It has been a consistent failure at the Lovett Pinetum in southwest MO.

Resin

Hello johnstaci
I live in WI and also trying to grow sugar pine.I have a relative who works for the forest service in CA.after talking with him a few yrs back.He thinks sugar pine should grow in eastern WI zone 5b.
So I bought a few seedlings and lost 9 of 10 the first winter,I was not happy at all with the quality of the seedlings and felt they were dead when I received them.So I bought seed and grew some myself,after planting 15 in the field w/wire cages for protection 10 came threw ok w/15 more in pots with white pine seedlings,all 15 came threw winter ok.
After reading about the problems nurseries out west have transplanting s/pine over two yrs old,because of a deep root system.I will plant the rest of mine this fall.
I am planting my s/pine protected from winter winds and muched with pine needles.
Blister rust is not a big problem in my area,but it does exsist.If they don't die from that I don't see why they won't make it.
my soil is a sandy loam.

I've had about 50 seedlings germinate - most are about 4" tall and look pretty healthy. lpptz5b - good to know there is at least some hope.

Does anyone have suggestions on when to transplant to permanent location? Read the tree develops a long taproot at an early age. Was thinking of transplanting most of them this fall.

My goal is to get at least one or 2 to survive. Haven't heard of any of these trees in the midwest, so I may not get any to grow, but haven't heard of any attempts other than Lovett Pinetum. Since these are the largest of all pines and develop the largest cone of all conifers, it would be pretty dang cool to get one to grow.

John

I went ahead and planted several seedlings in their permanent locations last fall. They went through the month of October with zero rain and a very harsh winter. Most of the outplanted seedlings have made it. I did take my time to dig the long tap root out of the planting bed. The roots had grown about 10 inches while the seedlings were only about 3 inches tall. I had read that the taproots make them difficult to transplant, so I figured I'd try to outplant a few at an early age to see if they could make it. The rest I plan to move this fall - hopefully the taproots are not out of control.

Does anyone know if sugar pine seedlings have survived outplanted for more than a year or 2 in the midwest?

lpptz- Sounds like you have had some luck germinting them - have you outplanted any?

What are the biggest sugar pines east of the Rockies? I know they are the tallest of all pines, but I almost never see them mentioned on this forum.

john

I have a few w/2winters in the field.They look good but are growing slowly.I have read that it takes a few years to establish themselves.
The trees I started from seed,grown in tubes,then planted in the ground the following spring are off to the best start.
I heard of some over 100 yrs east of the mississippi

,but those are the only details I remember.

lp

lp- My seedlings in the planting bed just now started to push new shoots and are approaching a foot tall. I'm thinking I should have outplanted them all last fall or early this spring. Am worried I may kill them this fall when transplanting if their tap root grows as much as it did the previous year.

Would be interested to find the location of the 100yr old sugar pines (or any sugar pines for that matter) in the Midwest/East if you come accross it.

John

If they are in pots,I would try planting some now,and some in fall.I feel a tree in a perminent location is better than in a a pot.
You must be doing something right,at a foot tall,they are taller than mine.

lp

i growing a sugar pine new england zone 6...i heard theres one in boston, though, somehow, at sometime. i tried planting the usual seedlings here, and usually they die. not sure why, the wet, the cold, who knows. I sually have to grow seedlings i get from the west, like sequoias, in a container for a little while, and either dig em up (carefully) and bring them into a sunny window lit room for the winter. Ideally, as one with bonzais one should have a cold, windowed area, which i dont have really. while this isnt good for a pine which needs the cold to restart its growth, the sugar pine really did bulk up alot indoors for the winter and in a container, outside int he direct sun for summer. now it's a much better little tree, with some top candles and one decent tuft of needles, and fromt he looks of it, it might do fine, if i had to guess: it looks ready to rock'n'roll. the western white pine does fine here seemingly. i know its suppoosedly a tad hardier. i wouldnt plant them if they look like smaller (i know its hard to tell from smaller, but the size of the standard seedlign youd get from giant sequoia.com, about a one of two yearer) directly in, esp before winter. Protect through winters, esp. at first. the tree from the west or nursery often needs to adapt to the conditions here.

Any updates?

Thanks for the link, conifer50. Don't know if that sugar pine is healthy now, but it's definitely done some growing.

I'd like to see the canopy also as it must have/had lots of needles to produce that much bio mass.

What the heck is a sugar pine ?

ron

West coast native:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinus_lambertiana

I just got some seeds and was hoping to hear any updates from those who planted them a few years back. The PA tree is promising but I'm not sure how well it will deal with our humidity here in the Southeast and heavy red clay.

Haven’t been on the forum in several years. Thanks for the pic of the PA tree. At my place one sugar pine made it past the first year after transplant. That tree has done well- about 15 foot tall now. I removed lower branches as I read that helps prevent issues this tree has and may increase survival odds.

So one pound of seed to ultimately grow one tree. Takes patience/stubbornness to get going but seems to do well if you get em past first year.

John

I just recently sent for some sugar pines that the Sugar Pine Foundation sent me. I received them the other day and they really look pretty good.

I suspect the recommended hardiness zones (zone 7) for this tree are wrong. The S.P. foundation told me there are sugar pines growing at Truckee, CA. The record low temp for Truckee is -32°F. There was also a sugar pine growing at the Univ, of Idaho arboretum for about 80 years until it finally died. They've had temps to -42°F at that location that did not appear to phase it.

The guy at the arboretum told me that it is actually the heat and humidity in the Midwest that tends to kill many of those western conifers. Or, quite possibly, it weakens them so that they cannot make it through the following winter since they've already entered the winter in a weakened condition.

Anyhow, we'll see what happens with mine. If I can remember, I'll provide an update next year.

-FMC,

Topeka, IN

Fred, typically needle diseases that west coast trees have little/no defense against are what hurt/kill them in humid (Indiana) climates.

I am writing back again with an update. Four out of five of the sugar pine seedlings that I'd received from the Sugar Pine Foundation have sprouted and look fairly vigorous at this point. I thought that one of the five was a goner but now it too is starting to shoot buds. The weather here has been cool and wet - ideal for planting trees.

As for the needle diseases I spray them with systemic fungicide (Propiconazole). I have actually had pretty good luck with this with rust on Sequoias and needle tip blight on ponderosa pine.

I suspect that my sugar pines might make it here but, of course, that's optimism. Time will tell.

Regards,

Fred M. Cain

Dear Johnstaci,

I admire your desire to take on a real challenge. But, it my own, honest, sincere and humble opinion, I would never, never, NEVER attempt to start sugar pines (or any other conifer for that matter) from seeds. Like I say, if you are looking for a challenge so that you can tell yourself “I did it! I grew a tree from a seed”, that’s fine.

But I think that if someone wants to grow conifers they would be much farther ahead by getting good, high quality seedlings from a reputable nursery. If you plant them and they make it, you would have at least a two or three year jump start on things!

Here is a good online nursery that I found that has sugar pine and some other really interesting and hard to find conifers including the rare “weeping spruce”:

https://lebeaubamboo.com/search.php?q=%23conifer

Here is another online nursery that I would strongly recommend. They don’t have sugar pine but they have some other really nice conifers that they ship in small pots. I got two grand firs, a ponderosa pine and a Doug fir this past spring (2019) and they have all done exceptionally well this summer. I was especially surprised with the grand fir ‘cause I don’t know anyone around here who has any. Here they are:

https://shop.plantsofthewild.com/Conifer-Trees_c7.htm

You see, when you plant a potted seedling like that, you can set it in the ground and the transplant shock is minimized. That gives you a head start. Then, just watch the topsoil and when the first two inches of soil dry out – water it.

I have to confess that I actually did grow some white firs from seeds just so I could tell myself, "Hey! I did it!" But for the most part, I'd rather leave the seed germination to the professionals at the nursery! :)

Regards,

Fred M. Cain,

Topeka, IN