Picea and Abies don't do this?

Thuja occidentalis 'Pyramidalis' planted July '07. Does this every fall, stick my head in any of them right now, all look the same. Wind knocks most out and I cleanup in spring whats stuck in the branches and on the ground.

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Dave

True story Ken,
Unfortunately some conifer names you mentioned aren't true written.

Pinus koraiensis 'Oculis Draconus'
must be written as
Pinus koraiensis 'Oculis-draconis'

Pinus parviflora 'Hagaromo'
must be written as
Pinus parviflora 'Hagoromo'

Chamaecyparis obtusa 'Golden Fernspray'
must be written as
Chamaecyparis obtusa 'Fernspray Gold'

I hope I helped you with this info.

thx joy.. will make changes when i give a dam ... lol ... just kidding ...

i snapped pix of the worst of the worst in my yard yesterday ... didnt really see anything on spruce/picea or abies ...

on some of the bluest of blue, blue spruce.. the waxy blue seemed a bit tired or worn off .... but no needle loss ...

ken

i do appreciate the name changes.. FOR MY DATABASE... i did take care of them ...

if you ever happen to notice a bad tag in a pic ... so be it ...

but the database must become pure and JOYful ...

ken

Hi Ken. I first thought this was an advert from the pro-tobacco league. Good on you to highlight this aspect of conifer-growing. It's always a bit worrying to see this happen for the first time on plants wich were planted less than one year ago, and of wich we don't know the good and not-so-good habits. Especially Pinus parviflora cv's, where the contrast between deep blue and orange-brown is striking. It is of course a good opportunity to clean up one's plants and to get to know them a bit better. T.
PS; And as I keep saying to myself: 'Plant more, smoke less !'

So this Eastern White Pine looks fine as well?

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Its been healthy all summer, and had a ton of cones this spring ... but suddenly turning yellow as an early winter and cold spell hits Colorado.

I have this happening on a Pinus strobus 'nana' for the last three years (since it was planted) but it comes through winter without any further problems. Actually, it is happening right now, even though we haven't had any cold nights so far. Maybe it's triggered strictly by daylenght, rather than temps? T.

Hi Bunkers - that pine doesn't look too good, that's more than just normal old foliage browning. There's only this year's foliage still green, it should be both this year's and last year's green, with the 2007 needles turning yellow and dropping. Could be a nutritional deficiency, could be root damage or disease; can't say which.

Resin

hey bunky

it depends..

how long since transplant ...

how big a transplant.. BB or potted.. root surgery????

what weather factors last winter and this year ...

regardless.. its all in the buds ... do they look healthy???

i had two OD densiflora.. lose every single needle.. 2 winters in a row ... after transplant .. and thy looked a heck of a lot worse than yours.. and never looked back ...

more facts for a better answer ..

ken

I agree, it doesn't look good. I recall thinking it was a goner last year as well, then it seemed fine by spring. This is the time when all the pines are dropping needles, but it seemed a bit excessive to me. This tree was planted around spring 2008 I think. It was a BB to pot when I got it. It wasn't big, maybe 10 or 15 gal. I have never fed it or fertilized ... its just sitting in a bed of mulch and thats it.

I was wondering whether conifers might benefit from a last minute nitrogen feed in the same way as lawns do.That is when the top has stopped growing but when the roots are still active. It is known that with grass the nitrogen will be stored in the roots. This helps to keep the grass green during winter and gives it the necessary reserves for taking off in spring. T.

You're on to something there, Tunilla. While some peeps don't advocate ANY fertilization of conifers, there is a school of thought that the time period you speak of is a window of opportunity to fertilize trees in general.

Me? I don't know!

;^)

+oM

hey tun and tom ....

i would think it is zonal ...

i dont need green grass under 2 feet of snow... nor would i want to risk a growth spurt ... as ground freeze is coming...

in my zone... i doubt you could harm the grass ...

but i would not want the conifers growing robustly from too much fert too late in the season .. rather than slowing down and hardening off ...

it would be all about PROPER TIMING OF APPLICATION .... and PROPER AMOUNT OF APPLICATIONS ... and the PROPER FERT COMPOUND too..

i will ALWAYS stand by my assertion that conifers/trees do NOT NEEDa LITTLEtree production.. or tree farms.. would be a completely different issue ... IMHO ...

ken

Ken,

THANK YOU for posting those photos. We put in our first Pinus parviflora ('Cleary') a few weeks ago. The burlap & clay ball fell apart as we were getting it out of the truck and it didn't have much of a root system, so we were really upset when it started looking yellow. It started out looking a lot like your "Blue Wave" photo and now the interior needles are dropping. The growth tips all look pretty good (except from maybe one or 2 little ones at the bottom). Such a relief to find out this is normal, especially for a poor little stressed tree. We are just starting to discover some of these wonderful conifers, and were really bummed to think we'd killed one of our first trees.

you are welcome ....

you dont allow email ... so i hope you come back ...

i would guess.. looking back 10 yeas.. i lost 10 of my first 40 .... THAT'S WHY I STARTED GOING WITH ONE GAL STOCK .... a lot cheaper to 'learn' with ...

please insure proper watering thru out the entire root area ...

ken

I actually did fertilize trees in the fall for a few years at my job. These were mostly broad-leaved deciduous types. My technique was to wait until they were losing their leaves to make the application. I used straight urea-46% nitrogen, as the goal was to get the material activated quickly. I know...the theory is good...but who knows, myself included, if it was really of any benefit?

+oM

Would that our nursery had one gallon stock! Although with small ones we'd probably be finding too many that we couldn't live with out and overplant like crazy. Really starting to see the appeal of a lot of the dwarf types.

We've been keeping the rootball watered--checking it with a finger to keep it damp but not soggy. The nursery had the bagged trees in the ground and it was pretty wet and mucky. My impression is that pines in general prefer their feet a little drier--is that the case? The poor little thing has been through some screwy weather--we had record highs into the 90s right after it went in the ground in early September, and this week it froze. All things considered, it's not looking too bad. Especially since interior needle drop is normal for this time of year. At least the rain is supposed to start today and it will have the rainy season to get established.

50% of my stock comes mail order .. in one gal size ...

you are really limiting yourself if you are relying on what your local guy can ship in ...

ken

Thanks for the browining pics. Something you usually don't see on many websites. I have an arborvitae that ends up variegated between yellow, green, and brown this time of year.

bump me up

Thanks Ken. Wish I had a picture but I have already knocked off the brown needles. Mine was a little more severe than the pics. But won't worry about it but WILL give it a good watering. I love this forum! Susie

keep on bumping it up

ken

Happy happy joy joy! My parviflora dumped those inner needles, then it stopped turning brown. There are one or 2 small branches that it might lose from the truck ride home from the nursery, but no more browning needles! Must have just been seasonal loss combined with a little transplant shock. The rains have started and it's looking like a happy tree once again.

Thanks again for the photos! They really helped keep us from panicking.

I would think you would want to fertilize lightly the second year to the third year,until the needles that have fallen have composted under the tree.What say ye all? joe

Joe, are you saying the addition of N would speed the decomposition? I believe that to be the case. But as a friend and former co-worker likes to say, 'it's all ball bearings'. Not sure what he means by that, but in this case, I'm using it to indicate that all these inputs, natural and what we provide, just get swept up into the normal growth/death cycle. So, IOW's, the trees will lose more old foliage in subsequent years anyway. The notion of fertilizing trees generally is in itself, one quite contentious subject, and beyond the scope of this thread.

On that score..and very briefly...it has been, and continues to be my belief that moderate fertilizer applications to trees that ARE NOT brand new transplants will do no harm, and may help growth. Sometimes, depending on the situation, that end result is not even desirable. It just 'pends.

+oM

IMHO .....

an ESTABLISHED TREE ... does NOT need fert ...

ergo.. its a waste of money ... and that is always my bottom line ...

if we presume.. that a conifer/tree is 10 feet tall ... [r/o dwarf/mini etc.. for now] ... then its feeder roots might be 20 feet away ...

what are you going to do ... go fertilize the neighbors lawn ....????

i will stand by my usual statement that trees/conifers do not 'NEED' food .. fert ...

i will agree with tom ... that a little of this or that isnt going to hurt anything .. but your wallet ...

i would rather you rake up the fallen needles than add a high nitro fert to decompose them ... after all.. the decomposition process uses nitro ... not P and K .... and high N is not really a tree food .. now is it... and putting down a low formula fert is not going to speed decomp ...

whatever makes you happy is fine with me ...

ken

The Gold Fernspray Cypress has interior dieback to the extreme. I have to hose it off every year because it looks so bad. I'm contemplating removing it from my garden. The green form is just as bad.
One solution I've seen is to prune it severely, but it makes the tree look really unatural.
Here's mine showing flagging. You can see why I might just shovel prune it.
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My spruce, just planted about a month ago. has started turning yellow to brown in the center next to the trunk. It seems to be getting worse as the days go by.

We had a rainy spell, so I didn't water during that. I'm hoping that wasn't the cause of the problem. Maybe days and days of sprinkling and drizzle wasn't enough. I did water real well yesterday and its raining again today.

We also had frost a few times. I hope this is the normal browning for the season plus the transplant shock, and that I'm not loosing my tree. It was a birthday gift.

Anything I can do to improve my chances?
Gin

here's a tiny picture of the situation. The yellowing has browned and spread further and needles are dropping. Hope it's okay.
Gin

Here is a link that might be useful:

Thanks for the in put men. Joe

bumping this.. but i dont have time to find the pix ... maybe later

ken