Sherry, I agree with you about loblolly pine. They are planted everywhere in Houston area. Guess what happened when Hurricane Ike came though... I'm just so glad one of the pines did not fall on my mom's house. Down the street, a large pine tree fell on right in the middle of the roof and caved in. Not very good tree... I remember back in 1989(?) when another hurricane came through and many pine trees across Houston fell down. Back then, we had a lot more pines and that was a lot of clean up. We didn't have one pine falling down fortunately. Just several of huge pile of needles.... I would never plant a loblolly pine near my house...

All the exotic invasive trees:
Mimosa
Tree of Heaven
Russian Olive
Siberian Elm
Princess tree
Plus any I missed.

Good news!
After bare-rooting and re-potting my Ailanthus last autumn, there are red buds beginning to swell near the growth tips! I wasn't sure how well they'd take such drastic, heavy-handed treatment....but they're back now!

With all the rain we've been having, I'm more worried about the Ailanthus roots in the backyard drowning...

Josh

so are you going to use one of the potted Ailanthus for bonsai like you talked about? Seems like they struggle from transplanting. I have one that was planted in 2005 if I recall right, and lucky if it has grown a foot.

I am going to attempt a bonsai presentation, but I know that leaf-reduction will be an absurdity. I'm okay with that. Truly, I'm more interested in developing the trunk/roots at the soil line.

When I bare-rooted, I *really* bare-rooted! I left hardly any fine roots, and I split the plant into two plants, then put in separate pots. Instead of the horrible old peat-moss potting soil, I re-potted with bark, perlite, gravel, and pumice. Only rain-water since then.

The first year I grew Ailanthus in pots, the deer ate the tops off my plants. Second year, I got about three feet of growth. Third year (last year) a hard freeze killed the early leaves. This caused the growth-tip to branch and to back-bud lower down the trunk - but only about four inches of heighth added overall. This year, I'm keeping the pots right against the house until May Day.

Josh

Here's some news, greenman28, you should stop rubbing the fact that you plant and love the tree in everyone's face in this thread. I don't have a problem with the fact that you like the tree, because some do, but your posts just to profess how much you love and are planting the tree in the face of many who clearly don't seems to serve no other purpose than to annoy other people. It is that you seem to be trying to tick people off that annoys me.

"Many of you folks'll be horrified to learn"
"Good news!"

If you are looking for practical information, this is not the thread. Start a new topic for the subject. You are not even defending the tree's merits, something that would make sense in the context of this thread, you are just professing the fact that you have planted it and such in every single one of your posts here. You are just coming across as troll-ish.

I have given no cause for affront, and I do not deserve to be used by a peer in so ingracious a fashion.
Please review the GardenWeb rules on addressing fellow posters and maintaining civility.

Josh

I'm sorry Fledgeling but I agree with greenman. Maybe you should review the Garden Web rules

I tend to agree with Fledgling.

Here what is called 'Chinese elm' is really Siberian elm & was promoted by our then governer & planted extensively in the 40's & 50's here in the high desert. Yes, it was a needed, rugged tree for shade when we had nothing else then but it has served it's purpose now that other species of trees are available! The tons of seeds that fall & blow all over in Spring are a mess & they sprout all over! We rake the leaves in the Fall & the seeds in the Spring! The ones left are over 40 yrs. old & survive wild on the mesas & back yards in older areas with no additional water. The roots invade the sewers, crawl under the house foundations & even though they are illegal to plant now the seeds from the present old ones insure they will always be around. Same with the alianthus AKA 'Tree of Heaven'... The crushed leaves smell awful & those seeds come up all over the neighborhood & if not pulled early the deep tap root is awful to try & dig out. I heard they will grow up out of the concrete & asphalt in New York City & I believe it! More like a 'Tree of He.L' I'd guess! One tree in a neighbor's yard has supplied the whole neighborhood with them now!

My post was never uncivil, it was simply an observation and my opinion thus. There no need to point me towards the rules because some could view your own posts as provocative. I simply suggested that this was not the place to be discussing the matter - and I stand by that.

I suggest you review the posting guidelines - and I stand by that.
I have no desire to be banned from these Forums.

Josh

SAD.. seasonal affective disorder is showing its ugly head ... lol

and i am so tired of this debate in my mail box a dozen times a day ...

he can say whatever he wants...

and so can the rest of you ...

but arguing over refusing him his soapbox is irrelevant ..

if you want to continue the debate of GW rules.. feel free to start your own post ... and check the box ... so the posts go to your mailbox ...

otherwise... go get some sun burned into your retinas .... and get over this late winter funk ... you all probably need a good dose of vitamin D

you guys are bumming me out.. so get over it .... and go do the right thing...

ken

Huzzah!
Thanks, Ken.

Josh

Although some of us get rather tired of "I'm gonna grow ailanthus regardless of what anyone else thinks! Nyah, nyah!" oonstantly.

melaluca.. esp in Florida

Here in the northeast US, these should never be planted -

Acer platanoides
Rhamnus cathartica (Common Buckthorn)
Frangula alnus (Glossy Buckthorn)
Ailanthus altissima
Pyrus calleryana
Acer ginnala
Eleagnus umbellata
Eleagnus augustifolia
Paulownia tomentosa
Populus alba

In general, non-native, non-invasive trees are okay for ornamental purposes, but don't have a lot to offer native fauna.

Native Buckthorns (like Frangula caroliniana) are okay

I love Acer saccharinum, and it's a wonderful wildlife tree, but should not be planted close to houses, septic systems, driveways, walkways, or gardens. (Wouldn't you know, I have a huge 50+ year old Silver maple 20 feet from the southwest corner of my house, and have had problems with the sidewalk heaving, roots in the septic system, have to convert nearby gardens to xeric plants because of those pesky maples roots, and get a zillion samaras in the gutters! But I won't cut it down because it provides shade for the house. Oh well.)

I don't recall seeing a huge silver maple around here. They seem to fall apart rather early around 15 years of age. I wonder if it's more hardy in north climate than south climate?

Populus alba is listed frequently, but this is a stretch. Yes, it can sucker some - but it is nothing like truly invasive exotics like buckthorn.

London Plane Tree - for being the most boring and over-used street tree ever.

Terrene, I never would have planted a Bradford Pear if I had realized that when they reach maturity, they break easily in storms and Kansas gets a 'few'. They are planted all over the KC area because they are so beautiful in the spring. The Amur Maples, on the other hand, I love. I have 4 in my backyard. Now if only my neighbor would get rid of his Russian Olives that are next to my fence.

Schiffer, I planted a Bradford Pear at my other house too 10 years ago, but it is slated to be cut down (fortunately, it's only grown to 6-8" diameter at this time). That was well before being "enlightened" on this forum abuto their weak wood, poor form, and invasive tendencies, of course. I have a large Amur maple here which is very healthy and has great fall color, but it is clearly a healthy spreader as I pull seedlings here and there on the lot. Not sure what to do with it, it is a lesser invasive, when I've got lots of Buckthorn, Lonicera, Acer platanoides, and Oriental bittersweet, etc. to worry about. :-/

Got to get a plug in for Crabapples here - I love my thickets of crazy mixed-up wild Crabs out back. While they are somewhat weedy, they provide wonderful cover for the birds and are spectacular in bloom - very floriferous, fragrant, buzzing with pollinators. Attractive fruit of assorted sizes and colors. The birds feast on these trees for a long season, not only on the fruit which persists for several months, but also on the many insect herbivores that use this tree. Although this is apparently unusual, the leaf chemisty of the exotic Malus and hybrids is so close to the native Malus that they are used by 311 species of lepidoptera in the Northeast (according to Douglas Tallamy, "Bringing Nature Home").

Funny to me how 'non-natives' seem to get the lion's share of bad press. The people in charge of deciding what plant to call 'invasive' have obviously never had a sweetgum or a pine tree on their property (see misssherry's notes about Loblolly pines). The precious few benefits these trees offer...shade for both and some decent fall color for the sweetgum....aren't worth the maintenance nightmare they offer in return. Ever stepped on one of those spikey seed balls from a sweetgum while in bare feet?? And a great recipe for a sore back: Try picking up a couple hundred pine cones every few months. Or removing the stains the pine straw leaves on your shingles or driveway.
The only plant I would be more nervous about putting on my property than these two would be a sprig of kudzu...If I had the money, there wouldn't be a pine tree or sweetgum left standing on my lot.

I was bit puzzled about some of the negative remarks posted about poplars. Then realized this might have been directed towards aspens and cottonwoods. A tree we often refer to as poplar in the South (incorrectly) is the tulip tree (liriodendron tulipfera). These regal giants are one of my personal favorites and highly recommended if you need a large, fast growing shade tree.

Also saw mimosa getting slammed but have had a large one on my property for 11 years and have yet to see the first volunteer seedling. I love mine.

I don't recall seeing a huge silver maple around here. They seem to fall apart rather early around 15 years of age. I wonder if it's more hardy in north climate than south climate?

Here in West Michigan, Silver and White Maples do last longer apparently, but they are still very soft. In my front yard is a pair , a Silver and a White on each side of the Driveway. They are about 35 years old. My mother planted them when she was in grade school. But the Silver maple probably won't last more than another five years. Their trunks have a tendency to split about four feet from the ground, and one of the two trunks generally tends to be weaker. Unfortunately, on our Silver, the weaker trunk appears to carry about two thirds of the canopy. So they do better up here it sounds like. But they aren't "strong" trees anywhere.

I dont think there is any tree that should NEVER be planted, but heres a few from first hand experience that I would say to stay away from-

Boxelder
Leyland Cypress
Bradford Pear

Infertile flowering trees(i want berries for the birds)
Leylandii and most other so called garden Conifers UNLESS you are either prepared to trim them or have a big garden! I'm sick of seeing once cute conifers planted close to a house slowly going brown!
Purple Norway Maple. Good grief if you're gonna plant a maple make it a Field Maple(A.campestre) for once!
Nasty modern Lime hybrids that sucker like crazy! Stick to Tillia cordata please!

Trees I have learned to hate: Red oak, Pin Oak, Silver Maple, Poplar, Cottonwood, Austrees, Beech, Redbud, Thornapple. Especially Austrees and Beech. While there are others I could include, these are the ones that currently threaten my house and my gardens, thanks to a neighbor. Daggnabit! So do the others. Some of them even give me allergic reactions.

Caragana..at least the shelterbelt variety. If you want to use it for a hedge - find something else! Or at least find a non-suckering variety.

I agree that most trees have their place, and that there are VERY few that "shouldn't" be planted. For instance, in the wrong place, a weeping willow is an aweful, messy, damage-causing tree. With proper space and moisture, it is majestic, though relatively short-lived.

What about Emerald Green Arborvetie? I need a privacy screen. Does anyone have any experience with the evergreen shrub/tree. How big around does it get. I need this answer from someone who has experience with this shrub/tree. I know it says 4 feet but is this true?
Thanks

Hey, I live on 1/8 acre lot. Do you think my neighbors will take offense if I plant a weeping willow tree? LOL

http://www.uwgb.edu/biodiversity/herbarium/trees/salbab_male_aspect01_web400.jpg

I am new to the forum and am interested in finding out if anyone else feels the same way about Scotch Pine. They are everywhere in my area of central lower Michigan and to me they are a weed.

I have 13 wet wooded acres and the pine trees are all over but dropping like flies. Maybe they have reached their lifespan, maybe it has gotten too wet lately, or maybe there is a disease, I don't know. They seem to attract grape vines so that when one tree falls, several come down with it. I cut down the grapes as I find them.

These pines are useless as firewood (I only use fallen trees of any kind). The pines will quickly soak up water like sponges but if I find burnable ones, the fire is cool, quick, and sooty.

I don't think they are aesthetically attractive either. Comments? Thanks. nice forum.

I ordered what was supposed to be fernleaf sumac. Not sure what type of sumac I have,but boy does it sucker. I love the trees, but the suckers are incredible. I don't mind mowing them down in the lawn, that's not bad. But the suckers travel so far and the roots are very close to the surface of the soil. Makes things difficult sometimes.

Boxelder and cottonwood are two I wish were not around here.

Female Ginko Trees - stinkballs
Black Walnut - breaks windshields
Unattended Fruit Trees - lots of rotten goo on the ground

Would someone actually plant Boxelder or Silver Maple?

The City of Phila. planted two Norway Maples as my street trees. Nothing grew under them, big leaf clean-up, looked terrible after being trimmed for wires.

Yes, I would plant a Silver maple, not in a landscape, but in a low-lying wild area (i.e. floodplain) Why? Some are actually attractive in form and have reasonable yellow fall color. They are native and great wildlife trees. Their wildlife value for mammals, birds, and lepidoptera is ranked very high by Gary Hightshoe and Douglas Tallamy. Even their brittle wood is a boon for birds because as branches or trunks break off, cavities are created for cavity-nesting birds.

As for Norway maples - what a horrible tree. I'm feeling particularly crabby at the moment because there are a zillion seedlings coming up in the gardens from the one GINORMOUS tree that's left on my lot (4 others removed). Now if I could come up with and extra $1000 or so, that one too would head for the chopping block.

In our backyard we have:

Common Hackberry
Common Mulberry
Black Walnut
Common Horsechestnut

Note the predominance of "common."

These trees might be fine in a park or in a field or forest, but they are nothing you'd want in your yard. Trust me on this.

The tree geniuses at the Kansas City Parks and Recreation Department have scrupulously avoided these species and have instead planted vast rows of Sweetgum, Pin Oak and Norway Maple along our streets and boulevards. They're particulary fond of the "Crimson King" cultivar of Norway Maple.

The Hawthorn tree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't believe anyone mentioned the CAMPHOR TREE?
Even the roots smell like camphor. The seeds are like wild cherries in size, they are all fertile it seems, birds poop them out everywhere. If you try to dig them up, be sure not to leave even a tiny piece of root or it will come back strong.

And, if there is a really hard freeze, the top will die back and leave an ugly bole then parts will resprout.

We are considering a row of Leyland Cypress trees for privacy. Our yard is 2 1/2 acres. Would this be bad? Should they be planted 7 or 8 feet apart? I am surprised that someone mentioned the Mimosa tree. We are considering one for our back yard. What's wrong with them? I dislike the Mulberry trees because they are ugly and cause damage to sidewalks, driveways, etc.

common Hackberry: Thicket growing and extremely heavy source of late in the season allergins.

leyland Cypress: unless one does not care if his or her tree dies early, or if it escapes some common deaths; it lives on to become way over grown and way too expensive to remove if afterwards it declines from disease or pest infestations.

Sugar maple: unless the property owner ensures he/she trains the tree to grow only a single main leader trunk, and even then only if the owner is willing to remove the tree if it becomes so stressed it more than one year, produces too many weedy seeds, or if it begins dropping limbs nearly every time a mildly significant storm system blows through.

Female cottonwood trees. Hate the sticky fluff that causes airconditioner unit and roof guttering, upkeep headaches, amid a myriad of other hassles

"Sugar maple: ...."

You're thinking of Silver Maple there!

Sugar Maple is a choice tree, with no significant problems.

Resin

Oh thanks for the correction Resin. You are definately correct.

I really think it depends on what variety of silver maple. We planted "Silver Cloud", and - although it's toast because some deer got at it and girdled it - it WAS very beautiful, with smooth, silver gray bark and shimmery silver leaves. It was a standard grown tree, with a very neat rounded form. Very nice!

Someone mentioned scots pine - I disagree! I think they can be very unique looking trees, and they develop more character as they get older. Plus, they seem to be very drought tolerant. I love the orange colored bark they get as they age. Might be a "weed" in your area, but I love them around where I live in Canada!

"Someone mentioned scots pine - I disagree!"

Well said! One of the nicest trees going. More proof that the idea behind this thread depends so much on location.

Resin

the naybor's elm tree
seedlings for blocks
hard enuf wind makes it looks like it'll kill u from 100's of yards away wen it breaks
which it's dun plenty times now

it's planted RITE NEXT TO THEIR HOUSE
gawd

not wild about the constant leaf fall of the live oaks in our yard either

I DISAGREE WITH EVRYTHING! All trees should be planted, it doesn't matter if they are hard to take care of or anything eles. Trees help us live! Goodness people, we already killed of more then 1/2 of earth's trees and plants. If they kill surounding plants put it in a pot. WE HAVE TO SAVE EARTH AND PEOPLE! I want to live on eath and still be able to breath and not sufficate, I want my children and their to be able to too. Right now it is only these 50 trees or so and next it's 50,000.

Anyone disagrees with me I'm goldfishgray@yahoo.com.
`Kate

Just a follow-up:
the Ailanthus survived the bare-rooting.....and then were "topped" by some
curious deer. Deer food: so I guess Ailanthus is good for something? Anyhow, after
the deer topped my plants, I pruned them - and now they're flourishing again. I
will be removing some of the Ailanthus from my yard, many of you will be happy to
hear, in order to make room for some conifers.

Although it is a much-reviled tree, have you seen its beautiful red flowers lately?

Josh

But they stink, really really stink.

Personally I vote for Black Walnut and Cottonwood trees. We have both on our property. The cottonwood is a real mess during late spring, with white "cotton" all over the yard. Looks terrible! Plus it drops branches like crazy. Every week I'm out in the garden beds picking up newly fallen cottonwood branches.

We have about 5 black walnuts along the property line and they also drop lots of branches. They also drop tons of walnuts all over the yard. It's easy to turn an ankle on them! Plus they spread all over and seedlings pop up everywhere thanks to the squrrels.

Dave

Someone said they weren't sure how Ailanthus would do in California.

Here in So Cal it's an aggressive weed. So is Chinaberry. I have neighbors that grow both.

In my area any weak wooded or shallow rooted tree should be banned. The winds here are pretty wild.

Sweet gum is lovely but I see them blown over every year. There is also some sort of blight that commonly kills whole trees.

I live on forty acres in Oklahoma, am planning an orchard, and disagree that many of these trees should not be planted.

Crabapples are used in cider - they have an intense flavor. They are also good pollinator trees for other apples.

The eleagnus bushes are currently being promoted as fruit bushes - easy edible landscaping plant. If you harvest the berries, spreading is less likely. Though, in fairness, I do admit this probably isn't a great idea.

Mimosas are nitrogen fixers, so are a good interplanting choice for a permaculture orchard garden. Also, the half of my property that is not a part of the oak forest is some land that was destroyed during the Dust Bowl and it's just now recovering a little bit, but the soil quality is so poor; Mimosas will improve it. And they won't spread to the forest because it's too dark.

On my lot, silver maples grow in the margins of the oak forest, and can be harvested for syrup.

The only plants I dislike are arborvitaes, because they are a menace to our oak forests and they carry cedar apple rust.

I even like lombardy poplars. There are very few where I live, but my neighbor has three old trees, and they have neither disease nor suckering problems.

I do, however, understand that your demographic is probably suburban homeowners.