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Early Grex hints

18 years ago

My small Ae Beeriana grex has one plant that is many times bigger than the others. Is this a hint that it probably has a different pollen parent than the others?

Comments (11)

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Not necessarily, but it could be. Where did you get the seed and was it hand-pollinated or just selfed on its own?

    Sometimes one seedling is just more vigorous than the others, and sometimes it can have to do with how much space they have to grow. Other times it could mean a hybrid or even a completely different seed that got mixed in there.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I got the seeds from bromeliaddict. I'm not sure how the pollen got there. They all had plenty of space. I only have 7 plants. They do all look similar, so I don't suspect a seed from something completely different.

    I have seen faster growing plants. My Billbergia Venezuelana plants are quite big after only 6 weeks.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I'm pretty sure that it selfed. I didn't bother trying to cross it with anything else. I couldn't imagine it as daddy to anything that I had in bloom at the time, and I knew from prior experience that it would self seed. That's not to say that it's impossible that the nature around here (like one of Stephania's ants) intervened! Lisa's observation about freaky vigorous growers is valid, too. It happens from time to time.
    Paul

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    2 weeks ago I carefully went through a dried up Ae Ruben flower spike and found 2 seeds. Obviously, it's not a selfer. Anyway, those 2 seeds sprouted in few days and I may let them live just to see what happens. My guess, since it flowered back in June, is that it's probably crossed with Blanchettiana, Little Harv or a neo. I have pictures of those in bloom at that time. The neo was the closest.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    The Neo may have been the closest physically, but Ae. blanchetiana is the most closely related, so I'd put my money on that one.

    Little Harv has been variously described as a giant cv. of Ae. chantinii, a cross of chantinii with a Pitcairnea (botanically impossible), or chantinii crossed with rubens. I think that last one is just speculation as to what would appear to be the most likely parent, but even if it is, the cross is sterile. It was reportedly pollinated with a Pit, and I seem to recall something said here about incompatible pollen sometimes causing the mother to self and even produce polyploid offspring. John, have I got that right? If so, that seems like it could be the case here.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Polyploid! Ah you made me research that one.

    "Polyploidy is important for plant breeding in two respects. First of all, polyploids tend to be more robust than the diploid progenitors. As noted in the Wikipedia entry on polyploidy, many important crops were (unintentionally) bred to be polyploid: apple, banana, durum, maize, cotton, potato, tobacco, strawberry, sugar cane, etc. Compare wild strawberries to domesticated varieties, and you'll understand what's meant by more robust! Colchicine, by helping to induce polyploidy, can help create new ornamental or food varieties of plants. A second use of colchicine in plant breeding work is to overcome hybrid sterility, as is done with triticale."

    So, maybe, my bigger seedling is a polyploid. Do you high level breeders play with colchicine? Sounds like an option.

    "Botanical use

    Since chromosome segregation is driven by microtubules, colchicine is also used for inducing polyploidy in plant cells during cellular division by inhibiting chromosome segregation during meiosis; half the resulting gametes therefore contain no chromosomes, while the other half contain double the usual number of chromosomes (i.e., diploid instead of haploid as gametes usually are), and lead to embryos with double the usual number of chromosomes (i.e. tetraploid instead of diploid). While this would be fatal in animal cells, in plant cells it is not only usually well tolerated, but in fact frequently results in plants which are larger, hardier, faster growing, and in general more desirable than the normally diploid parents; for this reason, this type of genetic manipulation is frequently used in breeding plants commercially. In addition, when such a tetraploid plant is crossed with a diploid plant, the triploid offspring will be sterile, which may be commercially useful in itself by requiring growers to buy seed from the supplier, but also can often be induced to create a "seedless" fruit if pollinated (usually the triploid will also not produce pollen, therefore a diploid parent is needed to provide the pollen). This is the method used to create seedless watermelons, for instance. On the other hand, colchicine's ability to induce polyploidy can be exploited to render infertile hybrids fertile, as is done when breeding triticale from wheat and rye. Wheat is typically tetraploid and rye diploid, with the triploid hybrid infertile. Treatment with colchicine of triploid triticale gives fertile hexaploid triticale.

    When used to induce polyploidy in plants, colchicine is usually applied to the plant as a cream. It has to be applied to a growth point of the plant, such as an apical tip, shoot or sucker. Seeds can be presoaked in a colchicine solution before planting. As colchicine is so dangerous, it is worth noting that doubling of chromosome numbers can occur spontaneously in nature, and not infrequently. The best place to look is in regenerating tissue. One way to induce it is to chop off the tops of plants and carefully examine the lateral shoots and suckers to see if any look different."

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    You don't want to play too much with colchicine! :o)

    Without getting too nerdy, colchicine basically stops cells from being able to divide. I believe it was used in the past, or was considered for, chemotherapy treatment. Needless to say it's not something you want to spill on yourself. I've used it in the lab a couple times.

    I'm assuming it's only the big guys in the ag industry with devoted laboratories working with this.

    Very interesting, thanks!

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I wouldn't touch colchicine with a ten foot pole! As Mike says, it's an extremely dangerous substance to work with, and only suitable for use in a lab with protective gear. It might make some killer broms, but I don't want to die in the process. I think I'll just keep diddling around with the old fashioned method, thankyouverymuch.

    I suppose your super seedling could be polyploid, Winterlager, but I wouldn't automatically jump to that conclusion. I think you're just going to have to let it grow out and see what it does.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    OK, so are we all going to start "chopping off the tops" of our bromes to encourage doubling of chromosomes? I don't think I want to do that unless there is a high enough probability of succeess.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    OK, I finally got the pic done of my little, 90 day old grex with the one dominator plant.

    {{gwi:448076}}

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Here are my mystery Ruben offspring. The one is just real weird while the other is more normal. These are 3 weeks old, I think.

    {{gwi:448078}}

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