Drip would be a great way to irrigate the plants you are growing. There are excellent nurseries right there in San Francisco that would be glad to help you design your system. Al

THE ISSUES WITH DRIP IRRIGATION

 a survey of landscape professionals and homeowners had "drip irrigation" as the highest maintenance of irrigation systems; it requires constant monitoring.

 most maintenance people are not familiar with drip system repair and maintenance nor even simple scheduling ��" there are too many different systems.

 and less familiar are home-owners.

 for most efficient use, systems require pressure regulation (usually pressure reduction); a bit of information rarely shared at purchase.

 often shoddy products. (There are quality products available but that's not what people who are looking at "drip" as a cheap system are looking for.)

 products are constantly being introduced, often disappearing after a few months; failed products, hence, become hard to replace or impossible to find or repair.

 small tubing often becomes clogged from hard water and although new designs include filters and self-flushing emitters, they are costly.

 the tubing/system is unsightly.

 and because it's unsightly, tubing is often covered by mulch or plant foliage, making it difficult to monitor the effectiveness of the system. Most gardeners, amateur and professional, often aren't aware of a clog in the system or other maintenance issue until the affected plants begin to show signs of stress.

 easy prey for wayward mowers and other garden tools.

 easy prey for kids and pets.

 easy prey for rodents.

 easy prey for vandalism.

 provides no cooling effect for plants during hot spells.

 does not wash off foliage as do sprinklers. Yes, it's a good thing to occasionally wash off your plants and it does not cause diseases nor "burn" the leaves.

 it's not easy to water areas with quantities of small plants, such as in newly-planted groundcovers and bedding flowers.

 because the system is black and above ground and because water remains in the main line, micro-irrigation often applies damaging hot water to young plants.

 the vast majority of our weeds in Mediterranean climates are cool-season weeds -- the kind that come up with winter rains. Even with a drip system, we still get cool-season weeds and lots of them.

 salts build up at perimeter of wetted areas; such minerals aggravate most root-rot organisms (especially Phytophthora).

 it’s often necessary to run it for a long time to provide “deep” watering and that, consequently, creates a long-term low-oxygen environment.

 does not push oxygen into the soil as do overhead systems.

 because the wetted area is much smaller when delivered by drip compared to sprinklers, control is more critical in application of water to avoid plant stress.

 a recent evaluation of landscape drip irrigation systems revealed an average uniformity of less than 20% (> 70% is acceptable efficiency).

 one peculiar disadvantage to drip systems: gardeners often replace plants that have died at the end of a drip system tube by placing a new plant in the exact same place as the existing tube end ��" regardless of the type, needs, or eventual size of the new plant.

THE WORST ISSUE (and most often overlooked):

 drip systems do not promote an extensive root system, one that is deep and wide and not shallow-rooted -- the very type of system that allows a plant to be truly drought-resistant in the long run.

Joe

Wow...thank you so much for that.I keep telling my husband that I'm not at all interested in drip irrigation and why it's not good, but you just gave me ALL of the reasons and I can just hand him the list....

tt:

You're right about "hand watering" (with a hose). For most people, it's the worst -- most ineffective -- way to water.

But I compare drip systems to other watering "systems". In the long run, you will do much better with a sub-surface system installed by a smart irrigation professional.

Pop-ups with bubbler/shrubbler heads is the ideal for gardens with decent soils and level ground. The newer low-angle spray/sprinkler heads are best for covering mid-size areas with a slow-soaking-over-a-large-area mode. For large areas, the most efficient water users are rotary heads.

Lots of choices and a good irrigation guy (not just a "handyman") can tell you what would work best for you and install it as well.

Drip systems are popular and ubiquitous not because they work so well (they don't), but rather because any idiot can install one.

I wrote about drip irrigation for Sunset magazine back in the mid-seventies when they were just coming into vogue because of our drought trend at the time. They were the latest in irrigation technology (out of Israel) and they made for great stories.

It was later that I realized that they were not designed for landscapes nor were they designed even for drought tolerant gardens. They were designed by an engineer to make use of water from a low-pressure reservoir.

Joe

My climate is almost polar opposite or yours [dry/inland/hot], but have had wonderful success with soaker hoses 'snaked' through the flower bed and covered with thick mulch. They are easy, CHEAP, and fool proof.

When I said drip, I was meaning subsurface pipes, underground burial system. He can install them, because I have seen where he installed it in another house. I had a soaker hose once and my dog ate it. If you are going on vacation would you put the soaker hose on a timer? I used to have a sprinkler system, but I don't use it anymore, and the valves have clogged. The sprinklers were wetting my rose leaves, and I could not stand it. It's not like I don't have a serious fungal problem with the roses anyway, because of San Francisco climate. Maybe I should have been more clear, but I thought drip system is the term one should use for underground water delivery system. It would not surface dripping.

Gardenguru1950. I agree with some of your concerns about low pressure system, however, not totally.

This is what I am doing:
1. I use pressure reducing regulators (30psi) for various area.
2. I use 0.5" (0.7"OD) low pressure hose, which is a joy to use as it can snake around plants and tight spots)
3. Over the years, I have reduce the use of emitters as they do get clogged over time. I use mostly:
4. for ground cover etc Spray jet on riser :
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These gadgets comes in 360, 180 or 90 deg, and with attached shutoff valve for winter months). They rise above the plants, so no way you can't see the spray.

5. For shrubs, trees, I use micro bubblers. By twisting the head, one can control throw rate (from zero to full) and distance

The 1/2"tubing can be covered by mulch, the sprays and bubblers are on risers. Clearly visible. In fact, you can use a combination of emitters, bubblers and misers to achieve some very interesting results.

I am now working on my third thousand foot roll of 1/2 inch drip tubing plus many rolls of 1/8 and 1/4 inch tubing. I have done four gardens to make them as automatic watering as possible. Every system will require monitoring, but those on city water have very little maintenance required. Here in Calistoga with water from wells containing lots of minerals, a lot more attention is required. Any emitter or mini sprinkler can become clogged, much more often with well water. San Fransisco water is the best you can get. When I lived there our biggest problem was getting rid of the suds from the soft water that came up our floor drains. As our garden here is spread out we have 5 separate timer/controllers. Any city lot can get along with one, and they are much improved over the last 20 years. I cannot imagine gardening that requires watering to be done by hand. Al

Al, in San Francisco Gardens are small by comparison to other areas, and we take less water due to our climate, but yes it is hideously time consuming. I used to try to use soaker hoses, but I could not focus my attention to remember to move them around the yard. So, if I forgot them it was a waste of water. An area could be flooded, because I did not have a timer system.

Soaker hoses 'buried' under thick layer of mulch are semi-permanent ... not moved from place to place as a sprinkler hose would be. Know what you mean about dog chewing ... I've been known to cut through a buried soaker. But they are so cheap.....

Re: forgetting to turn water off ... I have a kitchen timer with a very annoying buzzer/ring, which I use for many things ... among those, to remind me to change hose to different soaker or turn off.

My climate is quite different from yours, but the combo of soaker/thick mulch works well for all my permanent plantings. We are water-restricted, so these hoses are doubly useful. Some of these 'weeping' hoses have been in use for 3 or more years, with no noticable problems, and zero maintenance.

Wow this is always a fun topic, good thing people are open minded...
Both systems have advantages and drawbacks. Once you understand those (and which apply to your situation) you may find (for example) that you want to use drip for that narrow border or one which has lots of taller plants that would block spray patterns AND use spray for large open area's like lawns.

I have both - largely for the reasons above and more. Any automatic system can easily accommodate both types.

For drip systems I can recommend getting Netafim. I also use the HD available raindrip, but mainly only the flag drippers which can be opened and flushed if they clog (which they rarely do); the button pressure type seem to be prone to failing as either a clogged dripper, or a blowout where they spray water.

We have plenty of rats, gophers, skunks, raccoons etc. but in 25 years I have only once had a pipe chewed into.

Chad

My experience with drip irrigation is the polar opposite of Joe's/Gardenguru's rant about drip irrigation. I am a landscape designer, I install drip irrigation in gardens for my clients as well as in my own garden, and have no complaints about their reliability nor the results. If they were as problematic as Joe makes out, why would they continue to be installed in a majority of new landscapes?

I won't bother to debate Joe point by point, but they can also work well for native plant gardens, where they are more often used to get plants established, and then for the occasional/periodic supplemental irrigation, rather than weekly, and the timing can be adjusted to get water deep if required by multiple cycles, and there is no runoff, as opposed to spray irrigation.

I'd suggest you go in and talk with the folks at the Urban Farmer store there in San Francisco, out near the zoo. One of the acknowledged experts in the field of drip irrigation and design, and they can counter points that Joe brings up. I would suggest that you print out Joe's tirade and bring it with you into the store, should you decide to get the opposing viewpoint.

I would never advise a drip system for someone who doesn't want one, and prefers the visual cues of actually seeing the ground get wet. I know I have a client or two who still continues to hand water their newly installed garden because they can't quite believe the drip irrigation system is doing its job, (and since they are on a sandy/bay fill soil, it is doing no harm to double water).

I wouldn't suggest that one buy the cheaper drip irrigation systems as sold at the mass outlet home stores, but instead buy the better quality material from a drip irrigation specialist store, as most landscape designer and landscape contractors do. Most local drip irrigation stores here in the San Francisco Bay Area will also help design a system for your garden at no cost to you if you buy all your materials from them to install it.

I am not posting here to open a pointless debate about which irrigation system is better, but I do think Joe's post is simply wrong to uniformly say that drip irrigation is always the wrong choice. A beautiful garden that is growing well and uses less water than a spray irrigation system should be proof enough that they can work quite well, and are not necessarily difficult to maintain, if designed for easier maintenance as the first priority, rather than the lowest cost or fastest installation. They will always be a better design for the client's needs and problems on-site if they are professionally designed and installed, and the client is briefed on how to maintain it.

"rant", "tirade"? Hardly. I simply put down what I've been told by the experts (soil scientists, irrigation specialists and down-to-earth landscapers).

bahia and I have had this debate in the past. I'm sure I've never said they are ALWAYS the wrong choice. I think micro-irrigation has a place in seasonal vegetable gardens, for container gardens and for temporary use to get plants going on the periphery of a landscape or property.

I maintain that drip systems "continue to be installed in a majority of new landscapes" because they require much less planning and thinking than traditional irrigation systems.

I maintain that they're popular because they're initially less expensive than traditional irrigation systems.

I maintain that they are ubiquitous and aggressively-defended because this sub-industry has become a billion-dollar industry. There are way too many people making a living selling, planning, advising, installing.

I'd be surprised as heck if the Urban Farmer store did NOT counter my points.

I hope we will all continue to be "open-minded" (as one poster earlier said) in our "debates" and we find no need to use derogatory and inflammatory phraseology.

I find it interesting, too, that micro-irrigation manufacturers are always looking for ways to make their drip systems work more like traditional irrigation systems.

Joe

I want to have less soil top wetness, because of all the weed germination. I was thinking about the not drip actually, but I still call it drip, it just drips underground, not on the surface. But, I will still have to do fill in watering. Most of the problems can be over come by good maintenance, but it will still be expensive to install. That is why I wanted to think it over. There is a lot of digging involved to install the pipes.

If it was a short vacation, I could get by, but I would not want to leave the garden alone unwatered in the summer. We have no summer rain. And the sandy soil drains very fast. All advantages, but I have to check my budget for the project. Does anyone know how much it may cost? My garden size is 10 yards by 7 yards with some extras, or 360 feet by 252 feet. The deck takes up a lot of space, or it would have more planting area.

If you go to the Netafim site, they describe how the pipe with built-in emitters is designed to be buried as you describe. In addition to being self-flushing (the drippers clean themselves) the openings have a material which inhibits root growth into them. The advantage of this system is that you don't see it, ... also the disadvantage :)

I just wish it was not sized metric (17mm instead of 1/2") so I could use the locally available connectors...

Chad

I hadn't meant to be abusive of Joe's points, just a counterpoint. Just a note about Urban Farmer's services, they are a full service irrigation store, and sell all the materials to install a conventional spray irrigation system as well. I would like to counter one of Joe's points, about drip irrigation being cheaper to install. I don't find that to be the case, in the systems I design and install, there is more hand labor involved to get emitter line to individual plants, so I'd say that the different systems are probably about on par or even slightly more expensive for a drip irrigation when using higher quality/more reliable fittings and materials.

Also, as to the point about needing pressure regulators for drip systems, what is your point? The pressure regulator is not some expensive or elaborate device prone to failure, and even a conventional spray irrigation system will often require a pressure regulator at the valves if the house or street pressures are too high. Where drip irrigation excels is the benefits of using it on difficult to water steep slopes where spray irrigation would cause run-off at the higher application rates, and is not as good at giving deeper watering. You can also get away with using less valves with a larger area of coverage in a typical garden setting, because the water flows required are less volume and pressure.

As to maintenance and repairs, I often find that clients with dogs and conventional spray irrigation systems may have more need of regular inspections to repair broken irrigation heads, especially if they conflict with a large dog running along an open metal fence at the street. As well, pop-up spray irrigation heads are equally prone to damage from autos driving over them or lawn mower blades clipping them, and when broken and set to run overnight, the wasted water will be far more wasteful than it would be with a lower flow/lower pressure drip system.

I would not waste my time trying to convince someone who has their mind made up about their preferences in irrigation systems, but it is not as black and white as Joe would make it appear. Everyone should irrigate in a way that makes sense for their particular situation. I simply believe that drip irrigation in combination with micro-spray drip can create superb results while also using less water overall. Joe's contention that drip irrigation does not permit deep rooting of plants is only germane for those who don't run their systems long enough to wet the soil deeply. This is also very much a concern with spray systems as well, as most gardeners simply don't know how long it can take to deeply water a clay soil. Most spray systems will cause run-off in clay soils if watered for more than 10 to 15 minutes on a sloping site, and this won't wet the soil much beyond the first inch or two. Not to mention the water lost to wind/over throw spray, and evaporated water lost to the hot sun in combination with winds.

In any case, both spray and drip irrigation design have their pros and cons, and the majority of residential homeowners are more likely to be timing their irrigation by schedules rather than plant needs, nor do most adjust their watering schedules more than once or twice a year to reflect the weather and seasons. In specifying which type of system makes more sense for an individual homeowner/client, it helps to weigh all the factors that should influence such a decision.

While working as a landscape architect for a large firm doing subdivision homes for a developer, I had occasion to design a subsurface system using Netafim for lawns in this development. I can tell you that it drove the new home buyers crazy, as too many didn't trust that it was working properly, and would reset their individual home's irrigation controllers to vastly overwater the lawns, as they couldn't see it working. While it may make sense to use such a system for a commons area landscape that isn't subject to the whims of different homeowners, I wouldn't recommend it again for the average garden.

The one place I would always recommend a spray system over a drip system would be for a client who can't control their dog's digging and chewing of things in the garden. A drip system will be much more vulnerable to damage in such a garden. I've also found that the most common animal damage to drip irrigation systems in my experience has been with squirrels chewing off the hard plastic mister heads I use in gardens which may have subtropicals such as bromeliads mounted on fences or trees. I've learned that the misters should never be mounted on the top of branches, but always on the bottom of a horizontal branch, to make it more difficult for the squirrels to do damage.

thanks for the nitafilm link, that site is very interesting. We don't have much squirrel damage, because we don't have any nut trees or things squirrels like to eat, and the dogs would run them off. But, the dogs like to chew on soft plastic items.

I use a drip systems. Originally it was by the book, 20 years ago. The emitters clog and break and we thought the hose unattractive so covered it in mulch. The trees and plants cover the hose with roots and had to be cut out.
It's set up just like a regular sprinkler system only lots of drip feeds. We have several lines of buried sprinkler pipe that comes up and terminate in a hose fitting. I connect 1/2" to that. Each line has a manifold and the whole system is on a timer. I now just use the spray emitters on everything. I get them at Ewing's in 25 packs. The line lays on top of the ground and I rely on my growing plants to cover it. I don't check them often because I can walk through my yard and my radar picks up a plant in trouble. If I get a new plant I walk out with my automatic hole poker and stick in another 1/4' line and sprayer. Thankfully it is a very versatile way to water. 20 years ago there were no trees and too much sun. Now I don't have enough sun. There is a greenhouse on the old vegetable garden, hardly any roses in the rose garden. It's very simple to maintain and I am out in my garden everyday doing what ever it takes. A lot of the fancy stuff is not worth the money, clogs or breaks. The small bubblers or sprayers can be closed down or opened up to adjust the amount of water. They are durable and all I need.
This is the kind of thing you have to maintain yourself but is not difficult after setup. It's part of the joy of home ownership, ha! I do a lot of these things myself because I always want way more then I can afford. I am hooked on the robust growth you get when a plant gets regular watering. I also can't wait for someone to do it for me.
And there is a little matter of that great big RV out there. The dog comes along, all my plants are on drip or sprinklers and we take off.

Half , not all of Gardenguru1950 points are true, others are wrong. I have used drip irrigation for 30 years. Also the counter point that drip irrigation produdcts are being sold therefore they must work is BS, He is right in that there is huge sub-industry industry makes a lot of money and does not necessarily weed out what works and does not work. I have visited many professional stores and they are willing to continue selling the crap Pepco manifolds (Pepco's other products are good). So folks sell stuff that makes money. FOlks are willing to buy because in CA and other dry states there is a lot fo marketing from govt an companies that irrigation is necessary - and it is necessary but the drip products have serious limitation and some of them are pretty bad.

(e.g the Randrip 4 and 8 port manifold's connectors constantly break and the plastic screws on the top do not last in the sun and so needs to be frequently replaced.)

Maintenance is is huge problem - every spring. You miss a little and plants can die.

Here is what works me that I have fingured out after 30 years:

1) 1/4inch Laser drilled quarter inch tubing - very low maintenance esp in bay area which fortunately has soft water. This item is not pressure compensating but worked better in mixed zones of mini-sprayers and drips. Problem with the 0.5 gph embedded emitters is that they need to run for long and cannot be mixed in a zone containing mini-sprays since their run time is small.

I connect these to to 1/2 inch block poly or to the orbit adjustable manifold whuch has 4 or 8 adjustable 1/4inch outlets.

Bad news: all the manufacturer have stopped making the laset drip because the stores that sold them did not know how to advice customers to use them (Including the Urban Farmers store). NDS/RainDrip - please please please bring this item back in. It is very low maintenance if you have soft to medium-hard water and it it just damn works. I have pipes that are 20 year old that still drip well (In fremont CA)

2) Adjustable sprayers (0-10 gpm) either 180 or 360. Connect them to 1/2 inch poly or even to the adjustable Orbit manifold. Work good but need to be flushed every spring.

3) I use either 4-8 outlet manifold from orbit or the 1/2 inch poly pipe depending on my needs to connect either of the above two.

4) Occasionally I have used the 1/4 inch tubing with inline pressure compensating drippers -- they have worked out so so - and they need dedicated zones where they need to run for longer time. For example my vegetable garden has dedicated zone and this may work there but the micro sprayer or the laser drip works every better.

The drip industry is making huge amounts of money and many many of their products (like the button drippers regardless of whether it is Raindrip verison or the more expensive one from the high end manufacturers) are crap (they might work for pots or hanging plants but useless for wider use - you step on them and they are dead). Many folks just buy, install and only realize that after a couple of years they are not working too well or that the maintenance is a pain.

A few products do work -- but you have to ask the guys who have experience. And many of the professional installers often do not use them at their own home - they install and move on and things stop working after a couple years or is too much maintenance. I have talked some of the professional installer and have seen their work at my neighbors - only a very few know what really works and what does not. I have also talked to landscape stores that sell professional products some know and some do not - most of them are not using the products themselves and do not have a clue - all they can tell you is what is being sold.