I'm not sure about their performance in your area but Crataegus crusgalli 'Crusader' loves the sun and does well in clay soils.

Interesting horizontal branching structure, spring flowers, red fruit (drops quickly though, birds eat them here) and fall color.

I totally agree that your clay soil appears to drain well. That clay means a death sentence for plants is a myth. Some of the best agricultural soils in this country are clay based. Drainage IS the key, of course. Clay soil can drain perfectly well.

We have very dense clay soil in our yard. When it's dry, a pick ax is not even a good tool to use to dig a hole, and I am NOT exaggerating! It does drain well, however. Even after days of rainfall, our yard is not sodden after just a few hours.

We've planted many trees, shrubs, perennials, veggies, and annuals in this clay over the years. Only the large planting beds have been amended (once). All of the trees and shrubs are installed with no soil 'improvements' whatsoever and all have thrived wonderfully. We've planted a variety of conifers, elm, maple, and gingko in full blazing Alabama sun.

Instead of Shantung maple what's being planted a lot here are one or two of the Keith Warren hybrids between Shantung and Norway maples. Streets are being lined with them in the Seattle area.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pacific Sunset® Maple

I agree with the Warren maples being an alternative. I also agree that the shantung and Acer griseum are good choices, but the best idea is to look at specimens nearby and to the south. Why to the south?

The most important thing, in my view, is the changing climate in Cascadia and the summers are getting warmer, and the rain events are getting stronger. The tree must be able to make it through Aug and Sept and the shantung will do that. I suppose in OR Z7, there is also a greater chance for a heavy wet snow as well. If you want fall color, avoid the Maackia genus in general (no M. chinensis).

Aside, related to Maackia is Cladastris, and Cladastris kentuckea is starting to be more widely planted in WA. Check it out.

Dan

I'm not even going to pretend that I know how trees grow or what they need so I hope to have an arborist or knowlegable gardener onboard until I do. For now, which of these trees (Ginko Princeton Sentry, Acer Griseum, Shantung Maple or Maackia) will potentially get a decent height and girth so as not to look like a stick and provide both beauty and shade within 5 years or less? Yeah, I'm inpatient. I could possibly go with a bigger one to begin with provided it can be done (the planting and stuff).

What should I be looking for to make sure the landscaper or nursery is providing me the best?

Small trees at planting in general catch up to large trees at planting - the money on larger trees at planting is generally wasted.

Dan

The exception to the larger tree rule is if the trees are slow growing, then the smaller trees will not catch up to the larger trees during the establishment period.

As for shade in five years, you can probable leave the Ginkgo out unless you buy a really large one. Of the four you list, the Shantung is the most likely to please in 5 years or less IMHO. But I have also seen Pacific Sunset Maples grow and astounding amount in one summer, so that might be a better choice for you. Acer grieum is purportedly slow growing, though ours grew feet this past growing season. Probable would need to look to see how well they grow locally.

Arktrees

Cleveland Select Pear Tree does wonderful in clay

I am in agreement with Dan regarding the benefit of purchasing a younger, smaller tree. In 5 years' time, the younger (smaller) tree is likely to have out grown the older one in size. It simply takes the smaller tree much less time to become established in its new site. Once established, (which can take a few months to a couple of years, depending upon the size of the tree) top growth accelerates pretty dramatically.

It takes a great deal of energy from the tree to support the tree body AND grow a new root system. Larger trees can even take a few steps backwards in development because of this, exhibiting tip die-back, defoliation, or worse. A smaller tree can pretty much sail through the establishment period with little stress.

For your interest, attached is a performance review and decription of Purpleblow Maple (Acer truncatum/Shantung) at the University of Alabama Huntsville. This is a maple that the Director raves about. It's planted, unamended, in heavy clay, by the way.

Here is a link that might be useful: Click here

"For now, which of these trees (Ginko Princeton Sentry, Acer Griseum, Shantung Maple or Maackia) will potentially get a decent height and girth so as not to look like a stick and provide both beauty and shade within 5 years or less? "

princeton sentry: No. Note this is a columnar form (15x50')

Paperpark: heck no. Very slow growing

purpleblow/shantung: I'm sure Lou will post some photos

Maackia: Unfamiliar with this.

You need to be looking a trees with a rapid growth rate if you want some shade in that time frame.

I understand what everyone is saying about fast growing trees being weaker, etc. The list I gave (Ginko Princeton Sentry, Acer Griseum, Shantung Maple or Maackia) was suggested by my landscape architect.

Maybe instead of shade, I should say "sun blocking." The corner of my yard where I plan to put the tree gets the hottest part of the sun in early to mid afternoon, so the tree needs to get fairly tall to block it; however, I have put in solar shades on the patio to help combat this so perhaps asthetics plays a larger role at this point. I only have twenty feet from that corner to the house.

Does this information change any of your suggestions? I'm feeling fairly lost at this point. I had a Crape Myrtle there but pulled it because it was single trunked and looked pretty weak.

In general landscape architects don't know enough about plant "materials", as they call them to be a good source for the best recommendations of trees for a specific home garden situation. This limitation does, of course, vary - I know a veteran landscape architect who is also a retail nurseryman and gardener.

The high pH of your soil and the fact that you find it convenient enough to have gone to forestfarm, but have not made it to Greer Gardens makes me think you are in the Rogue Valley. Where in the Rogue Valley you are will affect the weather conditions for tree growth you have. Even Ashland and Medford have significantly different environments, although crops and garden plants do have the benefit of irrigation - unlike the native vegetation.

Multiple nursery sources for Shantung maple were listed in The Plant Locator - Western Region sourcebook published in 2004 by Black-Eyed Susans/Timber Press. One of these was forestfarm.

One Shantung maple tree at the University of Washington in Seattle was over 43' tall around 2005. There are few other examples known here.

Much will depend on what you want and how much your willing to spend. What rhizo said about smaller will catch larger trees over 5 years is true for FASTER growing trees. However if you do the math for a slow growing tree like ginkgo, then the smaller tree will never catch the larger tree.

i.e.
2" caliper ginkgo ~14' takes probable 4 years to begin growing normally

.75" caliper 6' tall ginkgo will take 2 years to grow normally. That leaves 2 years where the smaller tree is growing MAYBE 18"/yr. So it will add maybe 3' before the bigger tree starts growing normally at 18"/yr itself.

So at the end of 5 years.
2" calliper Ginkgo will be 14'+1.5'= 15.5' total
0.75" caliper Ginkgo will be 6'+4.5'=10.5' total and much smaller volume

Both growing normally at that time, and the smaller one will not catch the larger planted tree any time soon. Plus the tree will be more useful to you from the start.

Arktrees Arktrees JMHO
Arktrees

I won't do another anti-LArch rant here, but suffice it to say they don't teach most of them any plant knowledge in school these days. They have standard lists and parrot those. The suggestions by commenters here will serve you well. The alternative is visiting an arboretum nearby and taking good notes, then using something like Sunset Western Garden Book to verify its cultural requirements. And if you are growing crape myrtle, you definitely want to look to the south. Not something severe like Redding, but you get the idea.

Dan

Someone mentioned Cladastris kentuckea. Add that to your list. Find a speciman that doesn't have too many v-crotches.

That, Shatung or Shatung hybrid are good choices. I think your tree selection issue is solved.

Danell,
Your state has a very wide range of climates. What does well in one part of your state will totally do poorly in another part of the state. There are some very knowledgeable people here from that region. They can help you better if you say where you're located. Approximately. Like a city name.

The trees your architect picked out are desirable trees however if you're looking for something that will look good from day one, and become an effective sun screen within a reasonable amount of time, you need to look at other options. If you want more options, re-read the last paragraph. If you want fewer options, and that's entirely possible seeing as how you're in the epicenter of horticulture and every tree known to man seems to be available there, I once again suggest that you drive around your area looking at trees that are doing what you need to do. If you don't know what they're called (or even if you do), post some pictures here and you will get feedback on them.

And if you want even more options, post a picture of where you are wanting to plant the tree and you'll have more responses than you know what to do with.

The Keith Warren maple hybrids develop rapidly. But no tree will provide an instant large area of shade, only a structure can do that. Do you want to cook while you wait years for the tree to grow, or do you really need to install some kind of architectural solution?

Thank you for the math Arktrees. Given I only have 20 feet from planting area to house, a 2-3 inch caliper/14 foot Ginko may be the ticket. It will do well in the clay and heat; get the height needed to block sun while not encroaching on the house, good fall color and basically a trouble free tree.

The comments here confirm my research, the Shantung (or its hybrid) is a great tree that will grow a bit faster but the trade off is more width. Some considerations that go with that are lawn adaptation, neighbor's space, leaves on roof, etc.

While I have a good relationship with my landscape architect, I knew I needed to do my own research and verification. Everyone's input has been valuable.

I have been at this for what seems like a year, having driven around and researched dozens of trees, soil, cultural requirements, etc. with the feeling I was just going in circles because of my lack of knowledge. I'm beginning to feel more confident and that is partly due to Gardenweb folks like you.

Gardningrandma, I may want more options because as you say I prefer something that
"will look good from day one, and become an effective
sun screen within a reasonable amount of time."

So I'll do a bit more research on columnar/fastigate type trees and perhaps try to post a picture after the holidays (I'll have to get a friend over with digital camera) but doubt I can beat the Ginko. Is that a safe assumption?

Happy Holidays everyone!!

P.S. Your good bboy, I am in the Rogue Valley. White City actually.

bboy, you're right I don't want to cook while waiting for a good tree to grow. Perhaps you did not read that I had intalled solar shades on patio. I also put in misters and insulated the patio cover. Now I can actually sit outside for much, much longer than 5 minutes without feeling like I have to escape the inferno.

Somewhat unrelated and may be a dumb question but what is the point of an LArch when it comes to residential applications?

The designers (which are mainly horticulturists in my area) at the nusery seem to be the way to go.

Princeton sentry is a nice form in maturity.
Again, this is a slow growing species. Somewhat rare and expensive. And even though there appears to be some debate about the cultural requirements of this tree, I have not seen any thrive in compacted and poorly draining soil. I have seen them do well in other soil types however. I would agree your soil is not that bad, but just about everything comes in a columnar form, if that's what you want. With the average time people live in their houses in this country being only 7 years, there is nothing to be ashamed of with picking a fast growing tree.

Thanks gardnigrandma perhaps you can throw me a bone, what moderate to fast growing columnar trees would you suggest I consider?

I did a quick research of those mentioned here:
* Cladastris Kentuckea � Too wide
* Crataegus Crusgalli �Crusader� � Good option but No. It will be planted next to three Juniperis V. Monbells on
one side and either one Juniper Moonglow or Baby Blue Eyes Spruce on the other.
* Pacific Sunset Maple � Possibly too wide

So far the Princeton Sentry, while slow growing is the best options I�ve found so far. IF I decide to go with a wider tree I have those options under control (Shantung or Maackia) but would like to consider other options for a narrower tree, remember I only have 20 feet from plating area to the house.

Whaas, are you sure you want an answer to that question? Maybe it is a sign of the economy but the last designer I worked with ended with the BBB and my attorney for breach and defamation. Remember the 20-20 spot on the BBB? Yeah well this particular designer became a member afterward and had her rating changed to an A - this with a breach and unlawful activity. Designers need not be licensed, LArchs do. . . Now back to the columnar type trees.

danell,
Gardeninggrandma in another thread a couple weeks ago admitted to having no real experience with Ginkgos, nor understanding the affinity for them. Not saying that she has no useful information, she is correct that many species have a columnar form available. However your climate your climate will preclude many or most of them. Less than 20 inches annual rainfall, that falls mostly predominately outside the growing season will eliminate many to most species regardless of columnar form or not. In regards to the maturity question, most all of them are more impressive as large mature plants. But that is why you either hire a landscaper and specify that it be full, balanced in form, and very healthy, or you choose the one you want yourself. In the case of Ginkgo's, there are 2" caliper trees that while healthy, I would not pay $50 for, while another I MIGHT pay $300. That's why I don't like buying too much mail order, as I have had those that have a "great reputation" butcher the plants that I bought so that they could save a dollar on a smaller box (you have been to see them).

One thing that I think is being missed here is that there is not ONE most perfect plant. There is a group of possibles with much depending upon personal preferences, fiancees, and availability. For you if you are happy with the thought of a Princeton Sentry Ginkgo, and you can find one that fits visually what you want, then be done with it. If you rather have something else, then do that. There comes a point where you make a choice and don't look back. You did that buying the house, you do that buying a TV, you do that every day. This is no different.

Last thing I will add, is that until established, anything you plant will require care, They also will be somewhat thin in leaf as well. Plants will put everything into regenerating the root system, and not into shoot growth, or anything else. Just wanted to be certain you are aware of this fact. Also our Princeton Sentry Ginkgo grew 15" taller this year (the most so far) and was far far more dense than in previous years. The leaves of PS are also purported to be larger than standard ginkgo (this may or may not matter to you). Lastly, Magyar is another columnar form of Ginkgo that you may come across.

JMHO
Arktrees

Funny, I was just thinking the same thing. Make a choice and move on.

Don't go putting words in my mouth, arktrees.

Find that thread where I admitted not having experience with them. I've had plenty of experience with ginkgo.
My opinion of them being overrated is one that is certainly in the minority but when it comes to facts, anyone can clearly see the consensus of online article is that ginkgos do better in well drained soils.

It sounds like you've lost patience with Danell's indecision. I have not and I'm still here and willing to help danell make up his or her mind. They are in OR, not AR. They don't need to rush this decision or settle for trees that are not appropriate for the site.

gardeningrandma,
I will apologize for what can be viewed as a personal attack. Was not intended that way. The link below is primarily where I got my impression of your stance on ginkgos, but it's entirely possible I did some lumping together and added some confusion. Yes they do better in good drainage, and danell got 9-10 inches of per hour drainage in her test whole. That's great drainage clay or not.

As for my advice to danell about making a choice, he/she can do whatever they like. But they had noted that they had been going around this for a while, and sounded rather frustrated by it. Therefore the best "advice" sometimes is just to make a choice, and that was exactly what I gave her. If I "lost patience" then I would have simply not bothered to respond any longer. Read the rest of my response to her about her climate and species selection. I think you will see that I have a reasonable understanding of the pacific northwest climate (i.e. much of the rain is outside of the growing season).

Cheers,
Arktrees

Here is a link that might be useful: ginkgo discussion

I'm talking desingers that are employed at the nurseries.

Taxodium distichum 'Shawnee Brave' or Quercus robur x Q. alba 'Crimschmidt' should go well with your junipers.

I think at this point you'll have too many choices for just 1 spot. You need to take those suggestions to the nursery, see what they have and go from there.

I still favor the Ginkgo choice BUT you need to see them in person before you can commit!

Everyone has been most kind and the comments here are all well taken. Again, thank you.

I have done a lot of research, as my posts to this and other forums will bear out, while sometimes frustrated the exercise has been good. I know now more and have three excellent trees to choose from, two wider forms and one fastigate. I had hoped to have at least one other fastigate form with moderate to fast growth to choose from yet the more I read up on the Ginkgo the more I doubt I will find a better one.

If I go with a 2-3" caliper as suggested by Arktrees and have some patience I believe it will be worth the wait. Kind of like the delayed gratification and patience of getting through college.

You're all super!!!

Just in case you missed it, both Taxodium distichum 'Shawnee Brave' and Quercus robur x Q. alba 'Crimschmidt' are columnar cultivars.

The bald cypress is fairly fast growing.

I have a the oak mentioned above and I'm pleased with it so far. It does retain its leaves year round. I used to think that was a drawback and in some cases it may be. In my case it offers some privacy during the winter.

Arktrees, I accept your apology.

danell,
One last possibility occurred to me today. American Smoke Tree Continus obovatus. May be a little wide for you, but they are nice, can take allot of heat and drought (due to their natural habitat), and grow at a reasonable rate. A little tougher to find, but being where you are, I'm sure you would be able to get a nice sized one. Ours is growing about 2'/year.

You still won't go wrong with your other choices, I just happen to think of the smoke tree today, and wanted to at least give you the option.

Arktrees

I live in alkaline clay in the Dallas area. My favorite, alkaline, drought tolerant, and just so happens, rapidly growing trees that are rock solid specimens and beautiful, include Shantung Naple, native central texas or mexican Baldcypress (note, most baldcypress cultivars are for acid soil only), and the Chinese Pistachio. CP needs to be pruned early on, otherwise it produces codominant leaders.

All three of these specimens rapidly adjust in Texas tough weather. You can order the baldcypress from a native type nursery in the central texas area. There is a very rare weeping form of mexican BC at Madrone's nursery in the hill country, they're the ones that discovered it and the only ones that I know carry it.
The baldcypress, although an ugly duckling for a few years like the gingko, imo, is ten times prettier than a ginkgo by ten years of age. They should do very well where you live, the three examples of trees I give you are rock solid under stress and the wrong pH.

Gingkos are grown here as well, but rival the beauty of my favorite three trees here, imo, no way surpass them. The gingko is extinct in the wild, btw...

One thing I would say, as well, is to stick with an organic program in alkaline clay, trees and plants become more drought tolerant with such a program for some reason, too complicated to explain here today...

A gingko should never be planted as a main shade tree, it's simply too slow. The alkaline clay is going to slow it down some more. Many trees will not budge in it, but these are three examples that absolutely thrive.

The Rogue Valley has extremely dry air in summer, except where humidity is generated by turf irrigation or open water. Anything from/doing well in eastern North America, southeast Asia etc. will need generous irrigation for an indefinite period.

Okay, okay don't kill me. I'm still looking. The Shantung and Maackia are great, very desirable trees but I'm hoping to find another columnar option, other than the SLOW growing Ginko. Anywhere from 24-45 tall x 15-20 wide. I've posted pictures of my yard and proposed/rough planting plan to help.

What about Acer campestre 'Panacek' I understand it is a fast growing, desirable tree that can withstand the alkaline clay and sun. Any problems with this tree?

Quercus robur x Q. alba 'Crimschmidt' was suggested above and I'm currently researching it.

I looked at the Armstrong and Bowhall Maples but deleted from list because of surface roots, possible breakage issues and dislike for alkaline soil. Zelkova serrata 'Musashino' is a strong trouble-free tree but I don't like the look of it. Other suggestions?

Here is a link that might be useful: Planting Plan & Back Yard photos

Seattle plantings of the oak hybrid have been a bit blah, the red dull and the dead leaves lingering.

Seems like this might have come up but I see columnar Swedish aspen here fairly often. Not a noble tree but faster growing. You might like it just fine.

If it likes you and your site.

Quercus robur x Q. alba 'Crimschmidt'...the fall color is not that strong here either. Its strong suite is its attractive stately presence the entire growing season.

It may be a personal preference but I love the brown leaves that hang on...provides winter interest.

Also, not that it last through its entire adult life but the textured, peely bark is quite interesting as well.

Taxodium distichum 'Shawnee Brave' would still be my top choice...depending on the actual level of ph. The plant could struggle in levels 10 or higher (I believe).

Another choice is Liriodendron tulipifera 'Fastigiatum'. I can't recall what all the requirements where...post has gotten quite long.

danell,
Are you going to water during the dry season? It's going to take allot of summer watering for many of the new selections suggested.

Arktrees

Texas A&M has been experimenting with different species of shade trees for about 100 years that will grow in hot weather and alkaline soil. There are less than ten, but several are awesome, I mentioned three studs but it seems to go in one collective ear and out the other.

I'm amazed at all of the ideas suggested here by otherwise meaningful and helpful folks who liely live in neutral or acidic soil and milder summers. By trying out these suggestions, what's going to happen is that you'll set yourself back a few years as you come to discover your sick, chlorotic tree will have to be removed and you'll have to start all over again.

Wishing that a tree will grow does not make it so. People move here from other parts of the country all the time, they plant what they liked in their previous state, and it ends up being a real disaster as far as accomplishing one's goal of actually providing shade.

I've lived here for 25 years and trust me, it's a sad thing that people often have to see for themselves, before they give in and embrace what mother nature has to offer rather than defying her wishes. And anything with a pH above 7.5 is considered highly alkaline. A pH of 10 would dissolve the bottom of one's shoes.

Alkaline soil naturally draws water out of the roots, and the tree species or cultivar must have evolved in an alkaline soil for millions of years in order to develop special biochemical mechanisms to counter this effect. In an acidic soil, water naturally is drawn into roots with little effort from the tree.

It's a 100 percent failure every time, and a real eyesore until the new homeowner finally succumbs to the reality of a pH that the tree cannot handle. You either embrace mother nature, or you defy her, she always has the final say. I was guilty of the same, and only hope to pass on my experience...

Mackel in dfw your suggestions are not being ignored - they are simply too large. I have already said the Shantung is a highly desirable tree and Might consider it if I don't find a narrower option; and resign myself to having branches and leaves near the roof.

Thank you bboy, I will look up the columnar Swedish Aspen.

Good comments and additional things to consider about the Quercus robur x Q. alba 'Crimschmidt'

I did look at the Liriodendron tulipifera 'Fastigiatum' and though I can't recall now why my notes only indicate "problems"

Yes Arktrees, I know I will have to irrigate well until tree is established. It may seem obsessive to some but I want to narrow down the best choices and that means being persistent.

Whaas, just how wide does the Shawnee Brave get? The US Forsetry fact sheet indicates 25-30 which is much too wide.

Any comments on the Acer campestre 'Panacek' or other suggestions?

You're right Waas this is getting quite long. Perhaps a new post "Tall Narrow Tree for Clay Soil"

Gads don't give up on me.

Mackel,

There are a lot more than ten trees that work in alkaline soil and hot weather. I don't know where you get your info. from Texas A&M but you are wrong and most of the prof. there just draw a pay check.

You're probably right dricha, no doubt, but a "shade tree" where you're from is probably more like a bush in an alkaline, drought stricken climate. I'm no aggie either, they are chemical people while I stick to organics. According to A&M, here is a list of long lived, deciduous "shade trees" for Dallas (very similar to OP's climate):

Large:

Baldcypress
Bur Oak
Cedar Elm
Chinquapin Oak
Lacebard Elm
Live Oak
Pecan
Shumard Oak
Texas Red Oak

Small to Medium:

Chinese Pistachio
Soapberry

This is not a comprehensive list.

Stop it mackel, you are not helping and you're only making this post longer than need be. I am not looking for a shade tree in Dallas and your list does not meet my specifics.

bboy, I checked out the Swedish columnar aspen and yes, it is a possible if a bit too narrow (LOL), and it has fewer problems supposedly that other populars.

I also found the Carpinus Betulas 'Franz Fontaine' An excellent option but another slow grower. I've also heard it does not lose its leaves in winter? Is that correct? It's deciduous.

Gardning grandma you still there? You said it was not shameful to look for a faster growing tree and that you would be here to help. Any actual suggestions for a tall, narrow tree for my Ph of 7-7.5 clay in hot, western exposure with fair drainage?

Anyone have experience/knowledge of the Acer campestre 'Panacek'?

Good luck Danell you're going to have problems due to drought with these hyped up cultivars. There are pin oaks at the Dallas arboretum because a private owner planted them before he gave away his estate to the city. With a pH of 7.5 there they look sick all of the time, they should be cut down, they're never a pretty shade of green.

Aspen? Stop listening to merchants trying to part you of your hard earned money. Find someone who has successfully grown something in your microclimate is the best advice as has been mentioned. Has anybody here claimed to have experience with your microclimate? No, they're just trying to be helpful.

Even gingko is fairly chlorotic in 7.5 ph and drought. Alakaline + drought is a very heady combination, I've spent many years experimenting with plants and trees in similar circumstances, I guess you'll have to listen to your heart and find out for yourself.

All of your choices are stunningly beautiful and if I thought they'd work I'd plant them myself, no doubt. If I'm wrong about anyting I'm saying I'll be the first one to man up about it, free advice is just that but you and I have the same basic microclimate.

I have no idea why I typed 10 for ph.

Most plants will grow well in ph 7 to 7.4. Once you get to 7.5 and higher it can stunt plant growth and for some plants they can suffer from chlorosis (some worse than others).

All the trees I mentioned grow very well in ph 7 to 7.4 clay soils.

It would be many many years (would it even be possible?) to get Shawnee Brave to hit 25' wide in the type of soil you have. Again the clay, alkaline soil slows growth.

Agree, I'd take the Tulip Tree off the list now that you've recapped the cultural requirements.

Grandma here...

I have a frans fontaine hornbeam. It definitely loses its leaves in the winter. It drops them late though.
What you may be thinking of is that european hornbeam is so densely branched that it gives some degree of screening even when there are no leaves.
Mine grows about 2 feet a year in the shade. That's not what I would consider fast but it isn't slow either. Your mileage may vary. And 'fastigiata' might grow faster for you. (pyramid shape instead of upright oval)

The Rogue Valley definitely looks forested so that's great. I was thinking you were in a desert.
OSU has a publication titled 'Southwestern Oregon Tree Selection Guide for Coos, Curry, Douglas, Jackson, and Josephine Counties'

On Page 30, it lists narrow trees under 30' that are suited to the area.
Unfortunately they charge $2.50 for the publication and the preview only goes up to about page 7.

I would start by ordering or downloading this publication. It looks very thorough from what I can see of it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Southwestern Oregon Tree Selection Guide for Coos, Curry, Douglas, Jackson, and Josephine Counties

Actually danell the point I was making about watering is that you never said, and that many of the made suggestions will ALWAYS require ALLOT of watering in your climate even when "established".

Arktrees

The most drought tolerant tree that seems to fit the OP's requirements which I have ever grown is Pistacia chinensis. After planting it in the spring, I watered it three times and let it go. Within a month, the temperature hit 100 and stayed there for months. No supplemental watering. It'll grow in the desert. It's a rapid grower and long lived. It stands up to high winds.

It's a centerpiece tree in my front yard. It stays dark, dark green no matter what. It has beautiful fall coloring. All the neighbors love it.

As mentioned earlier, it needs some pruning to keep a strong central leader as a youth.

Here is a link that might be useful: First shade tree to win A&M's

Oh, that is what you meant about watering Arktrees. Dang, the publication I have is "Trees for Inland Southern Oregon" and I tried to look at only those that were listed as being drought tolerant; Maackia, Shantung, Ginko and Carpinus betula - is it wrong?

Tell me, where does one look for the cultural requirements for specific trees? The publication above did not list things like ph or soil and neither my design instructor or L-Arch knew about some like the Shantung. "The Western Garden Book" barely touches what is required.

Gardningrandma, thanks for the link. I had looked at that publication about a year ago - but only the 7 or so pages I could see online. I'll order the whole booklet and hope it helps clarify some things.

Mackel, the Pistacia chinensis is listed as a good tree for this area. Kudos. I looked at it before and thought it might get too big (remember there is only 20 feet from planting area to house and being in the corner of yard, will be overhanging the yards of three neighbors). Do you think it will get more than say 20 wide and what about litter?

You all are so good about hanging in there with me. Thank you. Know that I have been trying to do my own research, perhaps I just don't know where to start. I took a design class, went to tree school (but that turned out to be more about forestry and pruning), bought books and publications that list trees for this area but again not specific to cultural requirements.

I think the European hornbeam is an excellent choice. It is very tolerant of a range of conditions (including pH) and once established, very drought tolerant. You will need to provide summer irrigation for at least the first two growing seasons - after that it should be good to go :-) Does well in both full sun and considerable summer heat. And a pretty much trouble-free tree. It is fully deciduous - the leaves turn a rather bright golden color in fall before dropping - but it produces a dense, mostly upright branch and twig structure that makes it an effective screening tree even in winter.

I like both C. betulus 'Fastigiata' and 'Frans Fontaine' with 'FF' being a significantly narrower growing clone. It is a Great Plants Pick, indicating it performs well and should be readily available throughout the PNW. And you can often find this selection locally at a pretty good size to begin with, though it does grow relatively rapidly should you want to start smaller.

Maximum width is listed at 25 feet, Danell, so I don't know if that's a real big issue for you or not. Mine is still a juvenille.

The leaves fall in a fairly short period of time during autumn, and during the growing season stay put, less litter than virtually anything I grow.

Let me share another passion of mine, I always mow anything that falls, back into the soil, being a strict organic adherent. Synthetic fertilizers can actually compound the problems with salts naturally present in alkaline soils, synthetic fertilizer is just that, salts.

I also inoculate the soil with dried molasses and a soil microorganism product three times a year. The organic approach appears to dramatically increase drought tolerance in my experience, in a similar microclimate as yours.