keep the further future, if that makes sense, so it works out for the very best and my girls can look back and be fond of their years growing up here. I think they have accepted my need to grow roses. But then I have to worry about my youngest's one's happines too, and being fair to give back to repay all the good things that my partner has done for us. I surpose I really need to be on a councilling forum or family forum. So I am sorry. My situation must be happening in so many families that have step parents.
It is raining here, which we so desperately needed.
Thanks for reading.

Karen,
Would you send me a private e-mail (you can do so through my page here on the forum) so that I can contact you in the same way? I looked at your profile and see that you don't list a way to contact you by e-mail. Thanks,
Melissa