Hehe...Cathy...these little guys are really putting you through your paces....

I can sympathize..Everytime I go out and get some cuttings for the Monarchs I raising..I bring in several new eggs on the cuttings!

I guess we can't save the WHOLE butterfly world..but I applaud your efforts.

Maryann

Cathy,

I had to make that decision with the BSTs this summer. They are everywhere, and I have just about run out of plants to feed them. I am to the point that the next step would be to go to the grocery store for food. I know that is a NO-NO on this forum, but it's getting to that.

Susan is having trouble with finding PV for her PVSs.

We can only do so much. I am glad that you have let yourself off the hook. You've done a great job!

OKSandy

Maryann,

Yeah, I think the Monarchs have about driven me to drinking. Ha! I know what you mean about bringing in leaves to feed the cats and then you find eggs on them. I find eggs even when I'm not trying to find eggs.

Thanks for your words of support. I kept thinking that I was letting the butterflies down and people on here down who also raise them, but I have to give myself some slack. I've been awfully edgey and depressed lately, and I'd say that my constant Monarch attending is the reason for that.

I really thought that by planting all this milkweed that I would have a very ample supply for the Monarchs, but as it turns out, the females just lay even more eggs, and I still don't think I'll have enough now. I was actually better off last year with only 28 plants than I am now with all of these additional plants. At least then I could feed all of the cats that I had here. I'm not going to continue to add more and more milkweed every year. I don't think that there would be an end to it. I have exactly 155 plants outside in the ground, 21 in big pots in the cage, 4 in big pots outside the cage, some on the back porch in one-gallon pots and probably about 100 in cups, but like I said, those have already been chewed down and are hopefully going to grow new leaves, but it's not like it's going to happen overnight.

I see some cats outside right now on some plants, but they're going to stay out there. I'll finish raising the ones I have here yet in this small plastic storage container and round up any strays on the back porch and put those in containers and feed them (I'm sure there's no more than 4 or 5). I'll also of course release the butterflies as they eclose that we have in containers (pupas) in the living room. All of those should be gone within the next week. I also have half a dozen cats in individual containers yet that I'll continue to feed. So you see I do still have some that I'm raising. It's just a load off my mind that I'm not bringing in any new eggs or cats. I won't go back to raising any more this summer until I think I'll have enough to feed them or I might just bring a couple in and raise them, but that won't be for a few weeks, until after I get my other things done around here. I don't know how long it takes plants to rebound after they've been chewed down to practically nothing but the stem. Oh, to have an endless supply of milkweed and time! I'm pretty sure almost all of the cats in the big cage will pupate today or tomorrow. There are already at least 20 pupas in there now and lots of cats were up at the top getting ready to pupate. It's very likely that almost all of the cats in the cage will have pupated before the food runs out. Even if it would come up a little short on food, I still have those other big ones (4 swamp milkweed) sitting outside of the cage (merely because they wouldn't all fit inside of it) and I could sit those in it for any remaining cats that might still be eating. Being that the very youngest ones were 3 days old when we put all of them in the cage, I'd say there should be very few left still eating on Monday (tomorrow).

I suppose that the Monarch females lay so many eggs because under natural conditions (me not bringing in their eggs), they would lose a lot to predators, so that's nature's way of making up for all of the goners. People have upset the balance of nature, though, with their development and destroying the Monarch's habitat. I guess that's why I felt compelled to save every single egg that I could. That's why it was hard for me to come to this decision.

Sandy,
Thanks so much for saying that. You and MaryAnn have made me feel better about my decision. You know how you just want to save something so much and feel like you have to make up for the all the wrong things that have been done over time but yet you are only you and not ten people? That's how I feel.

Wow, it sounds like you have an overabundance of BST's. I think I know how you feel, except with the different species. I've never had BST cats, so I don't know how much they eat. I'm not even actually sure how long they stay a caterpillar.

I feel for you and Susan and anyone else who is running out of food for their cats. It's frustrating and a person just feels kind of helpless. You think you have enough and then along come the butterflies with different ideas and dump and truckload of eggs on you.

You're right that we can only do so much. I think you've done a great job too and even if some have to starve, I'm sure that happens all of the time out there in places that we aren't aware of. I think that we save a lot that would have otherwise not made it without our help. I wish you the best of luck with the BST's.

Cathy

If you think naturally, the reason the butterflies lay so many eggs is that most of them don't survive. So you shouldn't feel bad about not 'saving' every one. Some have to be food for predators. It's not 'nice' but nature rarely is.

It's good that you are helping the number of butterflies you are helping. Just by having milkweed in your yard you are helping.

So relax, and enjoy it!

Cathy, you can simplify raising caterpillars by NOT hunting for and bringing in eggs. If a cat is going to die naturally, unrelated to anything anybody has or hasn't done, it'll nearly always do so when it's a hatchling or very early instar, so I prefer for that to happen outside, so I won't get depressed about it. Also, it's nearly impossible to keep leaves fresh long enough for a cat to hatch on one, and them eat most of the leaf - when cats are older, they eat leaves quickly, but hatchlings don't. Even in a water pick, depending on the type leaf, they don't last that long. Also, hatchlings are so tiny they can crawl out of the tiniest cage mesh.
I'm raising some lunas now, hopefully I'll be raising polyphemus and other big moths soon, and these are all eggs I've adopted. I have a big reptarium/butterfly cage that I use for these eggs, with the host plant leaves stuck in a leftovers container filled with water that I put in the center of the bottom of the cage. I've put the eggs on a paper towel in another little, vented plastic container, and when the cats hatch, I put host plant leaves in the egg container to get them to crawl on them, then move them to the big cage and stick them in the leftovers container.
This is all a LOT of trouble and aggravating, even though I've had a lot of experience raising cats. I wouldn't do it except that the big moth situation still hasn't returned to normal 2 years after Katrina.
I'd recommend that you NOT bring in eggs - other people say that various predators get them, but that's not true in my case. And if you can't enjoy it, then just leave them all outside!
MissSherry

I agree with Buford - monarchs lay tons of eggs because only a few of them actually make it to the adult stage. If you can help a few more by "intervening", that is great - if you can't, then don't.

And you shouldn't beat yourself up over it! If you're not enjoying it anymore, then it's time to take a break. It's a HUGE commitment, and if you know you can't be there to care for all of them all of the time, it is better to let nature run it's course. Nature always seems to prevail anyway. :) I constantly stop myself from bringing in more eggs - I have learned my limits, even though I would LOVE to raise bazillions of butterflies!

(finding the egg on the leaf I brought in to feed cats already in my house, though, after checking it to make sure there was no egg.... ARGH! been there!! DOH!!!)

MissSherry - here in Evanston I've noticed great predation with eggs and early instars, especially mid-late season. I never see 4-5th monarch instars, a friend on the other side of town has noticed the same. I attribute that to a healthy garden being a refuge for every insect in the neighborhood - beneficial or not; they've found our 1/4 acre and apparently love it! I'm sure things are much different in a more rural/country setting.

However, in downtown Chicago, along busy crowed State Street, there were tons of late instars in the sidewalk planters/gardens, happily munching away on A. curassavica. Fewer predators I guess? Perhaps them monarchs ain't so dumb after all! ;)

Sandy

I can't even imagine bring in all the eggs I've seen. I've stuck strictly to bringing in the baby cats once they've hatched. Even that, being only 11, has been a chore for me. I don't know how you all do it! I'm heartbroken over losing only 2 of the cats; I injured a tiny one, so I squished it immediately. The second; I have no clue. Did I throw it out? Was it eaten? I've seen LOTS of eggs the last week, but haven't seen alot of cats. I did find one baby today, and I'm giving it to a friend at work, since she's been busting my chops about rearing one. Do I trust her? Beats me, but if she wants to learn how to rear them, she'll have to dive in. I'll only give her one to start. Plus, I'm going on vacation in 2 weeks, for a week, and the last thing I want to do is bring them on vacation with me! Bad enough I'll probably end up bringing 8-9 chrysalids with me!

Sandy, I don't wait until they're late instar cats, just until they're big enough that they can't crawl through the mesh on my cages. These luna cats that I've raised from eggs haven't done that, because I've kept them in the middle of a big cage on their own little "island" of host plant leaves in a leftovers container. I DO see late instar cats sometimes, but that's not too common, except for pipevine swallowtail cats, which are apparently distasteful to all the predators except those hideous, BIG predatory stinkbugs that showed up in my garden this year for the first time. There are many predators that ignore hatchlings and very early instar cats, but eat the bigger ones. So, I'm increasing the numbers of butterflies hugely, since I keep the older cats from being preyed on, also the chrysalids, who are a favorite of ants. The only eggs I've ever seen being carried away are sulphur eggs - by ants - and the only hatchling/early instar cats I ever see preyed on are giant swallowtails, and it's always by a smaller type of predatory stinkbug that's common here. That's why I bring them in early, when they're hatchlings or very early instars, also, they're very lethargic and don't move enough to escape through the mesh! :)
MissSherry

Deep breath. That's right. I learned that you can only do what you are able to do and keep your sanity. No sense going nutso over butterflies! It is so hard to say that and leave them alone, I know (trust me!) but I've learned the same thing over the years...sometimes you just have to leave 'em alone. :)

Relax...breathe! Get that glass or even bottle of wine and enjoy the ones that are fluttering about. Go crazy again when you're ready. ;P

Oh Catterwallin, I feel your pain. With that many Monarch Cats to raise, you must be exhausted. I did the same thing my first year. Ran out of food too. Those little cats eat like big CATS. Anyway, I have a bit of advice if you can use it. . . .I use plastic see-thru tubs, the kind that Cockateil food comes in. I cover the top with a paper coffee filter and use a rubberband to hold it in place. NOTHING can crawl thru the coffee filter and they are cheap enough to change everytime you want to. The cats crawl up onto the filter to make their crystalis and then I take the filter and pin it into my net butterfly house and wait for them to emerge. You can wait until several or all of your cats are done to put it into the net. The sides of the net will be covered with pinned up coffee filters sometimes. It makes it easier for me to handle the amount of CATS I get (sometimes).

Good luck and don't upset yourself so much with such an overwhelming job. This summer I have found out that GST's are a lot easier to raise. Actually, BST's are not as much work as Monarchs but the work is all worth it. I love to release all my babies. Some have to stay in the wild.

Good luck and slow down and smell the flowers.

Leubafr- I have also used toilet paper (which works), and I imagine that paper towels would work too.
-Jmcat

I can definitely relate,but remember,the monarchs will stop reproducing in a month or so and we will be searching in vain for more eggs.The butterfly season is short and hectic in the northern states,and it seems there's never enough time to care for all the cats we've been blessed with.

Cathy,

I can tell that this is a tough decision for you, but when it's no longer fun-IT'S TIME TO STOP. You've done so much more than the vast majority already and the garden/milkweed you've provided is a gift that will keep on giving. If you're like me, you're probably stressed out by the virtual drought, and all the watering(we both rely on our well), and the plants dying because we can plant/water everything. Maybe a new year with ADEQUATE RAIN will make things easier for both of us.

Besides, if we're working too hard we don't take time to really enjoy the butterflies!

mike

Oh, yes, dear Cathy - time to say STOP THE MADNESS! I brought in a few more PVS eggs, but left the rest outside. They're just going to have to make it or not. I also quit bringing in the BST eggs, too. They are laying eggs on the tiniest stalk (no foliage) of fennel, so there will be no food for them.

This has been a record bounty year for butterflies here in Oklahoma. I don't think we EVER get this many. If we had, they would have just layed eggs on the small amount of A. clematitis that I have had in my yard for 4 years now. I have gotten out and pinched the A. clematitis and the tomentosa and they are growing new basal and side growth. But, it's nowhere near what I would need to feed all of the cats that will hatch (or not).

It is fun and enjoyable, raising butterflies. But when you get all frazzled just thinking about what the rest of the day will bring, it's time to reevaluate the purpose. The bugs and predators are abundant this year. Something needs to feed them, too, because they DO have their place in nature. Mother Nature knows best and we are actually intervening. If the population was threatened, I would feel differently, but I don't think it is, unless you have got Regal Fritillaries or some such declining butterfly population.

Butterflies have made it for millions of years - wow! That boggles even my mind! I think they'll make it a few more. Also, unless you're tagging the Monarchs for research purposes, I wouldn't worry about it so much. We do what we can with what we have. If I don't have my wits about me, I'm likely to not be of much help to the butterflies, my family, anyone or anything else.

You're a dear, Cathy, and we all love you here, but raising butterflies should be enjoyable and enlightening. If you're feeling discouraged about it, it's no longer either of those things.

Susan