I read that Papillio likes to be quite top of the ground, so don't burry much of it. Mine is out in the flower bed and does very well. Don't forget that it is an evergreen species, so you don't have to force it. It will keep leaves all year round and sometimes decide to flower for you.
Excellent seed-producer.

I'm glad you posted that, soultan... I actually did leave a good portion of the bulb on top of the soil, so I'm happy to know that I did it right. All of my bulbs have at least one third above the soil level in their pots, and they are all doing well.

A good seed producer? Hmmmm... I can see I'll have to learn more about breeding these beauties!

I only had one sets of flowers from it and from Papillio Improved. Both of them generated generous amount of seeds, even though they were pollinated with various type of flowers (giant, double, miniature, cybister). So I guess Papillio is almost ready to take any kind of pollen.

As soon as I feel that I know enough to try, and have enough of the right sized plants to do so, I plan on trying my hand at breeding these beauties!

I'm still in the learning stage, though... and then, I have to wait for blooms from which to gather the pollen, figure out which crosses I think would be good ones to make, etc...

It all takes time, but while waiting for my collection to grow and my bulbs to bloom, I will be doing a lot of reading on plant genetics, pollination techniques, germination of seeds, and anything else I need to know to be successful.

Knowledge, and experience, is the key to success!

You see... You are better than I am. I don't care about the genetics here... I really want to be surprised when they mature and start flowering. I am not planning to sell the bulbs, but rather give them away for charity, so no matter how they look, they will make someone happy... It is exciting.

Jodik,
you mentioned that you were planting in a pot. What size
pot? Papilio is a tree dweller as well as ground dweller.
Not only does it like to have only its roots planted, but
when it is in a pot larger than 4 or 6 inches it often skips the first year bloom and will not bloom until it fills the pot with enough offset (daughter) bulbs to feel
crowded. It does not do this if you can plant outdoor in a garden bed or in a coconut fiber basket with leaves, orchid
mix, & sand.
Bill

I have it planted in a very small clay pot, one that isn't very tall and leaves about an inch from bulb to pot side. I believe it's a 4 inch. I'll bump it as is grows. I used a very good potting soil that allows for good drainage, and I have most of the bulb sticking out of the soil. I'm fairly certain I did a good job with it.

I'm in zone 5 and can't grow them outdoors all year round. Even if I could, there are too many variables here, and I would worry about the safety of my bulbs! There are barn cats, lots of dogs, moles, voles, mice, and a host of other garden pests... I feel safer knowing that they are protected on my windowsill.

I am patient when it comes to gardening... I can wait until it gets a bit root bound before it blooms. But thank you for the advice, anyway! I am enjoying learning about these bulbs. :-)

Maybe, since it tends to slow down in growing in the Summer, it will concentrate on the roots first, then gives you the flower later... I think that would be beneficial for it and you could get better bloom. Mine bloomed really quick on short scapes, two flowers on the scape... I was not really impressed.

I think you're probably right, soultan. It's most likely growing under the soil first, as most plants do. Once the roots hit the sides of the pot, it may decide to grow leaves or set scapes... I'll be happy with either, just knowing that someday it will produce those beautiful blooms!

I experience problems with freshly planted bulbs that do not have substantial root system. Their scapes tend to be short or even super short, so that they bloom right at the neck a the bulb. Oddly enough, it almost only happens to my pink varieties.

Both of my larger bulbs, Minerva and Apple Blossom, seemed to take the time to establish root systems before scape growth occurred, evidenced by the fact that they didn't bloom right away. I do believe, however, that Apple Blossom was of shorter stature than Minerva.

Since Papilio is considered evergreen, I'd bet that root production is first, then leaves. Now that it's September, it is moving back into growth mode, and has decided to throw up a leaf.

I just thought of something... do you suppose that it's a characteristic of the pink flowered varieties to tend to bloom even without substantial root systems? And if that is so, do you suppose the scape height is a product of having not enough roots to support a tall plant?

I really don't know. I am just saying that Pink Surprise, Pink Impression, Pink Blossom all brought the same bulbneck blooms for me. Quite disappointing.

Ya, I'd say so... especially when you expect fairly tall scapes... hmmm.

I blame it right now on the long rest period that I forced on the bulbs. I wonder if they will perform better for me next, coming season. Vivaldi also bloomed faulty for me, so I can't even know if it is Vivaldi indeed or not. My bulbs are still bringing up the scapes and bloom for me, but the booms are not that pretty and I see a lot of aborts, so I must conclude that almost a year of rest is not beneficial to the bulbs... (Not that I ever thought it would be.)

So, what would be considered the proper amount of rest? Let's say I planted mine out in the spring, then dug them in fall... they'd be stored for about 6 months, give or take, if I didn't force them again for Christmas bloom. That's about half a year in cool storage or a dark, dry place. And I read that if you grow them and force them to bloom more than once a year, they tend to go downhill...

So, given all that, what would be considered beneficial rest to the bulbs?

I believe that the 6-8 weeks that the growers keep their stock in the cold storage facilities is about the right amount of rest period for amaryllis bulbs.

The Papilio that has been performing so good for me and pics taken off was planted in a gallon pot for it's first 8-10 months. Rested and lost all it's leaves summer 2006. Started new growth end of that summer and was repotted in an 8 inch clay pot. It had a LOT of roots. After that, it has not been repotted and was continously grown inside the house last winter and now outside in a cooler spot. It is in the process of leafing out now with 4 babies. Maybe it's time to check it's roots and repot to next size pot.

So then, probably anything beyond 8 weeks would be pushing it... although a bit longer most likely wouldn't hurt.

I've never grown anything that needed to be dug up out of the garden and stored, not even a Canna. I've never forced bulbs of any kind, either. I was always afraid that I wouldn't do something right, and the bulb or tuber wouldn't survive.

The Amaryllis is the only bulb I've ever had that COULD be forced, and I was relieved to find that it could also be grown as a houseplant without giving it a dormant period.

I don't know why, but I just have a phobia about forcing something out of its element. I just don't want to kill anything like that unnecessarily. I know I could probably do it without bad results, but I just don't want to risk it.

I am not killing them and I have been forcing them 8-9 month dormancy this year.

This is true... I'm just paranoid, I know. Maybe I'll try a Canna or something like that this coming spring. Get a feel for how it's done.

I know a better idea: Canna is not exactly like amaryllis... Go to Home Depot or Loews or some places like this where flower is just a mass product and not treasured like in a garden shop and buy one 4-5 dollars bulb kit and try it on that. The variety will be easily replaceable and you don't lose that much money if your fears come true? How about that?

That's a thought... although, I'll probably get it home and decide I like it too much, and I won't want to risk it! But it's a good suggestion, and I just might try it! Let me see what kind of clearance price I can get on a kit...

Then buy two identical $5 bulbs. Make one bloom and experiment with the other. How about that?

You're just bound and determined to get me to plant an amaryllis out in the garden, aren't you?! LOL!

Ok, ok... I shall plant at least one outside next spring when the weather breaks. And I shall tend it all summer... and then when the weather gets cooler, I shall dig it up and bring it in!

Then will you be happy that I tried it?! LOL! :-)

I don't care. :o)
I am sure it is you who wants to make yourself happy. :o)
I am not really good at it. I always expect others to make me happy. Maybe I refuse to rely on myself... And at the same time, I am on my own since I was 18. I never own money and try not to lend ever... But I am doing fine for myself. So relying myself is different from making myself happy... Yesterday, someone called me a philosopher laughingly... Maybe I think too much.

Actually, I'm glad you talked me into it... and out of my fear of losing one little bulb.

My husband told me today that he thinks I definitely have OCD. He says it shows in my gardening habits, both indoors with my houseplants, and outdoors with my perennial beds. He says it also shows in any job I tackle; I won't do something halfway or if I can't do it 100%. And I get frustrated to the point of throwing a tantrum if I can't get things done right!

I guess I am a little compulsive when it comes to how I get things done. I can't stand a shoddy job! I just always thought it was because I was taught that any job worth doing is worth doing well. That was my Dad's favorite line, and it really made an impression on me.

I wouldn't say you think too much. There's nothing wrong with thinking things through very thoroughly. "It's all in the details", the saying goes... and thinking things through is what gets the details of anything included and properly done.

Judging by what I've read here in this forum, you've done very well for yourself! You deserve a lot of credit, coming from nothing, and at a very young age, and accomplishing all you have. That takes a lot of inner strength and resolve, and a lot of brains and common sense. You obviously know that hard work and sticking to what you believe in will get you somewhere in life.

I am going to plant at least one bulb in the garden next spring, regardless of whether or not it might die. Things happen that are beyond our control, but we'll never know unless we try.

I am doing well with my OCD... I just started it again with buying this new batch of bulbs... Now there is no stop to it till the end of January-February.

That's when my bulbs will be in full bloom... right around February.

Unfortunately, I am a perfectionist year round. I did get a lot done today, though... I finished removing the sod from the bulb garden area, and I've begun to bring in the soil amendments by the wheelbarrow load. Tomorrow, I shovel sand and compost all afternoon! Yippee...

By February, I will start already planting the bulbs out.

That would be nice... to be able to work out in the garden in February. That's why it's so nice to have my amaryllis bloom then... it's still cold and damp outside with snow and ice everywhere! Everywhere except my window sill, which is full of giant blooms!

February should not be too wet here anymore. If I don't have big rains anymore, I plant out. February 15th.

Our cut-off date for frost is May 15, or right around there. I usually start seeds for perennials, vegetables and annuals way before then, although not too early or they wind up stretched in the flats. This next year should be different because I'll have the grow lights to help. I've also got a small heat mat ordered, so that should help even more. It will certainly make a big difference in how quickly my cuttings root.

I had really good luck growing perennials from seed this last season. Some years I can't seem to get decent germination. But like I said, next time should be much better with the bottom heat and the lighting.

Will you start your amaryllis seeds the same way or you start them right away now and overwinter them?

From what I've heard so far about amaryllis seeds, the fresher the seeds, the better the rate of germination... I think I would most likely start them right away and overwinter them indoors.

I don't really have the space for them indoors yet... No green house yet and burocracy is just making things worse. I don't even know if we can start finishing up the house this year. There are always these nobodies, little worms, who try to impose their believes and will on you, because they feel that if they cannot build and own multimillion dollar worth of houses, they have the opportunity to make the life of people with money living hell. I mean stretching giving building permit for a simple second story for more than a year? Isn't it in the Constitution that people shouldn't be subject of unusual punishment? It is punishment!

Maybe it's time to hire an attorney! Put them all in their place, legally! :-)

If I hire an attorney, the litigation can go on for two years. By that time we should build our other house and will have sold this one... We need the building permit and not litigation...

In the Hungarian Amaryllis Forum, someone just posted this picture. Isn't it wonderful?

Jorge Simão's South Brazilian Garden

{{gwi:422168}}

Oh my! How lovely! That's quite a scenic picture...

Awesomely beautiful!!!

Are those Papilios newly planted (forced)? If not,where are the leaves? Cut? I would be thinking Southern Brazil should be warm enough for the Papilios to be continously growing. Right?

I just don't know anything about it. I just thought I should repost this picture here. I knew you would like it.

It's a wonderful picture... I can almost imagine stepping into the picture and walking down the path... and there is a misty quality in the background... like it just rained, or is misting lightly... I'm glad you posted it here!

It looks like a painting. I wish I knew where it was.

It does look like a painting... it would make a really nice painting! I can just imagine it done in oils, with that same ethereal misty quality to it, framed in a heavy, dark wooden carved frame. That would be really nice...

I love the set up. I wouldn't mind living in a house that looked like that sorrounded by all those trees and that well kept lawn that just ripples around quietly. I can just imagine running out there and play with the dogs. Then on the upper side, there is the amaryllis flower bed with lines of amaryllis blooming at the same time with different forms and colors...
Of course, he is lucky. He is in Brazil. He can have the Papillios planted out there for him left out all year round.

He can grow a lot of things year round outside that we can't... I don't know what it is, but that's one of the most beautiful garden scenes I've seen online... it looks peaceful and at the same time, kind of mysterious.

"A picture paints a thousand words..."