I plant most of my bulbs with the shoulders exposed...and some that arrive in so-so shape sit mostly (~2/3) on top of the soil. The outer layer is going to dry and be protective, so for stability, buring just a bit of the bulb in the pot works well. Keeps excess water from sitting around the neck!

Of course, in the flowerbed, they start out high and seem to work their way down, but I don't put anything out in the yard that is too special. So far they are doing well, but I don't want to risk it.

WHAT ....FRANK???? You haven't planted your super basketball-size bulb yet?! What's keeping ya??

:-)

Frank,

I most always err on the side of planting too high especially when a new bulb had a minimum of roots. I too purchased several of these monster bulbs this year and I literally just sit them on the soil covering the basal plate and just a half inch or so of the bulb. To me it is important that a new bulb not stay too wet at the soil line and sometimes later if I feel it has rooted and there is no sign of any rot, I might add another inch of soil on top if I've left enough room in the pot which I usually do. Of course if you only bottom water, then there is less chance of the surface soil retaining moisture to the point where it rots the bulb, but I would never bury a bulb with only it's neck exposed. (I'm envisioning poor Long John Silver buried up to his neck in the sand, screeming his head off as the tide comes in ;-)) Of course when I plant outside in the ground for the summer, I totally cover the bulb, and with seedlings they tend to pull themselves down in the soil..but when I re-pot golf ball size seedling, they too sit on top of the soil.

We all have our methods and what works for us we continue to do, but I'd pull your Naranja up a few inches. As for stability, these monster bulbs are so heavy but, if they should get top heavy, I just use several small rocks and wedge them in to keep the bulb form toppling over, rocks about the size of a large egg will do the trick..

I hope you've got yourself a good digital camera so you can share pictures, We'd all love to see your monster Naranja sitting in her pot and her subsequent blooms...Currently, most of us don't have much in bloom, but just you wait..and we look forward to your sharing your successes and failures along with the rest of us..

Happy, Thanksgiving,

Donna

My little mini peach blossom opened its first bloom this morning. Looks a little pale, but it's been stressed and I know sometimes first blooms aren't the best. Anyway, it was a nice gift...perfect timing! GO PB!!
:-)
K

Kristi/Donna....

Thanks for the "instant" information regarding potting depth for the Hipp. bulb.

I potted the 'NARANJA' bulb a few weeks ago into what I thought was a mix that would drain very quickly, but I added too much top soil and suffered from a terrible Fungus Gnat invasion because the mix held too much water.

I then repotted the bulb into mix containing only small bark chunks, Turface MVP, and aquarium grit/pebbles, but I buried the bulb up to where the bulb meets the neck, and now I think/suspect it's too deep into the new mix. I was reluctant to pot the bulb higher because it initially had only a few roots, and I was afraid it would fall over. I did not think to prop it up as suggested. However, when I unpotted the bulb out of mix #1, and into mix #2, I noticed new roots shooting out of the basal plate area.

After posting this message I'm going to lift the bulb, and only leave the last third buried under the mix.

Will a papery-husk that looks like onion skins start forming on the bulb?

Thanks for the help. I knew I'd get some quick answers.

Have a Happy!!

Frank

Frank,

After you've moved it just relax and enjoy the blooms, I think you're a bit too worried and a bit paranoid. While it's important to meet the many requirements I think you're not having enough faith in yourself! You'll do fine and so will your bulb.

Donna is right, WE WANT TO SEE PICTURES, you got to show off all of your hard work!!!!! Can't wait till it blooms for you!

Josh

Hi, Frank!

I pot mine with about 1/3 to a 1/2 of the bulb above the medium surface. This way, it's easier for me to keep any debris removed and cleaned up, and to see what's actually happening to the bulb, itself.

Given a large enough pot... which is easy with the medium we use... most bulbs will settle at a level that's comfortable for them... regardless of where you originally plant it. I've had a few bulbs kind of "dig" or "pull" themselves in a little deeper.

In a case where the bulb doesn't seem to grow a decent enough root system before sending up tall scapes, I stake them so there's no possibility of them tipping over and falling out of the pot.

Hope this helps... happy growing! :-)

The bulb is sitting up higher and proudly showing off the shallot-size offset growing on one side.

Josh....
Sittin' back and just hangin' out ... anticipating just what size feed-bag to strap on for tomorrow,s gorge-fest .... excuse me, "dinner".

I just noticed a third flowering stalk peeking out from the center of the bulb. I thought it might be the start of some leaves emerging, but it's a flower stalk. So now, that's a total of three stalks, roughly two weeks apart, that will, in the coming weeks, have flowers.

This jumbo bulb seems to be shrinking slightly, and doesn't seem to be as fat and plump as it did when I first planted it. I guess this is normal, and will plump back up as new leaves add food reservs to the bulb...Correct?

Hey, loved hearing from you guys.

My best regards....Frank

Frank,

You will be amazed at how much they can shrink but as soon as they throw out a massive amount of roots and get a good drink they fatten right back up!!!!!! I've had bulbs the size of baseballs shrink to the size of golf balls and after they bloom and relax they fatten up almost immediately.

I can't wait to see your amazing blooms, three stalks with four flowers each, WOWZA! That will be quite the show! My 'Sweet Lillian' last year put out four scapes with some having 5 or more flowers, it's quite a small bulb too, it was a sight!

You have a wonderful Thanksgiving, it isn't one of my favorite holidays (I'm a summer kind of guy)!

Josh

Josh, ...et.al.

Thanks for the information, and kind thoughts.

Glad to learn that my extra-large bulb will gain back what it has already lost in both girth and turgidity. Talk about shrinkage!

I guess good genetics/breeding have set the stage for a spectacular flower display. The first stalk is now 14" high, the second, 7"...and the third, is just starting to peek out of the neck. Hoping for a succession of blooms for an extended show.

Your "Sweet Lillian" sounds like a real beauty.

Happy growth-cycle to all.

Frank

Frank, especially with the sharp draining medium we use, you'll want to check for needed moisture often, just to ensure you're giving your bulbs enough. Drying out in a shorter amount of time is great for healthy roots, but it does require us to keep a closer eye on moisture. But you know this, already, so it's more of a reminder than anything. :-)

As soon as those flower scapes begin to fade, I would begin feeding your bulbs every time you water with a diluted solution of good liquid fertilizer, containing micro-nutrients, if at all possible. If you maintain proper moisture, nutrition, decent light, the energy those bulbs are expending to bloom, and the size they are losing, will return in no time!

By the by, Sweet Lilian is absolutely gorgeous! It's one of my very favorite varieties! I liked it so much that I bought two! :-)

Frank,

Are you going be able to resist the urge to pollinate a few flowers when your Naranja blooms? The reason I ask is that you might want to line up some pollen "just in case" as you really don't want to waste your time selfing a plain ole orange..you'll just end up with hundreds of plain ole orange seedlings! But of course you know that, I made that mistake on my first time with Orange Sovereign about 4 years ago..ended up with more than 100 seedlings that all ended up with stagonospora curtisii..Anyway, I'm sure some of us have fresh pollen from proven healthy plants that we could send you so you will be armed and ready. I have fresh Exotic Star from a 3 year old bulb that just bloomed last month..

Think it over and if you put out a call for various varieties of pollens I'm sure you'll have several to choose from..most of us have a few that have or will have bloomed by the time your Naranja is ready..Food for thought..

Donna

That's a great idea, Donna... definitely something to consider. :-)

Greetings and Salutations....Thanksgiving is here!! Hope everybody has a wonderful holiday.

Jodi/Kristi/Josh/Donna...et.al.

Bulb and Clivia now repose in the new gritty medium, just the bottom third or bulb is planted, so it's sitting high and mighty...bamboo skewers are in place for the moisture check....no stinkin' Fungus Gnats buzzin' around my schnoz, new Orchids arrived by express mail last evening--JODI !!!-- and I'm searching for a local source for Dyna-Gro Foliage Pro nutrient solution so that I can start feeding my "chlorophytic children". Ahhhhhh.....life is good again!

Hey, thanks for the growing tips, and the schedules for feeding routines, etc. Now I just have to keep the bulb/Clivia happy and healthy. No small task, but I'm in it for the challenge.

Thanks again.

Frank

Donna, and others....

I have not considered crossing this plant, but it's an interesting concept.

I know next to nothing about how these Dutch-bulb type Hipps. are created, but I would imagine that they must share some pretty complex genetics, and lineage, and the resulting progeny might be interesting. Can these Dutch-Hipps. be crossed back onto a species, to make smaller plants and flowers? I haven't a clue.

Food for thought.

Frank, from Da-Bronx

Frank,

That's the fert. I used and I love it! Dyna-Gro to me has some of the best fertilizers considering they're low on Urea and Ammoniacal nitrogen (which isn't good for bulbs) and most are from Nitrates (which feed the bulb immediately).

Ammoniacal and Urea nitrogen promote the bulb rotting diseases to grow in the soil, it feeds them and without proper mechanisms in the soil they cannot be broken down for the plant anyway (at least not right away).

Some of Dyna-Gro fert. does use more Ammoniacal nitrogen than I like but the one I'm using has very low amounts.

Frank, I don't know that much about breeding plants, from a genetic standpoint... now, if these were dogs, it would be a whole different story... but I believe there's more to plant breeding than animal breeding... ploidy is involved, for one thing. Regardless, pollinating Hippeastrums is easy, fun, and the possibilities are almost endless!

I've done a little pollinating, myself... crosses, selfings... and I've gotten some nice seed pods filled with viable seed. I've grown some of the offspring, traded seeds, sent them to friends... but I really haven't had the time to dedicate wholly to a serious breeding program. I hope to do so one of these days.

Hans would be the one to ask about particular crossings and that sort of thing, and I know there are others who frequent the forum that are more knowledgeable than I about which crosses can be made, and which won't work.

I've attached an interesting article from the International Bulb Society on modern breeding of Hippeastrum. It's worth a read, for sure.

I hope everyone is having a lovely Thanksgiving! We've got a nice ham in the oven right now, and I've got large pans of green bean casserole and candied yams ready to go in... it should be a nice dinner! I only wish we'd been able to travel north to spend the day with our kids and grandkids... but we'll see them at Christmas.

Here is a link that might be useful: TRENDS IN MODERN HIPPEASTRUM HYBRIDIZING

Josh.....

Thank-you for posting that information! I'm searching for this Fert. because I read great things about it on the Garden Forums.

I'm going to start the search in all the hydroponic supply stores in my area. I hope I can find this product.

Frank

Frank,

You can order it online, if you google "Dyna-Gro Liquid Grow" you can find it many places.

I noticed a substantial difference in my bulbs after using this fert., I hope you give it a chance!

Josh

jodik:
Thanks for the article. That ham dinner sounds delish!!

Josh:
The Dyna-Gro fert. formulation that I was going to search out locally is called: D-G..."FOLIAGE-PRO 9-3-6". You mentioned another product called "LIQUID-GROW". Do you think that both of these products would "work" with Hipps. Clivias, and containerized Fig trees. Are they essentially the same type of product? Follow label directions, or should I dilute the dose for indoor growing conditions. ( I'm always reluctant to feed plants throughout the dull, short days of Winter, ....I rather not see weak growth).

Happy Holiday!

Frank

It was, Frank... I still feel stuffed, and it's the next morning! I hope you had a nice Thanksgiving dinner, yourself! I ended up overdoing it on pumpkin pie... but what the hey, we only go around once! :-)

Thanks everybody for your pleasant Thanksgiving wishes. Had a great dinner and the family broke bread together. Too much food....

My Dyna-Gro fertilizer question is still open for grabs, but that's OK. We all need to rest our brains after a big holiday feast. No hurry...it can wait. I can't think about plants right now.

Best regards, Frank

Frank, quite honestly, I think the best answers will come from some of Al's writings. He should have a thread floating around the Container Gardening Forum about fertilizing, and I know he recommends Foliage Pro, which has all the essential nutrients and micro-nutrients plants need.

I remember he once wrote a piece about the specialized fertilizers and bloom boosters, revealing that even the manufacturers know many of the hyped products are just gimmicks. I think the quote was something like... and I'm paraphrasing, here... "it's easier to give the public what they think they need than it is to reeducate them."

Personally, I water with a diluted solution of fertilizer all year round... the reason being, the more inorganic mediums we use don't contain or hold onto much nutrition. Therefore, I offer a buffet-like environment to my plants, ensuring a constant supply of food in a low dose, and they take what they need. Because I'm flushing them every time through thorough watering, and watering more often than I would be if I used a peat based medium, what's in the pot is constantly exchanging... out with the old, in with the new.

Over winter, I water with the weakened fertilizer water 3 out of 4 times... on the 4th watering, I flush with clear water. I mix it at about 1/4 strength.

I keep resting bulbs a little drier than ones in full growth mode, too. But when I see new growth, I go back to the regular "schedule"... and I put schedule in quotes because the only schedule is giving my plants what they need, when they need it. There is no actual schedule, like watering once a week whether they need it or not, or something... that's how my Mom used to water her houseplants, and she killed more plants than anyone I know!

I don't know if this helps you, Frank... but I would absolutely go take a peek at what Al recommends.

Thanks for the information about the fertilizers that I mentioned.

Yes, I do recall Al writing about the merits of these fertilizers, and also extensive articles regarding growing plants in containers. I frequently post information on the FIG FORUM and it was there that I "met" AL, and many other knowledgeable growers. Anyway, I'll re-read his postings, and brush-up on the information.

Best regards, and thanks.

Frank

Frank,

'Foliage Pro' offers 6.1% of Nitrogen from Nitrates and only 2.9% of Ammoniacal which is great, I think it would be a great round about Fertilizer for you to use for everything. I have learned about the importance of the quality of Nitrogen via Len Doran and a Biochemist friend of mine, it really does make a difference.

I think it's also really important to fertilize with each watering with 1/4 tsp. per gallon to make sure you have adequate nutrition for the plants at a steady amount. I wouldn't water with fertilizer while the plants are dormant, (i.e, no leaves) as this can cause severe burning on Hippeastrum roots.

There are few experts on the Amaryllidaceae family but they do exist and are wonderfully helpful people, while some have passed they've left a wonderful information trail. If you get the opportunity research Len Doran; he had some wonderful insights about fertilization for bulbs.

Josh

I'm sorry I couldn't be more specific, Frank... the science involved in fertilizers is one of my weakest points in gardening knowledge. I can't ever remember the the right NPK numbers, or what exact minerals/chemicals comprise micro-nutrients, and all that good stuff... I rely heavily on reading and re-reading Al's writings. When I run across something important I want to remember, I copy and paste it to a text file on my desktop called "Al's Articles". :-)

Much of what I've read in books or on the net is just a little too scientifically involved for me to break down and remember... so I've become a lifetime student of Al, I guess you could say. I like the way he puts everything in terms that the layperson can understand easily and apply to their own growing situation.

I'm not entirely sure bulbs require something different than any other type of plant when it comes to basic nutrition... but from what I continue to hear and read, Foliage Pro is highly recommended by a large number of consummate growers. That tells me the product works... or less people would sing its praises.

Before I can order any Foliage Pro, myself, I have to work through the brand I have now... I just can't afford to waste it. But Foliage Pro is on my list for the next fertilizer purchase. In the meantime, I mix just like Josh does... about 1/4 recommended strength... and I add a source of micro-nutrients.

This new info helps very much. Again, ...Al, you need to write a book!

I'm trying to use the same products for the few plants that I grow, and eliminate all the redundant items that clutter my life, i.e. .... growing mixes, fertilizers, etc.

These Dyna-Gro fert's. sound like what I need, so that's what I'm going to use.

Thank-you again for helping me make up my mind.

Frank

No problem, Frank... in fact, if I'm not mistaken, I believe Al has stated that Foliage Pro is what he uses for all of his plants... and I've heard others say the same thing... so, there ya go.

I don't think it should be necessary to have a cabinet filled with separate products for different plants, or to have to mix all kinds of things together to get a decent meal for your plants... as long as the fertilizer used is nutritionally complete, covering the needs of a plant, you should be good to go... and Foliage Pro is complete.

It looks like this thread got a little sidetracked with fertilizers and whatnot, but I want to take it back to the initial question.

I recently had to perform surgery on a few bulbs that I got with some rotting areas, so after cutting, applying cinnamon, drying, and replanting with only the basal plate in the soil, I think the bulbs will be okay. I pot all mine in the 5-1-1 mix for cost effectiveness, but the medium is very loose until the bulbs root thoroughly. My only concern is with stability as the scapes and leaves grow heavier and taller.

Has anyone ever tried planting high in such a medium and putting a top-dressing of just crushed granite up to the neck to stabilize? I would think that it would keep the area around the bulb bone dry, keep the container well weighted down, and provide good stability for the bulb as it establishes new roots.

Any other ideas?

I use stakes to stabilize. I either bend my own "peony rings" to hold the leaves and scapes upright using stiff, coat hanger type wire... or I use bamboo, or those green wooden stakes you can get just about anywhere garden items are sold.

Most of my stakes are made from welding rod my husband bent into rings on top for me. They seem to do the job nicely.

FromDirt,

I think your idea of top-dressing with crushed granite is a good one..I usually just use small rounded stones that jam from the side of the pot to the bulb. In these cases where you need to support a bulb with no roots as it gets top heavy a couple of these stones do the job for me. Easy to remove once the scape has been cut off and/or roots grow and the plant is no longer in need of help. Your granite chips would probably look neater and do the job also, and you could always leave them there and discourage the fungus gnats..

Jodi's idea is good too, but for me having more things sticking up in the air makes it easier for me to knock over a pot when watering, or inspecting a pot near it. I'm rather clumsy! ;-)

Donna

And by the way, anytime you want to start a new thread, even if the subject in being discussed in a previous thread that has digressed and gotten so long you're afraid people will miss your question, do it!!