I know of at least two people who make their living with plants and who have degrees who say they learn "tons" by reading our ramblings.

It depends on the forum. Mainly I would say books by experts. I have several books by gardeners who grow plants in this zone. I'm thinking mainly Elizabeth Lawrence, Michael Dirr, the Wasowskis, and Liz Druitt. Nancy Goodwin just put out a book too. I've learned about many plants from reading the NG and PD catalogs, and keep them as references! Plus, gardening is never an absolute. No one ever knows it all. I got the feeling reading E. Lawrence's books that the longer she gardened, the less she knew for sure. There's a point at which knowledge becomes less important and feel becomes more important, and it's an interaction between the gardener, the plants, and his or her particular plot of land. Whether it's taking cuttings or figuring out what you can get away with regarding zones or planting times or whatever.

For something as highly specialized and broad as roses, iris, daylilies, etc. I would say the Gardenweb forums. You just have to be willing to wade through all the information -- the posts from different parts of the country where the climate is different from ours, the poster who says my rose looks great but I just put it in this spring. Although occasionally I think I could get the same thing out of reading catalogs in the winter evenings. The main advantage of the forums is the brutally honest evaluations of the plants by posters. Which very well might not keep me from trying something in particular.

I don't think ANYTHING trumps a little education complemented by A LOT of shared personal experience.

United we stand, blah blah blah...

Seriously, scientists and doctors love to talk about how "anecdotal evidence" doesn't mean anything unless you can reproduce it under controlled conditions in double-blind placebo-controlled conditions, blah blah blah, but frankly, I mostly consider all that "boundary maintenance" by a lot of folks who don't feel like having to wade through anecdotal evidence and "separating the wheat from the chaff."

Frankly, I see some really idiotic comments on this and other forums sometimes, idiotic claims I don't believe. But I ALSO see a lot of consensus from VERY experienced and careful gardeners -- often those who actually document everything they do with photographs, or in a notebook with dates, times, temperatures, and so forth. And YES, I think that if a half dozen or so people from the same area in say, this forum, who consistently prove by their postings they know what they're talking about voice the same opinion about a plant, or planting condition, or growing condition(s), or whatever -- even if it's in DIRECT CONTRADICTION to Dirr (who I agree is a sort of demigod of plants), or whoever -- then those half dozen have more crediblity in MY BOOK for that particular circumstance and area than what any book written by any "expert" says.

There's nothing like personal experience. They say pond frogs don't eat below their sightline, but I've seen them actually sit and continually catch minnow fry that were swimming in the shallows down at leg level, so I KNOW FIRSTHAND they do. I even got pictures. So I don't care WHAT the experts say, I either saw an exception, or the experts haven't seen all the regular circumstances and have generalized from less than complete information.

Soooo, as far as THIS forum goes, I know AT LEAST a half dozen posters, including the two so far, from whom I would take seriously any information contributed.

We were SUPPOSED to have first frost here Oct. 15. Today's Nov. 15 and my potted brugmansias are in full bloom -- third year in a row, too. But the experts don't agree.

Who's right? The experts, or the REAL weather?

Happy Gardening!
Jeff

I forgot to mention local gardens and arboreta that are open to the public. Those and the local nurseries are great for "pre-testing" what will do well here. And since the JC Raulston Arboretum has all their plantings listed on line, including how long ago they were planted, it's an especially valuable resource.

It's good to see you posting again Jeff, you've been missed.

One of the first places I look for a description of what I am enamored with is the NC Invasive Exotic Plant List.

I have several books that I refer to often:

Gardening with Native Plants of the South,
AHS Plant Propagation, and another prop book by Alan Toogood (What a cool name!)
Rodale's Illustrated Encyclopedia of Herbs,
Southeastern Wildflowers,
Tree Identification for the Southern US, and,
Southern Living Garden Book (akin to Sunset's Garden Book which is written for the Western States).

These have all been dogeared, dirtied, and watered on, but the most information I have gleaned is from this Forum. Joan_NC got me started on it and I have learned so much from her too. I totally think that the swaps are the best way to share information about plants since we always bring home something we have no idea what it is and then pick everyone's brain for care and feeding and get lots of enjoyment from the sharing.

I love going to each other's gardens and listening to the lament of 'soon' this or that, all the while seeing what they have done from basically nothing to today's spectacular when I see it. We all tend to put ourselves down for not having the garden at perfection - ready for the cameras, but others see it as an expression of the people who love their space - some yell, some stroll, some yank and twist, some touch every petal and leaf, some wax profusely about one particular growing thing, some just smile and rock in the chair enjoying what they spent 47 hours getting de-weeded and watered, and some of us do all of that everyday.

This forum provides technical information, but also the human side of making things grow. We are not so proud as to say everything we plant will grow, will not have bugs and diseases, and be prolific enough to share. Here we say, 'been there, done that, got a T-shirt', but we'll try again next year! And, there are so many people who point us to web sites or books that provide an ever expanding realm that we would not have been exposed to otherwise. There is just so much surfing one can do... Glowing writeups about Artemesia 'Limelight' for sale has nothing on 'this stuff is rhizoming its way to the back forty!' from someone who was smitten by the lovely leaves and has regretted it ever since.

I surf the web for plant descriptions and growing conditions, I look at the pretty pictures and read the sales-hype - then I go to my books and search the forums here at the GardenWeb.

Here is a link that might be useful: Invasive Plant List for NC

That was eloquent and sincere, nancedar! And so sane and balanced and even a little down home.

I must say that i was shocked to see English Ivy and Poncirus Trifoliata (didn't you just buy one?) on a significant threat list along with HENBIT! That's like seeing Pat Boone's name on a "persons of interest" list. I guess it's all in light of the really big ecological picture.

until the internet was "invented", my 30 yr old "taylor's encyclopedia of gardening" served as my only reference. i tried to fill the gaps in the info it provided by talking to staff at local nurseries. i've never had the good fortune to know many gardeners until i found this forum. since that lucky day, my knowledge of our zone and the plants that grow here has grown tremendously. the gems of wisdom, gained through experience, tucked into these threads are seemingly endless. every day i'm learning about plants i never knew existed, and i can't tell you how many are now additions to my garden that i could no longer live without. it's always fun to learn more and more of the technical/scientific kind of stuff, but it's the practical cultivation info and new plant introductions i receive from the contributors to this forum that i consider priceless. if i find myself wanting additional information, i still pull out the taylor's, or check to see what elizabeth lawrence had to say, or surf the web. i read a lot about many other subjects and interests, but it's the "doing" of gardening that inspires me most - so, i'm not a voracious consumer of horticultural books.

Before I found this forum I constantly poked around on the internet and bought books for reference that were recommended by someone either in gardening articles on the net or in magazines. So far my most useful reference book is Dirr's Manual of Woody Landscape Plants. I bought the AHS Encyclopedia of Garden Plants and while I do use it from time to time I take all the zone info with a grain of salt since it lists plant zones very conservatively. For perennials I still keep all my PD catalogs and go to those often. I know I still have tons to learn and long list of book wants. This forum is so very valuable to me because I'm not a very social person and didn't know anyone who was as interested in gardening as myself. Personal experience from local gardeners cannot be ignored when seeking advise IMO and I appreciate all responses from questions I post here.

Dammit Jeff, when is YOUR book coming out already?????? I really do think you could do a very readable one, lol!

As an advanced gardener, it is very hard for me to find a book that gives me as much info as the garden web and the internet. I did however start off with books, and they are indispensable for an organized coverage of a topic. And I can sit with them in my lap and browse the pages. The internet is mind boggling in its reach and breadth of information (I know- not all of it believeable). I think the garden web is similar to the concept of collective intelligence. One person alone may not know the answer, but someone in the group will. My other good reference is back issues of Fine Gardening and Carolina Gardening. They have focused topics that go in depth.

I read the books and magazines and surf around on the net. You can never accept one source as final, whether book or website though you can find some sources to be more reliable than others. All of them carry contradictory information, so i like to check several sources. This forum is so helpful becuase it's practical experience from people gardening in the same area. Zone requirements, often the only information on the plant label, only tells one tiny part of the picture. I have found that only people who garden near you can tell you whether something grows in the area, and how to best care for it. Before I found this forum I struggled trying to get so many plants to grow that really weren't suited best for this area. I still push boundaries, but at least I can find out when I am pushing them and how to boost my odds with the help of this forum. -Ais.