Hi Kelli,
Had a similar situation once with roses and could not get a response. I called my credit card company (master card)and told them they merchandise was faulty and the company would not respond to my calls... so they removed the charge and dealt with the client themselves to acquire the money. Its a nice solution.

Kelli, try contacting Jerome at Koi Gardens again. Many people on this board have purchased plants from him and were very happy with what they got. I personally liked the one plant that I purchased from him. It was small but with a very good root system. The company has a two year money back guarantee on their plants so either getting them replaced or your money refunded should not be a problem. This time of the year is typically a very busy time for most people in the plant industry since spring and fall are prime times as far as sales go.

I am wondering if the plants fried on their way to you. Where do you live,have you been experiencing warm to hot weather, and did the postal person leave the plants in the sun? I know many a time I have had to rescue a mail order plant from the hot sun and hot mailbox even when the box was marked "Protect from Heat-Live Plants Enclosed".

Kelli, I can understand your frustration. Please read the thread on the Rose forum. Jerome explained what happened and offered a nice compensation to people who received Clematis in unsatisfactory shape. As Miguel suggested, try to contact Jerome again.

Kelli,

Many of the clematis I got from Jerome "looked" dead, but they are coming up nicely now. I'm very pleased. The clematis he sells have excellent root balls which is more important to me than top growth.

robert

I seriously doubt they are dead..they are Dormant..you can see those lovely roots..just get them planted and if any don't thrive I am positive he will replace them...Jeanne

Hello,

There is nothing there. I took them over to a master gardener and I asked what I could do with them. There were no roots and she said to throw them away. I personally think this is a poor way to do business. We have tried to contact Jerome a number of times but he will not answer back. He does not stand behind his products. Also we got 4 clematis that we did not order instead of the ones we did order but I guess that doesn't mean anything because all I got was dirt.

I have been growing clematis for over 10 years so I do know a thing or two about them. I know I got the bad end of the deal with Koi Gardens.

Kelli

So, you are saying that there weren't any plants in those pots, just pots of dirt? Not a root, nothing?

Carol

Hello Kelli,

I'm sorry to hear about this tragic situation. We do stand behind our plants, and you are entitled to some kind of compensation.

To everybody who is wondering,
Koi Garden Club is a small incorporated company made up of 2 owners, one a landscaper and the other a construction person. In 2007 I, Jerome, was on payroll to build the online presence and handle the mail order. Business was relatively slow and over the winter we decided that we could not afford to pay me full time. I work a full time job outside of Koi Garden now and am working weekends to get everbodies' plants shipped to them in a timely and successful manner. We had 1500 clematis on hand and that is why we had the fall sale and spring sale, to bring the inventory down. It has been a very late running winter and over the past 3 weeks have been uncovering our plants and getting orders shipped between snow storms and working our other jobs. We have even been ordering in new clematis from Donahues to ensure that as many people are getting as many of the clematis they ordered in this hectic time.

All 3 of us are very honorable people and will do everything in our power to ensure that everybody is getting satisfactory service. I clearly got too far behind in the emails and am now dealing with 130 emails from this past week. Please be patient with us, we will do you right. I found out about this thread from an email Kelli sent to me and will be sending a carbon copy to her email as well.

These are not excuses, just letting you know who Koi Garden Club is and what we're doing.

As for the dead plants, I am absolutely befuddled. We have been getting GREAT feedback about our dormant shipped clematis. Clearly something unexpected happened during shipment, they either got cooked or frozen or lost in shipping just long enough to kill them. I don't know. In an order of $100 it is highly unlikely that we shipped that many dead plants. We have been very diligent about making sure that every plant we box is either showing good bud development or has a nice fat root ball with plump, healthy roots. I am deeply sorry about the stress this has caused you. If you would, please send more details about the climate where you received the plants and any details about the shipment that seemed out of place. Was the box kicked around? Were the plants hot and sweaty? Did it smell rotten when you opened it? Any details at all would be greatly appreciated so we don't make the same mistake again. Because we are such a small operation and because this is such an unusual situation, would you please send us a photo of the damage? Also, my gmail can only find the one email for the name "Kelli" or "(last name)" or "Kelli (last name)". Was the order placed in a different name or email, perhaps your mother's?

Respectfully,
Jerome

i must say i purchased 13 clems this year from four different vendors,koi's were by far the best of the bunch.the root system was awesome.just a bud peeking out no top growth at all,that was three weeks ago. they now stand about 14 inches high, five or six vines coming up.holding on tightly to small pot trellis.just my opinion but sounds like someone is trying to bad mouth koi for what ever reason.next season im buying all my clems from koi

Here is a link that might be useful: some pics

Kelli:

I kind of understand what you feeling. I spent a fortune on begonia bulbs this year from a very reputable grower. When I receive them they were either dried up like prunes or rotten. Their advice was to plant them, if they don't come out then contact them. Most of the "runes"came back to life after potting. The rotten ones got replaced.

Back to clematis:

My opinion of Koi Gardens: Although I felt some frustration at first because many of my choices were out of stock, but I was EXTREMELY HAPPY with what I got. I got some of them this spring with the credit to got more later. They even give me some free ones. Some of them had so much roots on them that I barely saw any dirt in those 2 1/2" pots.
With this kind of generosity, I doubth they did try to short change you on purpose. Your problem may have happened after the box left them.

But I was kind of confused by your description of the problem.

"They were in a tiny box and most of them were dead..."
"There is nothing there. I took them over to a master gardener and I asked what I could do with them..."
"Also we got 4 clematis that we did not order instead of the ones we did order but I guess that doesn't mean anything because all I got was dirt. "

They had well advertised that their plants were going to ship in 2 1/2" pots and you surely knew that before ordering. So there is no fault there.

You mentioned the plants were dead, so you had some dried up top growth, right? Then you said there were no roots just dirt. So you got some dried top growth without any roots, non what so ever? If they have roots they will sprout either from blew ground or from the "dead top growth", remember they are coming from MN which still is in middle of winter. I just cannot imagine those tick plump roots were non existing in ALL your pots and you just got sticks coming out of dirt.

And the 4 you did not ordered, maybe they were freebies. Koi is known to give away freebies just to say thank you for ordering.

Are you sure there were from Koi Gardens? Maybe you got them from another vendor your mom ordered from and you did not know about. The way you were describing sounds like you got a bag of bare roots. It just does not sounds like Koi Gardens. Many many of us here ordered from them in the past and this spring, and no one ever had this problem with.

Maybe you can post some pictures from the plants and packaging here for us to help you more.

I hope you can resolve your problem soon,

FJ

Hi Kelli,

Hang in there, I'm very sure that Jerome and Koi Gardens will do right by you. I purchased a good amount of Clematis from Koi Gardens last fall when they were having that great sale, and the plants I received where in great condition with good root systems. I lost a couple over the winter due to almost 4-5 months of continuous snow storms and them sitting in water for weeks when it melted but all the rest of them are growing like gangbusters now, I am very pleased. They even sent me a free plant for all the orders I placed and that to me is good customer service. So please hang in there, I know they'll replace the plants that you lost.

Linda

I checked out this person's personal page:
Welcome to kmtolbert's Member PageSee my Clippings See my Journal See my trade list

I live in: United States

My birthday is on October 31.

First registered on May 2, 2008.
So you can see they just registered...so how did they know about Koi prior to this..I have a feeling I KNOW who this is and why

It sounded strange to me too, Jeanne. I was hoping that I was wrong though because I can't fathom that someone would do something so mean. Koi Garden is some one's livelihood and it is hard enough for a small nursery to make it without someone falsely accusing them of a poor product and poor service. The story just doesn't seem to ring true if you know what I mean. Like I said, I hope I am wrong.

Carol

Hmm, ditto Carol. I thought this whole thread sounded fishy. I hope like you that we are wrong, but you never know about some people these days.

Jeanne, the person could have read about Koi Gardens here last year and this year in various postings and ordered based on what they had heard. They could have just registered to vent since you do have register to make any postings. Sure hope it isn't someone trying to smear someone's reputations since there have been way too many people who have ordered from Koi Gardens and not had plants shipped in the conditions described by this poster.

Put me down also as having ordered from them and having received very satisfactory plants with good root systems, all of which are coming back strongly now.

Jerome, I need to pipe in here and say that I am extremely happy with all the clematis that I received from you last fall. All have made it through our harsh winter with flying colors. I had some concerns about two of them only due to where I was placing them and they very robustly returned this spring. I knew I would be stressing them where they now live but was willing to take the risk because I wanted them to climb a tree for me. I feel that I will never be in need of the two year warranty receipt that I received with my order. All the plants are happy and healthy with vigorous growth. I can safely say that I will be returning to purchase from you again and again with no hesitation due to your excellent customer service and personal attention to my order. Your post speaks volumes as to your personal character and the integrity of Koi Gardens.

Respectfully,
Tracy

I received my 5 clematis from Koi Gardens last week and received 2 bonus clematis since they were sold out of 'Josephine'. Yes, they were small and dormant, but the roots were very large. I just repotted them, put them in my small greenhouse on the lower bench away from full sun. In just a weeks time, they have broken out of dormancy and are slowly leafing out. I am very pleased with Koi Gardens and would definitely reorder from them.

I thought it was strange that she claimed to have emailed Koi Gardens repeatedly and Jerome could only find one email, that there sent up a red flag for me but was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. I sure hope everyone is wrong. I'd hate to think that people would go to such extremes.

Of the two that I thought I might have lost due to the harsh winter we had, there does appear to be a root system there. I tried pulling the stem of the Dutchess of Albany up yesterday and found that it was attached to a very large set of roots. Not sure why I'm not seeing any top growth but I will leave both of them alone in hopes that they will start showing some growth once it warms up here. The other clem is Will Goodwin.

Miguel, do you remember when I posted about my Montana Rubens and you advised me to plant it somewhere facing south in hopes that it would make it through a zone 5 winter? Well I did just that and although I did think that I had lost this clem, I am now seeing some tiny green leaves poking through. This is another clem I purchased from Koi Gardens.

All the rest of mine are growing very well and I'm sure I'll see blooms this summer at the rate they're growing.

Linda

Linda..with you being in a colder zone..Clematis "DoA" is later to emerge..Mine is just about 2 feet tall now...some clematis are slower than others...sure hope you didn't hurt the crown when you pulled on it

Linda, I found it strange that someone who claimed to have grown clematis for 10 years had to take plants to a master gardener to determine what to do with them. A person with 10 years of experience with clematis would know better what to do with them and if they were viable than a master gardener who might never have grown them at all.

As for your montana, since it was a newbie last year, I wouldn't worry about the fact that it froze back to the ground this past winter. Give it some time to get acclimated and then see what it will do. It still might get frozen back to the ground each year or the flower buds get frozen off anyway, but you never know until you try.

Jeanne, my Duchess of Albany which is growing on the north side of the house is already 4 feet tall and growing up and through a japanese maple and over an Otto Luyken laurel. Can't wait for it to start blooming.

But mine was a baby Miguel..I planted it last fall..
Yeah..this whole "experience thing" and "taking to a MG" was a bit over the top..sometimes people just embellish wayyyy too much and get caught..and his clematis don't come in "a little box" anyway? duh??

What???? You just got DofA this past fall??? How could you have gone so long without getting this one Jeanne?? In my opinion this is one of several clematis that everyone should have. The older it gets, the better it gets!

My clematis from Koi Gardens certainly didn't come in a little box Jeanne. A little pot yes, but no box for mine!

Had to chime in... not only are the 2 clematis I ordered from Koi Gardens (Dr. Ruppel and Venosa Violacea) and the 1 clematis thrown in as a freebie (Inspiration) fabulous and healthy plants, but the tulip bulbs I bought from KG have outperformed all the others I planted - plus, Jerome was delightful to email with, wonderfully responsive, and showed the patience of a saint when I took forever to decide which tulips I wanted.

Just wanted to share my experiences, as well.

I know Miguel..I am slow on some stuff..LOL...Oh yea and I forgot to say the Butterfly bush I got from Jerome is HUGE this year...and about to bloom...his plants are wonderful!!...Jeanne

I bought 34 last year and about half of them are starting to show life after the snow cover we had constantly from November to March.

But about 1/3 of the larger plants I had bought locally haven't come up yet either.

A few had wilted last Fall, and I am not so sure they will come up, but with such good roots it is entirely possible.

I keep checking for new life every day, and won't be ready to ask for replacements, if necessary, until at least mid June.

And I am looking forward to seeing the new ones for this year.

Marie

VERY GOOD experience from Koi Gardens. The ones that looked "dead" were of course dormant and have now started sprouting well. No complaints here. Jerome seems like a really nice guy, to boot. GaryStPaul

I got mine last week and the roots were so huge I had to cut the pots off to get them out. They are all settling in nicely so far and the couple that were dormant still looked healthy so I find that very hard to believe. I know he was behind on his shipping but he compensated me also with a free one due to a couple being out of stock that I ordered. He was very nice to deal with and I would definitely order from him again. I am new to this forum and even I knew it was a small operation. I emailed him once to check on the status and he got back to me within a couple of days. I also saw a post on here from someone else that explained part of the delay was a family emergency so I did not pester him. I for one hope the person who started this gets his story straight. Why would you take a pot of dirt to a master gardener. Anyone can dump out a pot and see if there is nothing there. It doesn't take special training for that. If something happened to the plants in shipping then I feel Jerome would replace them with proper photos of the damage.

I cannot post here using Mozilla but it looks like I can pots by using IE. One mystery is solved, not 100% but part of it.

Kelli, believe me, there is no way that you got $100 worth of dirt. Maybe you are not so experienced with starter plants, maybe in the past you saw only 1-gallon flowering plants at chain stores.

But, you see, here on the clematis forum there are serious clematis experts like Jeanne, Miguel (Nckvilledudes), Violetta and others like Carol and Robert - if they say that these plants are good, give them the benefit of doubt, these people know clematises. So try to take good care of the plants you got. Good, even excellent were my 30+ plants from Koi. Some already bloomed, some is blooming now, some is growing and a few seem to slow but alive. If one or two would fail to grow I was offered, as everybody else, a 2 years guarantee -
Nobody in the nursery trade is so generous. What more you expect?

Master gardeners can be good and sometime outright silly. I had a hilarious story at our local coop extension service where a MG looked at my roses and thought that he saw hydrangeas or buddleias till a stem pricked him.

You didn't even mention your zone. In colder zones plants starts growing later. And even in my z8 since we had nice, coldish weather, unfortunately very little rain, so my several years old plants (clematises, roses, perennials, etc) are also late and new plants take more time to get established though sometimes they are faster if the root system is good. The Koi clematises had superb roots  and that is the main issue here.

Oh good gracious, ceterum, you included ME in your list of experts? I don't know squat compared to those other folks! I appreciate the vote of confidence, though!

Check this out, it blew my mind! Real email:

Q: OH, HELP!!!!! I emailed you before telling you how I had gotten my box last fall and then had to go out of town for a period of time before I could get them planted. I was just going to throw the box away, when I opened it, and I swear there's living stuff in there! Of course the original plant has died back; but there's white vine-looking stuff on all but one plant - and there's 24 plants! Can these be salvaged? I put them upright in my cookpots and put water in them to saturate the roots. What should I do next to try to salvage them? I'm stunned and excited. I'D APPRECIATE ANY ADVICE YOU CAN GIVE ME!!! Deb C. May-23-08

A: Wow! That is a sad but exciting success story! Here is my advice:

They should be good and saturated by now so leave them in their pots, set them in a shady area, keep them watered every day, and let them develop some good green foliage. Once they have some strong growth going, plant them in their permanent homes.

Alternatives:
#1 - transplant them into #1 nursery pots or equivalent and grow them out in a shady area gradually moving them to sunnier areas as they really start growing.

#2 - Plant them directly into their permanent homes and make sure to plant them about 2 inches deeper than the top of the current soil level so that all that tender white growth doesn't get sunburn shock and fry. (It is always a good idea to plant clematis a little deeper anyway.)

Wow, what a cool story! Feel free to share this story with the folks over at the GardenWeb Clematis Forums. Some of the most experienced and knowledgeable clematis experts there might be able to offer even more or better advice. Look for Jeanne and Nickvilledude among others. They really know their clematis! Best of luck to you! Jerome

It blows my mind also Jerome. Am I reading this correctly, that the person got clematis last fall from you and they were left in the box until just recently?? If so, it only goes to show how resilient clematis can be and how totally clueless some people can be with plants.

I'd believe it in a heartbeat...those little babies of yours are strong little buggers..Mine are all fabulous Jerome..thanks again...Jeanne

Hello all you wonderful customers!

KGC had a business meeting and the 3 of us decided that none of us have the time to continue with Koi Garden Club operations online. As I said in another thread, we all work full time jobs this year because things didn't work out like we had hoped last year when I was working KGC full time. Actually it's more like the 3 of us all have different visions and expectations of what KGC was and the direction it was going.

I'm shutting down the website sales pages and the eBay listings and letting KGC online go dormant once all shipping has been accomplished.

The 3 of us are currently in negotiations for me, Jerome, to possibly buy Koi Garden Club online from Koi Garden Club, Inc. I've spent a full year plus developing the relationship with you folks and it kills me to see it going down the tubes.

My apologies to those of you that have had to deal with the stress of the past month or so. Please rest assured that I personally am trying to make sure everybody is satisfied before the doors close completely (for the time being!)

Incidentally, we will continue to honor the 2 year guarantee even after the doors are closed. I will honor all guarantee terms if I become the new owner, or if not we will be offering refunds for the full two years regardless.

You have all been an incredibly supportive customer base and I thank you all sincerely for helping me to discover a new facet of my online dream and vision. Please watch for me in the future.

Sincerely,
Jerome

Jerome,

I'm SO sad to hear this. I ended up not buying from you but only because you didn't have the varieties I wanted. I found out the hard way that you HAVE to order early -- which I didn't so it was my fault and NOT yours!

If I may make a suggestion -- continue to post here now and then and maintain your relationship with the folks on this forum. Then when and if you get something new started you will still have good will. Even if its not mail order there are folks local to you here and referrals to people who are local can be made. Just because you aren't currently in business doesn't mean you can't maintain your reputation here. :)

Here's a link to keep you amused and horrified -- the potential for customers to be idiots appears to be endless.

Good luck with whatever you do, Jerome. You are one of the Good Guys!

Peace,
Jane

Here is a link that might be useful: The Customer is NOT Always Right!

Hello Everybody.

Thank you for your great support this past spring. Koi Garden Club is now mine!

First things first, anybody with claims, refunds, or replacements, I am addressing them now. Thank you for your patience.

Somebody needed some Florida Sieboldii last spring, got some of those in, plus others.